HAL LUH / Ka-226: News and Discussions
- Thread starter Ashwin
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I don't get this criticism of imports when the helicopter in question is in a different class. All the opinions I hear about cancelling Ka-226T in favour of LUH has come only from those who do not fly at all.
Class doesn’t matter. What matters is Role/requirement.
Only primitive organisations focus on Class now a days
Its already discussed multiple times.
SE vs TE jet, Heavy Class vs MWF,active stealth vs passive stealth, Turbojet vs Rurboprop, Air breathing vs dual pulse etc etc.
what’s important is how you achieve the desired goal and not what is used to do so.
PS: never saw (in current times) modern forces like USAF/USN or RAF, French Forces using such stupid classification for procurements
USAF is entirely centered around such a classification, they have been following a two class system for decades. So has the USN, as has the SU and Russia, and China, and of course India.
A class system is used when your army, air force or navy is massive and cannot just operate on a single criteria. Those who dismiss the class system are typically Europeans since they do not have equivalents in a higher class like the Americans or Russians. For example, the Europeans lack a heavy transport, they built something that sits in between the C-130 and C-17 called the A400M Atlas. This is suitable for the Europeans with their small militaries, but it's not suitable for large forces, especially those that also want to transport their battle tanks. So, for India, the Atlas is too light for the strategic role while being too heavy and expensive for tactical roles. Hence we use a three class system, light (C-295), medium (C-130J/An-32 replacement) and strategic (C-17, IL-76).
As for the helicopters, due to our large force size, an unproven indigenous design and varied geography, we have settled on two light helicopters of two different classes. The indigenous one is a true light helicopter with adequate payload for its mission, while the imported one is basically a proven mini-Dhruv, with two engines for increased survivability in battlefields and bad weather conditions and with higher payload. So this creates two different classes for us. And there will naturally be a price difference between the two.
Without a class system, large forces wouldn't be viable. Or the IA and IAF would choose 400+ Ka-226T instead of splitting the buy between a light helicopter and a light-medium hybrid.
The Europeans are largely a one-class force because they don't want to or can't afford anything more than that. Which is why they design just one type of fighter jet or helicopter or transport at a time and replace their old ones with it.
bcos our military is run by accountants who are more interested in seat capacity than our ability to destroy the enemy. So they always achieve greatness by balancing the budget for procurement based on civilian metrics like buy one get one deals.
Number of Chetaals on order for Army > Number of LUHs on order for Army.
LUH is still pre-FOC, one can't place large scale orders without achieving FOC first. This is elementary, mate.
With that logic why are we ordering 200 Ka-226 in bulk? Why is the customisation only after order.
Whatchu talkin' 'bout? The helicopter has been in service since 2002, which by itself is a modernisation of a helicopter called the Ka-26 that flew back in the 60s.
And there is still no order.
Interesting. So you do not know how these procurements work !.
Army/AF has 4-6 different configurations that need to be delivered by HAL for a larger order. Which milestone is called FOC. That certification is built on 12 or so LSP versions that are initially ordered.
Same way. Ka-226 needs customizations which are done after the order is placed. For import, its done on good faith that the company will deliver but for indian its done step by step.
FOC version explained here :
Er... Ka-226 has all those configurations in service already. Any customisation you are referring to are just enhancements at best. This is followed even in domestic programs.
As for LUH, due to its various configurations, it doesn't have a strict FOC version on its own, but HAL expects to get an FOC from CEMILAC in Feb 2022. So there's still quite some time left.
The F-35 followed a concept called concurrency, which is going to be followed for LCA Mk2. But the Americans ended up taking it too far and couldn't stop. Their original plan was to have 150 jets before Block 4, not 600+, possibly going on 800.
The result:
Nearly 200 of America's F-35s May Remain Indefinitely Unfit for Combat (Updated)
As the services buy new planes, older ones may remain permanently unfit for combat.
And that article is only from 2017.
The consequence:
Air Force Could Ditch Oldest F-35 Jets as Part of Fighter Downsizing, General Says
Older versions of the premier stealth jet may be retired instead of receiving expensive upgrades.
We can't afford that kinda circus.
And this is HAL we are talking about, even after FOC we need to see to what extent they will actually meet all requirements. If not, we will have to wait for an Mk1A or Mk2 or even an Mk3. ALH Dhruv took up to Mk3 to meet all requirements and only after that did the IA and IAF start placing large orders. So you can see why the forces are being careful.
No, it is not in Russian service. The Indian army and AF requirements would be specific to them.
The idea of LSP comes from Dhruv experience. To iron out all the user experience/maintenance issues before according SP order.
"There is nothing called FOC in this case, there are 18 roll equipments. which need to be certified for various config like cargo hoops, emergency floats etc"
^^ from above video
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@randomradio
Is having single engine in LUH not risky? I believe cheetah & cheetal are also single engine.
Is having a single engine for a flying machine (can fall down) not risky? Fighter pilots can eject (and only pilot no passengers), but helicopter has 2 pilots are at risk + passengers.
Is having single engine in LUH not risky? I believe cheetah & cheetal are also single engine.
Is having a single engine for a flying machine (can fall down) not risky? Fighter pilots can eject (and only pilot no passengers), but helicopter has 2 pilots are at risk + passengers.
