HAL LUH / Ka-226: News and Discussions

No, it is not in Russian service. The Indian army and AF requirements would be specific to them.

You are missing the point. The Ka-226 is a very old helicopter, the LUH is brand new, no one's ever flown it.

The idea of LSP comes from Dhruv experience. To iron out all the user experience/maintenance issues before according SP order.

"There is nothing called FOC in this case, there are 18 roll equipments. which need to be certified for various config like cargo hoops, emergency floats etc"

^^ from above video

Er... yeah. That's the case with pretty much all helicopters that are multi-mission. There is no one single certification. But there are criterias that need to be met before it can enter service. And that's supposed to be met in Feb 2022, as per HAL. Whether they will stick to that date, we have to see. But it's not yet met those criterias today, hence a large order is not possible. Nobody gives a brand new design large orders right off the bat.

All starting orders are in the single or very low double digits, and it rises up from there. In the meantime design changes are brought in if needed. Even after FOC, design changes are brought in and new versions are made. Which is why it took 5 years after ALH entered service for bulk orders to be placed.

Ka-226T has crossed pretty much all that's expected out of it. What the LUH is supposed to do by Feb 2022, the Russians have already demonstrated a long time ago, in tender evaluations.
 
@randomradio

Is having single engine in LUH not risky? I believe cheetah & cheetal are also single engine.

Is having a single engine for a flying machine (can fall down) not risky? Fighter pilots can eject (and only pilot no passengers), but helicopter has 2 pilots are at risk + passengers.

That's exactly one of the main issues, and why the Ka-226T is necessary, especially in areas like mountains and deserts. Over plains, the LUH is fine. But over mountains having two engines is always the better bet. We have lost almost half of our Cheetah fleet since it entered service. The same won't repeat with a twin-engine helicopter, especially a coaxial rotor design which has more power and stability that makes it easier to control. The forces know what they are doing. The only critics of this helicopter are those who do not fly anything.
 
Army wanted some minor changes to the tail of the LUH apparently. Not sure what the changes are & why the Army wanted it. Anyway, the changes were made & the helo was tested in Ladakh over the last few days.
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Today the Army tweeted this:


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The initial order remains at 12 units, 6 each for the IA & IAF. Delivery of the initial lot are scheduled to begin by August 2022. Hopefully the MoD can order the planned 187 units by early next year.
 
Army wanted some minor changes to the tail of the LUH apparently. Not sure what the changes are & why the Army wanted it. Anyway, the changes were made & the helo was tested in Ladakh over the last few days.
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Today the Army tweeted this:


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The initial order remains at 12 units, 6 each for the IA & IAF. Delivery of the initial lot are scheduled to begin by August 2022. Hopefully the MoD can order the planned 187 units by early next year.
Good platform to install a machine gun, few Anti tank missiles for infantry support and insertion and possibly another mod for special op purposes like those in Call of Duty ops.
 
The initial order remains at 12 units, 6 each for the IA & IAF. Delivery of the initial lot are scheduled to begin by August 2022. Hopefully the MoD can order the planned 187 units by early next year.
Perfect number. Its like these guys are shopping in Sabzi bazar.
Bhaiya Aadhe darzan LUH de dena, taza wala.
What a pathetic joke they are making out of themselves.
Pilots are getting killed every week while top brass is looking for ways to import arms (and possibly earning bribes, free travel and other favours etc)
 
Good platform to install a machine gun, few Anti tank missiles for infantry support and insertion and possibly another mod for special op purposes like those in Call of Duty ops.
Machine guns is possible, ATGM is not practical. Its not just mounting the missile but also targeting system & fire control systems. Spec Ops modification is possible & quite likely.
Perfect number. Its like these guys are shopping in Sabzi bazar.
Bhaiya Aadhe darzan LUH de dena, taza wala.
:ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO:
They are making joke with HAL and pilots lives by ordering exactly a dozen LUHs combined. Even a county police in US often has more choppers that that
From their point of view its about "proven systems" vs. "yet-to-be-proven systems". The Chetaks/Cheetals etc. are proven systems & thus get repeat orders, LUH is yet to be proven in operational use. They could cite the example of the ALH Dhruv which has seen large scale inductions in to the services after initial hesitations. You could say the services were waiting for the Dhruv to be "proven". That helo has had crashes too. Yet there are 300+ Dhruvs in service with an additional 120 or so on order. The most common type of helo with the IAF is the Mi-17, the Dhruv will eventually take that position. It is already the most common helo with the Army.

Of course a new product LUH will never be proven if you don't buy it, there you have a classic chicken & egg problem. It becomes a systematic problem when the services think all Indian developers/companies are rookies & all foreign companies are super/mega/hyper experts. This is one of the many problems we need to fix.

Having said that I am fairly certain the LUH wont have as much difficulties in getting larger orders as the Dhruv. Dhruv had to struggle for a decade. LUH production will probably limp for a year or two.
 
Good platform to install a machine gun, few Anti tank missiles for infantry support and insertion and possibly another mod for special op purposes like those in Call of Duty ops.
IR guided manpads is a real threat to this during scout mission types.

If the aircraft is given some kind of lite version of the self protection suite that goes with ALH MK3, that would be very commendable.

And a cabin mounted general purpose machine gun would be fine.
 
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Make this chopper a co axil one if possible. That will give it a better weight lifting capabilities. It is the time that India should start making co axial rotor chopper. Engine power can be fully utilized for useful purpose rather than using part of the power to balance the torque generated by main Rotor. This is the reason why Russian chopper lifts higher load. Co axial rotor design are very silent and produces muvh lesser noice compared to normal popular design.
 
IR guided manpads is a real threat to this during scout mission types.

If the aircraft is given some kind of lite version of the self protection suite that goes with ALH MK3, that would be very commendable.

And a cabin mounted general purpose machine gun would be fine.
specially those Chinese antiques what they locally produce as Anza are very cheap too. They even give
these to local terrorists too (A few ANA helis are shot by shot by Talis using some MAN PADS
So yes you are correct
Make this chopper a co axil one if possible. That will give it a better weight lifting capabilities. It is the time that India should start making co axial rotor chopper. Engine power can be fully utilized for useful purpose rather than using part of the power to balance the torque generated by main Rotor. This is the reason why Russian chopper lifts higher load. Co axial rotor design are very silent and produces much lesser noice compared to normal popular design.
Coaxial Rotor is twice heavy, much more complex and maintenance hungry system. Im not sure if the benefits outweigh the cons in current form, having seen too many of them on Ka Helis going boom while taking off or landing.
And we could use electric motor in tail to cut weight and complexity as used by newer versions of Bell civilian helis
 
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specially those Chinese antiques what they locally produce as Anza are very cheap too. They even give
these to local terrorists too (A few ANA helis are shot by shot by Talis using some MAN PADS
So yes you are correct

Coaxial Rotor is twice heavy, much more complex and maintenance hungry system. Im not sure if the benefits outweigh the cons in current form, having seen too many of them on Ka Helis going boom while taking off or landing.
And we could use electric motor in tail to cut weight and complexity as used by newer versions of Bell civilian helis

Look at the KA226 and KA 52 cjoppers of Russia and phrnominal weight they lift compared to their engine power. This happens because of their co axial design. That is why India is impressed with KA226.
 
Look at the KA226 and KA 52 cjoppers of Russia and phrnominal weight they lift compared to their engine power. This happens because of their co axial design. That is why India is impressed with KA226.
A lot of experimental US choppers have don impressive things like weightlifting, speed, altitude etc but still got rejected by DOD for much more conventional designs.
Reliability and maintainability matter much for for operational use.
 
Perfect number. Its like these guys are shopping in Sabzi bazar.
Bhaiya Aadhe darzan LUH de dena, taza wala.
What a pathetic joke they are making out of themselves.
Pilots are getting killed every week while top brass is looking for ways to import arms (and possibly earning bribes, free travel and other favours etc)

The first order in a development cycle is always small. They define the final product during this time.
 
The first order in a development cycle is always small. They define the final product during this time.
I believe its due to trust deficit between HAL and Armed Forces. Otherwise IAF and IA loves to purchase unproven products in large number like those countless Mig abominations, Jags,M2000 or even Su 27/30 or those monstrous Helos which sit on Tarmac most of time for maintainance related issues.
Indian Army was first to purchase huge number of T90 even before their Induction into Russian Army in any meaningful number.
 
I believe its due to trust deficit between HAL and Armed Forces. Otherwise IAF and IA loves to purchase unproven products in large number like those countless Mig abominations, Jags,M2000 or even Su 27/30 or those monstrous Helos which sit on Tarmac most of time for maintainance related issues.
Indian Army was first to purchase huge number of T90 even before their Induction into Russian Army in any meaningful number.

The magic words I used were "development cycle". When the T-90 was inducted, it was already in service.

When something comes out of development, the initial order is very small. Either single digits or early double digits.

Like 8 LCA, 12 Su-57, 6 Mig-35, 8 F-15EX, 2 F-35 etc.

In December, Congress approved a $985 million request by the Air Force to buy the first eight F-15EX aircraft, with two to be delivered by the end of the year.

While test work continues, the defense ministry has signed up to buy just six MiG-35s, ordered in August 2018 under the State Armament Program.

That's how development happens.
 
The magic words I used were "development cycle". When the T-90 was inducted, it was already in service.

When something comes out of development, the initial order is very small. Either single digits or early double digits.

Like 8 LCA, 12 Su-57, 6 Mig-35, 8 F-15EX, 2 F-35 etc.

In December, Congress approved a $985 million request by the Air Force to buy the first eight F-15EX aircraft, with two to be delivered by the end of the year.

While test work continues, the defense ministry has signed up to buy just six MiG-35s, ordered in August 2018 under the State Armament Program.

That's how development happens.
In that case I like Soviat style of ordering in Hundreds and thousands even if the product is crap like those Tu22 bombers or those infamous Tu 154 passenger planes
:p
 
In that case I like Soviat style of ordering in Hundreds and thousands even if the product is crap like those Tu22 bombers or those infamous Tu 154 passenger planes
:p

It doesn't matter, the very first order placed is only in single digits, typically half a squadron. Big orders happen only after FOC.
 
Flight tests of the modernized version of the Ka-226T light helicopter have begun

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Deeply modernized Ka-226T light helicopter, which is being developed by the Russian Helicopters holding of the State Corporation Rostec, has begun flight tests and made its first flight at the flight test complex of the National Helicopter Engineering Center Mil and Kamov ". This is the first Russian rotorcraft, the design documentation of which was fully digitalized. The first prototype (presumably, OO1) of the modernized Ka-226T helicopter, version 226.54, called "Climber" (Climber).

Andrey Boginsky, General Director of the Russian Helicopters holding, reported on the progress of the project to modernize the Ka-226T light helicopter during a working meeting with President of the Russian Federation Vladimir Putin. For the first time, the upgraded helicopter was presented at the international aerospace show MAKS-2021, and the international premiere of the updated Ka-226T will take place at the upcoming Dubai Airshow 2021, which will take place from November 14 to 18 in Dubai (UAE).

“The newest Ka-226T is the first helicopter in Russia, all design documentation of which was conducted digitally. This made it possible to significantly reduce the time to create the machine and to start flight tests in a short time. At the end of this week, the updated Ka-226T will debut at international exhibitions as part of Dubai Airshow 2021, and we are confident that it will arouse genuine interest among foreign customers due to its excellent flight performance, allowing it to operate at altitudes up to 6.5 kilometers, versatility, and convenience. and safety ”, - said in the aviation cluster of Rostec.

Due to its key feature - its adaptability to high altitude flights - the Ka-226T modernization project received the working title "Climber". It differs from previous models of the Ka-226 family by a new airframe and fuselage design with significantly increased aerodynamic characteristics. The body is made using modern lightweight materials. The carrying system of the machine was also significantly updated - the Ka-226T received a new main rotor column, blades and main gearbox, a shock-resistant accident-resistant fuel system was installed that meets increased safety requirements.

Also, the helicopter is equipped with a new complex of flight-navigation and radio communication equipment, it can optionally be equipped with oxygen equipment, ballonets, air conditioning and heating system.

The Ka-226T has a coaxial rotor design, which provides good controllability in rarefied air, resistance to strong crosswinds, high climb rate, the ability to take off and land on sites located at high altitudes. Also, the Ka-226T helicopter is highly effective when flying over water surfaces. It can take off and land on the deck of even small sea vessels.

The machine is distinguished by a low vibration level, ease and simplicity of control, the ability to take off and land on sites of minimal dimensions (including in urban infrastructure), high hovering accuracy even when working with a load on an external sling, safety of passengers boarding when the propellers are working.

Serial production of the upgraded Ka-226T helicopter is planned to begin in 2022 at the Ulan-Ude Aviation Plant in close cooperation with the Kumertau Aviation Production Enterprise.


On the part of bmpd, we point out that, as you can understand, the modernized Ka-226T "Climber" (Сlimber) in performance 226.54 is actually a modified Ka-226T under the requirements of the Indian side within the framework of the planned agreement on the supply of these helicopters to India and on the organization of joint production in India. The first prototype of the modernized Ka-226T "Alpinist" (Сlimber), performance 226.54 (presumably, OO1 sample) was first demonstrated in July 2021 atInternational Aviation and Space Salon MAKS-2021, and has now begun flight tests.


Work on the ROC "Modernization of the Ka-226T helicopter" at JSC Kamov (now JSC National Helicopter Engineering Center Mil and Kamov) was started under the contract dated July 2017. In June 2018, Kamov JSC, within the framework of this ROC, signed an agreement on the assembly at UUAZ of three prototypes of the Ka-226T helicopter in performance 226.54 for India (serial numbers OO1, OO2, OO3), with delivery in June-July 2021. Work on the construction of two of these experimental helicopters at the UUAZ was reported in 2020, and now, apparently, flight tests of the first of these experimental helicopters (apparently, OO1) have begun.
 
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