Future Combat Air System (FCAS) - France/Germany
- Thread starter randomradio
- Start date
33T MTOW, 11T x 2 engine thrust. 14-15T class empty weight.
Essentially SH class with more payload.
Unlikely if common sense is applied.
By the time India enters a clean-sheet program, negotiates, and decides, ADA would have caught up with all the necessary technologies and the FGFA saga would repeat. The idea is to save time by joining an ongoing program. GCAP could become the main target.
Anyway, Dassault itself prefers to continue developing Rafale beyond F5 for now. It's got 2 more decades of growth left, so they can push their next gen program by a decade.
Yep, but it's unclear what we want.
I'm not sure about switching out the avionics though, if we are aiming for a risk-free induction. We could be aiming to implement an F-35I style system instead, alongside local production.
As if your project is moving smoothly, lol.
Franco-German Future Fighter Effort Collapses Over Irreconcilable Differences
Germany and France failed to come to terms on requirements, apparently bringing Europe’s flagship next gen fighter program to an end. Germany and France have failed to reconcile requirements, apparently bringing Europe’s flagship combat air program to an end.www.twz.com
So the FCAS program as we know it is no more.Franco-German Future Fighter Effort Collapses Over Irreconcilable Differences
Germany and France failed to come to terms on requirements, apparently bringing Europe’s flagship next gen fighter program to an end. Germany and France have failed to reconcile requirements, apparently bringing Europe’s flagship combat air program to an end.
After the fall of FCAS fighter, Germany eyes 'realistic' future projects with France - Breaking Defense
After years of squabbles over the development of the sixth-gen fighter jet, the centerpiece of the projected $115 billion effort, Berlin said the companies involved “cannot reach an agreement.”
I'm wondering if the selection of Safran as JV partner in our NG Engine program will have an effect on this. If we are to buy into a 6th gen program, will we choose the same country/consortium that will hold influence over AMCA Mk2 program or a different one, following the eggs & baskets approach?
Of course it'll depend on what the parties are prepared to offer vis a vis integration access & what not, but this is also an interesting dynamic that cannot be ignored.
You mean just having plug-and-play access to the existing system without changing its fundamentals. We could go for it, subject to France agreeing.
But istn't that the same kind of access that they already denied for Rafale?
It's funny to watch France shoot themselves in the foot and the fanboys on various forums, say it's a good thing
It is now a well known fact that the French like to do things their own way and aren't best team players. This is like how it is, for good or bad.
In all fairness, France's requirements were unique as the only CTOL carrier navy in the EU. They split from the EF2000 project in the 1980s for this reason.
Besides, the Germans don't really a new stealth jet anytime soon now that they've bought the F-35. So they can afford to wait.
For India, the only viable path to a 6G jet is through the iterative development of AMCA, imo.
My opinion is that we can fund our own true 6th gen (unlike pseudo 6th gen FCAS/GCAP) , our economy in 2045 will be more than UK+Japan+Italy combined
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My plan:
1) double down on AMCA mk2 and make sure to have a naval mk2 for navy( FCAS(now dead) with tails will not be better than AMCA mk2 with 120kn engine)
2) al51f1 still in its current form is far better than anything European have , we should work with Russians anddevelope 6th gen engine with 200kn wet thrust(al51f1 diameter size) with ip and know how, know why(like french jv), Russians will be happy to co-operate as they dont have funds too
3) develope own 40 tonn 6th gen fighter with large weapon bay so that it can be use for air to ground too and should be tail less
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My definition of 6th gen(which i wanna see in indian 6th gen) :
1) much much better frontal and rear rcs, hence no tail
2) IR stealth, hence flat nozzles and ability to increase bypass ratio in cruising so that less ir signature
3) Much better angled rcs and multi spectrum rcs reduction (belly and opp-belly rcs reduction) , hence much better emw absorbing materials
4) more usable weapon load(hence bigger weapon bay)
5) no need of tankers/awacs in most cases , hence large internal fuel capacity and multi band radars(x + s/l band radars ) and > 400km range for 1msq rcs(photonic and then later quantum radars)
6) hard kill method to shoot down incoming a2a missile (like anti a2a misisle or powerful lasers)
-------------------->
My plan:
1) double down on AMCA mk2 and make sure to have a naval mk2 for navy( FCAS(now dead) with tails will not be better than AMCA mk2 with 120kn engine)
2) al51f1 still in its current form is far better than anything European have , we should work with Russians anddevelope 6th gen engine with 200kn wet thrust(al51f1 diameter size) with ip and know how, know why(like french jv), Russians will be happy to co-operate as they dont have funds too
3) develope own 40 tonn 6th gen fighter with large weapon bay so that it can be use for air to ground too and should be tail less
--------------->
My definition of 6th gen(which i wanna see in indian 6th gen) :
1) much much better frontal and rear rcs, hence no tail
2) IR stealth, hence flat nozzles and ability to increase bypass ratio in cruising so that less ir signature
3) Much better angled rcs and multi spectrum rcs reduction (belly and opp-belly rcs reduction) , hence much better emw absorbing materials
4) more usable weapon load(hence bigger weapon bay)
5) no need of tankers/awacs in most cases , hence large internal fuel capacity and multi band radars(x + s/l band radars ) and > 400km range for 1msq rcs(photonic and then later quantum radars)
6) hard kill method to shoot down incoming a2a missile (like anti a2a misisle or powerful lasers)