HAL LUH / Ka-226: News and Discussions

Bad analogy. We are not buying Gripen/F-16 because we are going for MWF already.

And Ka-226T and LUH are not competitive. The Ka-226T is twin engined and will be used over mountains while LUH has only 1 engine and will be used over plains.

The Ka-226T is a bigger and heavier helicopter, so it's more useful over mountains. Particularly its modular design which allows the addition of different cabins for different roles. Ka-226T can also carry twice the payload as the LUH and also has more range.

The rear door also is a huge advantage over a side door. So you get much more space to work with.
3cf20c76b9fabe5039173ce089ded397_900.jpg


to-replace-ageing-cheetah-fleet.jpg


Especially over mountains where space may be a premium. So it's easier for the crew to operate in dangerous areas where the LUH with its long tail cannot. This gives more advantage than even the Chinook does. The coaxial rotors also offer more stability and is much easier to fly, which is very useful in the changing wind conditions over mountains.

It's actually the LUH that's in danger, not the other way round. But of course HAL has been successful with helicopters, so there won't be a problem as such. The order will be shared between Ka-226T and LUH.

The only reason IAF/IA have agreed to induct LUH is because it's Indian and cheap. Or else they would have gone for Ka-226T for the whole requirement.

Overall there's no competition. It's like two different classes of helicopters.
The requirement is for single engine light utility helicopter to replace Chetak and Cheetah in all the current and future projected roles.

The twin engine might be an advantage in operations at sea, but not a necessity.

And for use in mountains, HAL LUH will be capable enough. There is no current required role which the HAL LUH cannot do.

For the modularity of Ka226T, etc we can very well use our Dhruv or Mi17 if required.

I still wish and pray that this deal falls through.
 
So Ka226T will be completely manufactured in Russia? We will get nothing in terms of experience or tech from this deal?

Most of the helicopter will be made in India. It will be done in phases.

The plan was to help private industry gain experience, but failed due to bureaucratic hurdles. HAL won't gain much from this in terms of experience since they are already more experienced. But this helicopter will help HAL gain new markets, since they will now have two classes of helicopters to offer. So it's a great way to generate revenue.

Now the focus for private industry will be the NUH.

We have got dhruv in that role?

Dhruv's too heavy for this particular role. That's why it was rejected by all three services.

Co-axial rotors ? We don't make those & they seem to have a lot of advantages. HAL is already testing helo engines and they can design/make the rest of the helicopter parts themselves. If we get the know-how of co-axial rotors, I'd consider this a successful deal.

Dunno if production experience will help generate research points. Just making the rotors will not help us develop the FBW system after all. We have to do it the hard way.

I still wish and pray that this deal falls through.

Too late for that. More like impossible since the beginning.
 
Dhruv's too heavy for this particular role. That's why it was rejected by all three services.
Isn't LUH basically a single-engine version of Dhruv? And dhruv is already performing all the roles you mentioned above so how is it different?
 
Last edited:
Please correct me (and my 2 paise)

The need to replace the Cheetah and Chetak and its variants - pretty much on an urgent basis - correct?

1) We have a certified frame with deliveries starting at the end of 2020 (subjected to signing of the agreement)

vs

2) Yet to receive IOC , possible to start production only at the end of 2020 with deliveries starting at 2021/22 (subjected to certification)

The LUH is and will be an excellent addition to the armed forces - but the same question that comes to any indigenous product (seen in other threads eg : HTT40) - how long does one makes the armed forces wait ? - hence the Ka226
 
  • Agree
Reactions: randomradio
Isn't LUH basically a single-engine version of Dhruv? And dhruv is already performing all the roles you mentioned above so how is it different?

It's a much bigger helicopter, so it has limited uses in constricted spaces.

For example, Dhruv can carry 16 passengers while LUH can carry 6.
 
Please correct me (and my 2 paise)

The need to replace the Cheetah and Chetak and its variants - pretty much on an urgent basis - correct?

1) We have a certified frame with deliveries starting at the end of 2020 (subjected to signing of the agreement)

vs

2) Yet to receive IOC , possible to start production only at the end of 2020 with deliveries starting at 2021/22 (subjected to certification)

The LUH is and will be an excellent addition to the armed forces - but the same question that comes to any indigenous product (seen in other threads eg : HTT40) - how long does one makes the armed forces wait ? - hence the Ka226

Exactly. It's weird that instead of supporting the forces and the country, people end up supporting some random company instead.

Nobody is interested in the lives that can be saved by quicker induction, people are more interested in the bank balance of some company and massage their own egos while they are at it.

And nobody has a clue about why the forces make the decisions they make. People living in their own world.
 
On trial, light-utility copter lands in Ladakh

The light-utility helicopter (LUH), produced by Hindustan Aeronautics Limited, has undertaken a flight at 18,000 feet and landed at Daulat Baig Oldie (DBO), the highest-landing ground in northern Ladakh at an altitude of 16,890 feet.
The single-engine copter, in its final stages of development, had undertaken a winter flight at 20,000 feet. The flight to the DBO, landing there and then taking off was part of its summer trials.
The rarity of air at higher altitudes puts pressure on copter engines. Summers are tougher than winter conditions for copter flying hence, the trial was carried out in ‘peak summer’. The certification of the copter has been done and the flight to northern Ladakh was a success, sources in HAL said.
The successful flight makes the copter ‘Siachen worthy’— one of the requirements of the Indian Air Force and the Army. The Army will procure 126 copters and the IAF 61 from HAL.
The LUHs will replace the obsolescent fleet of Chetak and Cheetah helicopters. These are based on the 1950s-designed Alouette Aérospatiale 315B Lama of France. These will be deployed for reconnaissance and surveillance roles and as a light transport helicopter. The maximum speed of the LUH is expected to be 220 kmph, with a service ceiling of 6.5 km.
The LUH is a 3-ton class new generation helicopter designed and developed by Rotary Wing Research and Design Center of HAL. It is lighter than the 5.5-tonne Dhruv, a twin-engine copter inducted into the forces.
 
Exactly. It's weird that instead of supporting the forces and the country, people end up supporting some random company instead.

Nobody is interested in the lives that can be saved by quicker induction, people are more interested in the bank balance of some company and massage their own egos while they are at it.

And nobody has a clue about why the forces make the decisions they make. People living in their own world.

Why are we waiting until LUH matures.. And Then buying Kamov..

At the least should have bought 3 years back, if the intent is early induction.. For the Forces.

Even now it may take another 2 years...
 
Please correct me (and my 2 paise)

The need to replace the Cheetah and Chetak and its variants - pretty much on an urgent basis - correct?

1) We have a certified frame with deliveries starting at the end of 2020 (subjected to signing of the agreement)

vs

2) Yet to receive IOC , possible to start production only at the end of 2020 with deliveries starting at 2021/22 (subjected to certification)

The LUH is and will be an excellent addition to the armed forces - but the same question that comes to any indigenous product (seen in other threads eg : HTT40) - how long does one makes the armed forces wait ? - hence the Ka226
This logic was sound 4-5 years ago. Now both HTT-40 and LUH are on the verge of IOC. If forces can wait last 10-15 years they can definitely do 2 more.

Now we have to look at it as a middle ground. With two concurrent production line, HAL will be producing 30-40 light helicopters per year. It will make up for the time lost in the long term. HTT-40 is also a middle ground. 75 PC-7 import remaining all Indian made.
 
  • Like
Reactions: _Anonymous_
Why are we waiting until LUH matures.. And Then buying Kamov..

At the least should have bought 3 years back, if the intent is early induction.. For the Forces.

Even now it may take another 2 years...

There were problems during negotiations which delayed the signature.

But first helicopter will be delivered in a year after contract signature, so at least the inductions will be quick.
 
This logic was sound 4-5 years ago. Now both HTT-40 and LUH are on the verge of IOC. If forces can wait last 10-15 years they can definitely do 2 more.

Now we have to look at it as a middle ground. With two concurrent production line, HAL will be producing 30-40 light helicopters per year. It will make up for the time lost in the long term. HTT-40 is also a middle ground. 75 PC-7 import remaining all Indian made.
Noted

You statement holds true BUT is SUBJECTED to when the IOC is achieved correct!?

Sooooo.... As in the other tread - Lets wait till 2021 for the HTT40 and 2020 for the LUH!
 

Good footage, just wish it was of higher quality. Notice those 4 mechanical indicators sitting on top of the computer/display panels ? Those are there in case the avionics have a failure, these aren't going to be there in production models.

Also notice the presence of a "Get you home" panel on top of the 4 indicators. That is an added redundancy to a similar panel present in the avionics. The reason for adding another one is added safety in a prototype , in case something goes wrong.

There is also an orange coloured air speed probe.

Oh wait another video :

 
  • Like
Reactions: GuardianRED
HAL’s Light Utility Helicopter Clears Tests At World’s Highest Landing Ground

By Shiv Aroor Sep 05 2019, 1:37 pm
1567687507916.png


In a major step for Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd’s Light Utility Helicopter (LUH), a prototype has just completed high altitude flight trials at the world’s highest landing ground — Daulat Beg Olde in northern Ladakh.

In a statement today HAL said, “All planned tests were successfully demonstrated. A comprehensive test plan was executed at Leh (3300m) in temperatures upto International Standard Atmosphere (ISA) +32 degree C which included envelope expansion, performance and flying qualities. The LUH then lifted off from Leh and demonstrated its hot and high hover performance at Daulat Beg Oldie (DBO) Advanced Landing Ground (ALG) at 5000m followed by another forward helipad (5500m at ISA +27degree C). While these extreme weather conditions imposed flight restrictions on all other civil and military aircraft, LUH flights were unhindered as it is designed for such operations.”

The trials were carried out by HAL, Army and IAF test pilots from August 24 to September 2. The crucial high altitude capability demonstration is indispensable to Indian rotorcraft requirements, since large numbers are deployed in Ladakh and the north-east to supply forward posts along the borders.

“The LUH has complied with all the requirements of the users and with the completion of hot and high altitude testing, it is close to operational clearance certification,” said HAL chairman R Madhavan today.

LUH1.jpg


The LUH involved in the Ladakh trials hopped from Bengaluru, its home, to Leh over a period of three days. stopping at several civil and military airfields along the way. According to HAL, during the course of ferrying and trials at high altitude, the chopper revealed high reliability without any service support.


“The composite trials team included designers, flight test crew of HAL, the Indian Air Force and Indian Army. Representatives of CEMILAC and ORDAQA witnessed the trials for military and civil certification requirements respectively. The flights were completed by an HAL flight test team led by Wg Cdr (Retd) Unni Pillai, CTP(RW) and accompanied by Wg Cdr (Retd) Anil Bhambani, Gp Capt (Retd) Pupinder Singh, Gp Capt V Panwar, Wg Cdr A Jena, a representative from the Air Force Gp Capt R Dubey and Lt Col R Grewal from the Indian Army,” said the HAL statement.

1567687612115.png


The LUH, incidentally, completed hot weather trials at Nagpur in 2018, cold weather trials at Leh in 2019, sea level trials at Chennai in 2018 and at Puducherry in 2019. The LUH is being developed to meet a requirement of 187 helicopters for the Indian Air Force and Indian Army, approximately half of the total requirement, the remainder of which will be met by 200 Ka-226T helicopters that are to be built by the HAL-Kamov joint venture in Tumkuru near Bengaluru.

1567687648525.png



https://www.livefistdefence.com/201...s-tests-at-worlds-highest-landing-ground.html