Future Combat Air System (FCAS) - France/Germany

Rajput Lion said:
IAF has already given go ahead for Su-57. All the jets that we decide to procure would be with our own radars, mission computers, weapons and much more along with being locally manufactured in India. I know, you don't want to accept it, but give it some time then we all shall know;)
Click to expand...

It's not that I don't wanna accept it, I've been talking of a Su-57 vs F-35 requirement for almost a decade, since 2018, and I only changed my mind in 2024 due to newly discovered hard realities concerning our networking requirements and the ability of the Su-57 to meet that within a reasonable timeframe. Not to mention the fact that the IAF has publicly, repeatedly rejected it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rajput Lion
randomradio said:
It's not that I don't wanna accept it, I've been talking of a Su-57 vs F-35 requirement for almost a decade, since 2018, and I only changed my mind in 2024 due to newly discovered hard realities concerning our networking requirements and the ability of the Su-57 to meet that within a reasonable timeframe. Not to mention the fact that the IAF has publicly, repeatedly rejected it.
Click to expand...
No prob👍. It's just that calculus has changed somewhat since late 2024 and so has IAF's thought process. In the end, forum posts don't regulate their decision and with time we shall know all about it.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: randomradio

Berlin and Paris field negotiating duo to save FCAS fighter jet project​

The €100 billion FCAS project has been stalled for over a year

Emmanuel Macron President of the Republic of France and Friedrich Merz Federal Chancellor of Germany arrive to the European Council summit on March 19, 2026 in Brussels, Belgium. [Pier Marco Tacca/Getty Images]
Germany and France have each fielded one national mediator to help broker a solution for the struggling Future Combat Air System (FCAS) project, aiming to resolve an ongoing dispute by the end of April.

Both governments have struggled to resolve disagreements over the fighter jet component of the future aerial combat system, which will build a European model of the next-generation fighter jet and an air-combat cloud with real-time data sharing. Numerous attempts to set deadlines for a solution have failed. Now, German Chancellor Friedrich Merz and French President Emmanuel Macron are making one last attempt with external mediators.
 
  • Like
Reactions: YoungWolf and babablacksheep
"On Wednesday, Eric Trappier said he was "not a man for co-management".

"We're giving ourselves a little more time -- two to three weeks –- to try to reach an agreement between the French and Germans, between Dassault and Airbus," he said at a forum in Paris.

"I am not in favour of an ambitious industrial project that will serve our armed forces being co-managed. We need a leader."

The FCAS programme was launched in 2017 to replace the Rafale jet and the Eurofighter planes used by Germany and Spain.

It is often seen as a bellwether of defence and security cooperation between France and Germany as the two EU powerhouses seek to put up a united front in the face of a hostile Russia and wavering US security commitment.

Trappier once again stressed that his company was capable of going it alone.

"We are going to build an aircraft to succeed the Rafale. It must be capable of carrying out missions and operating from an aircraft carrier," he said.

"We built the Rafale on our own. We know how to do it on our own, whereas the Eurofighter was built by four countries," he said, referring to Britain, Germany, Italy and Spain."

Source: France's Dassault says 'weeks' left to save Europe warplane project

@Picdelamirand-oil, @randomradio Are the French ready to work with us🤔
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sathya
Hydra said:
Please enlighten me what we can contribute in a co development?
1)Engine, french dont need any indian input
2)EW, they don't need Indian support
3)AESA radar, probably we can have some sort of contribution
Click to expand...
India can provide several inputs for Dassault to update FCAS threat library because of the kind of adversaries we face on our borders.
The data is invaluable and worth it's weight in gold.

Also our own EW game is no joke, co-operation in this arena is very much possible and helpful to both parties.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Kiduva21 and Rajput Lion
Picdelamirand-oil said:
@randomradio doesn't agree to work with us so...and the problem is indian time :D
Click to expand...
But as Mr. Trappier said, Dassault wants to move alone like Rafale programme? Including India could reduce the financial burden of this programme. Personally, I've been advocating for India to collaborate with French for 6th gen fighter project for quite some time. It's going to be a win-win situation for both of our countries. It will also solve our future aircraft-carrier's fighter problem. Let's see.
 
Aniruddha said:
India can provide several inputs for Dassault to update FCAS threat library because of the kind of adversaries we face on our borders.
The data is invaluable and worth it's weight in gold.

Also our own EW game is no joke, co-operation in this arena is very much possible and helpful to both parties.
Click to expand...

Threat libraries are not shared though.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Aniruddha
Picdelamirand-oil said:
@randomradio doesn't agree to work with us so...and the problem is indian time :D
Click to expand...

France will ask for €50B JV, 25 each. And pretty much 80% of NGF and a pretty sizable chunk of combat cloud and drones too.

What we discussed earlier is all irrelevant now because Dassault wants the core job anyway.

The situation is different now. We will have to invest too much, to gain very little workshare, almost nothing, to the point where FGFA will repeat.

In India, only ADA has the expertise to run a program of this scale and they are unlikely to join the JV. They will ask for an independent program of their own, and of course, they will push for requirements that are more advanced than what SCAF will offer, plus about 15 years later than SCAF, just like how AMCA post-dates Su-57 by 15 years. ADA will promise to do it in 15B. This leaves our clueless private sector to carry that load, which they can't. Overall workshare will become 85-15 again, IAF and MoD, already having baulked at the massive bill, will use the no workshare excuse and decide to import again.

ADA's independent program will have takers too, since 11 LCA squadrons will need replacement in 35 years.

Indian time won't be a factors since Dassault will be taking lead anyway. But let's ignore all the above problems. If we end up entering the JV, it will happen by 2030, the jet's already been designed, so we will have it operational by 2040-45, whereas ADA's jet will only start flying by then. In the meantime, ADA will have to develop a stealth jet for the navy, unless even they enter the JV.
 
Rajput Lion said:
But as Mr. Trappier said, Dassault wants to move alone like Rafale programme? Including India could reduce the financial burden of this programme. Personally, I've been advocating for India to collaborate with French for 6th gen fighter project for quite some time. It's going to be a win-win situation for both of our countries. It will also solve our future aircraft-carrier's fighter problem. Let's see.
Click to expand...

I'd prefer we stick to our original plan. ADA develops next gen and IAF imports, while ADA develops a next gen jet for the IN. Even IN can import a stopgap.

Of course, IAF can always enter SCAF or GCAP as a junior partner instead of a 50-50 partner. For example, a 45-45-10 partner with France and Spain holding the majority, with Germany out, or a much smaller 5% partner with the GCAP partners. The same with SCAF, 5%, if SCAF goes ahead with Germany.

That 5-10% will allow us to have our own avonics modifications, perhaps our own combat cloud too, with a long term plan to Indianize most of the software. Plus it's a far more reasonable 5-10B investment.

JVs are all great and everything in order to get capabilities quickly, but if the IAF is expecting transfer of souce codes of core systems by just throwing money around, then they are just dreaming.

It's all intersting though.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rajput Lion
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom