Imported Missile Shield a risk

[pachawry]

And NGO funding wins election, why did they loose in 2014? Did CIA scale back funding after 2010 to elect Modi then? I would refrain from commenting on (common) sense, given every post in ref is devoid of it.

That is because BJP used counter strategy. The 2G scam, coalgate scam, CWG scam, PAC agitation etc caused massive anger against UPA. CIA could not control the amount of pressure applied by RSS. The campaign done by RSS and BJP was overwhelming and nothing could overcome it. CIA indulges in deception based campaign but when important issues are raised, they will not have answers.

ISI of Pakistan was also involved in collaboration of USA along with the GCC petroleum producers.

 

[Milspec]

First of all, military equipments are meant for political usage, not traded on open market. So, if the west has gains from containing India, they will help Pakistan. USA has done this in the past. Now it may be difficult as India has become too strong on its own feet but even then the provision of intelligence information. Don't be too sure that India may not wage war with USA or UK.

Actually Military equipment is meant for military use first.

I wont bother replying on the aspects of waging war with UK or US. That is quite moronic.

Also, it is not in Indian interest to import weapons rather than do it indigenously. India already is making QRSAM and there is no reason to get NASAMS for protection.

QRSAM is still not ready for induction, by same logic there was no need for T90's as Arjun was in development, how did that pan out? If MoD has decided to buy a system they see a need for it, or are you alleging Modi government of a scam?

S400 involves ToT license from Russia and Indian officials have said that negotiations for ToT are on the way. India wants to develop the missiles in India. If you are simply thinking that India will buy hyper expensive items in limited numbers for actually winning war, you are insane. Wars can only be won by quantity.

Now you are just countering your own claim of S400 soley being bought to "validate" XRSAM?
make your mind.

About, verification from imported items, I meant to say that the features and quality is compared to make it as good as possible. One can't simply know where is the peak limit or the different ideas and methods of working which can be obtained from imports.

Competent engineers and scientists can. That is why "Validation" is done through Initial launch containment for every dynamic system. Subsequent user trials are done for end user validation.
Quality is driven through processes control not by comparison.

Why do you think USA does not export to CHina? Because USA knows that China will plagiarise.

For that exact reason that you claim India can get access to the systems it wants and china cant.

India had RD33 as alternative option. F404 was not necessary

Now you are taking out of your behind, Neither ADA nor IAF was ever interested in RD33 as an alternative.

 

[Ankit Kumar]

NASAMS is in the class of SPYDER and QRSAM. When we have both of the latter, its not prudent to invest in a 3rd type. If there is a requirement of a short range quick reaction SAM to defend against drones, helicopters ,etc , put up a open tender. Let QR SAM and SPYDER too compete.

 

[Milspec]

That is because BJP used counter strategy. The 2G scam, coalgate scam, CWG scam, PAC agitation etc caused massive anger against UPA. CIA could not control the amount of pressure applied by RSS. The campaign done by RSS and BJP was overwhelming and nothing could overcome it. CIA indulges in deception based campaign but when important issues are raised, they will not have answers.

ISI of Pakistan was also involved in collaboration of USA along with the GCC petroleum producers.

How about a reference for one single allegation of this manohar chitrakatha?

 

[_Anonymous_]

How about a reference for one single allegation of this manohar chitrakatha?

It's manohar kahaaniyaan. Those were innocent days . Kids nowadays expect better . Hence , SDRF . Correct me if I'm wrong ? @randomradio

 

[pachawry]

Actually Military equipment is meant for military use first.

I wont bother replying on the aspects of waging war with UK or US. That is quite moronic.

Political aspect involves military aspect! I am only saying that defence equipment is not for anonymous purchases in the open market. USA can involve itself in Pakistan and Arab affair due to petrodollars. When the world is woking on petroleum, I am not sure by what insane logic you came to the conclusion that war with USA is moronic!

QRSAM is still not ready for induction, by same logic there was no need for T90's as Arjun was in development, how did that pan out? If MoD has decided to buy a system they see a need for it, or are you alleging Modi government of a scam?

T90 is made in India fully. So, India bought it. Arjun, on the other hand, was having lot of imported components and its engine is not yet developed. So, which is more indigenous? Arjun or T90?

Now you are just countering your own claim of S400 soley being bought to "validate" XRSAM?
make your mind.

I may have erred in grammar or langauge but I have been consistent that S400 is to assist in XR SAM. It is likely that India needs the missile technology

Competent engineers and scientists can. That is why "Validation" is done through Initial launch containment for every dynamic system. Subsequent user trials are done for end user validation.
Quality is driven through processes control not by comparison.

This takes too much of time whereas ToT or study makes it quicker. I am shocked that you think ToT or study is useless!

For that exact reason that you claim India can get access to the systems it wants and china cant.

USA needs India due to the strategic interests of IOR, especially since the rift between USA and Arabs are growing. Arabs have asked USA to leave and Trump officially stated that NATO will be leaving and Arab NATO will take its place. Does USA need China for anything? If you thought USA gives anything to India out of benign nature, you are wrong

How about a reference for one single allegation of this manohar chitrakatha?

The NGO funding, character of ministers in UPA like those of Hamid Ansari, Khurshid etc shows circumstantial evidence

 

[Milspec]

This takes too much of time whereas ToT or study makes it quicker. I am shocked that you think ToT or study is useless!

There is no need to assume on my behalf. What you are claiming is not ToT, I have lead multiple tech transfer and NPD programs, one of them being the SU30MKI Phase II itself. No where have I ever mentioned that ToT is useless.

Your claim that foriegn systems are being procured to validate Indian systems is absolutely baseless. Don't even try to suggest that a project lead, you will just be the butt of all jokes in that conversation.

And no matter how much you want to peddle this theory, there isn't one example in the history of any Indian developed dynamic system which has been validated based on studying a foreign system. That is not how validation works, I have been doing this as my bread and butter for a long time. I am trying to tell you in a nice way, system validation happens through a test program, that is what I do and have been for a long time. Testing out a missile system is a very complicated project itself, you cant just open a similar missile system and start evaluation your own system that is not how a design cycle works.

Plagiarizing is the most shitty way of designing anything. Period. Most of the times the process of getting a product from concept to market is more valuable that the product itself.

 

[Milspec]

The NGO funding, character of ministers in UPA like those of Hamid Ansari, Khurshid etc shows circumstantial evidence

By Kurshid, I am guessing you mean Salman Kurshid , If you or the government of India knows that he is in anyway complicit in foreign power destabilizing Indian electorate, and no action is being taken against him, not even a charge-sheet being filed. Doesn't it make Modi government complicit by aiding a abetting treason against the state?
.
In other words no reference towards any of the theories you are basing your arguments on, untill you do, have a good one. Me Out

 

[pachawry]

There is no need to assume on my behalf. What you are claiming is not ToT, I have lead multiple tech transfer and NPD programs, one of them being the SU30MKI Phase II itself. No where have I ever mentioned that ToT is useless.

Your claim that foriegn systems are being procured to validate Indian systems is absolutely baseless. Don't even try to suggest that a project lead, you will just be the butt of all jokes in that conversation.

And no matter how much you want to peddle this theory, there isn't one example in the history of any Indian developed dynamic system which has been validated based on studying a foreign system. That is not how validation works, I have been doing this as my bread and butter for a long time. I am trying to tell you in a nice way, system validation happens through a test program, that is what I do and have been for a long time. Testing out a missile system is a very complicated project itself, you cant just open a similar missile system and start evaluation your own system that is not how a design cycle works.

Plagiarizing is the most shitty way of designing anything. Period. Most of the times the process of getting a product from concept to market is more valuable that the product itself.

Please understand that reinventing the wheel is a very stupid thing to do. Technology is to be understood and applied as per use. Trial and error to research takes too much time and hence we use quick way of studying working projects. You must be living in fantasy to think studying and understanding idea is a bad thing

By Kurshid, I am guessing you mean Salman Kurshid , If you or the government of India knows that he is in anyway complicit in foreign power destabilizing Indian electorate, and no action is being taken against him, not even a charge-sheet being filed. Doesn't it make Modi government complicit by aiding a abetting treason against the state?
.
In other words no reference towards any of the theories you are basing your arguments on, untill you do, have a good one. Me Out

The reason is that India needs their oil. Making it public will result in extreme anger and people are not known to be patient or well coordinated. The problem here is with natural resource. If India was Russia, then India did not have to care as India would be self sufficient. But when India depends on oil supply from Arabs, we have to keep calm. The choice is clear -
1) Get oil supply for the time being by keeping quiet and handling things without openly telling the details while preparing slowly
2) Declare the truth and create anger immediately leadin to war.

India is string enough to cause great harm and massive infrastructural damage but the problem is that the world relies on Arab oil and since oil is a natural resource, it is beyond human control to make it. So, we choose to wait for oil to exhaust while making it clear that oil has to be supplied to India and any political interference will be pre-empted brutally. By doing so, we buy time and also maintain stability in international order. As of now, there is a need for Arabs due to the presence of oil and hence it is a cat and mouse game. It is called truce.

 

[vstol Jockey]

It appears to me that most posters here have not understood what we are doing as far as BMD is concerned. The short range systems and how they blend with India developed 100% BMD has not been understood by anyone here.

 

[Milspec]

Please understand that reinventing the wheel is a very stupid thing to do. Technology is to be understood and applied as per use. Trial and error to research takes too much time and hence we use quick way of studying working projects. You must be living in fantasy to think studying and understanding idea is a bad thing

Validation of any indigenous defence system doesn't happen by comparison with an imported system. Show one example of such system. end of discussion..

The reason is that India needs their oil. Making it public will result in extreme anger and people are not known to be patient or well coordinated. The problem here is with natural resource. If India was Russia, then India did not have to care as India would be self sufficient. But when India depends on oil supply from Arabs, we have to keep calm. The choice is clear -
1) Get oil supply for the time being by keeping quiet and handling things without openly telling the details while preparing slowly
2) Declare the truth and create anger immediately leadin to war.

India is string enough to cause great harm and massive infrastructural damage but the problem is that the world relies on Arab oil and since oil is a natural resource, it is beyond human control to make it. So, we choose to wait for oil to exhaust while making it clear that oil has to be supplied to India and any political interference will be pre-empted brutally. By doing so, we buy time and also maintain stability in international order. As of now, there is a need for Arabs due to the presence of oil and hence it is a cat and mouse game. It is called truce.

So you alleged UPA of Treason and NDA of collusion without a single reference. Sure I buy it!

 

[pachawry]

Validation of any indigenous defence system doesn't happen by comparison with an imported system. Show one example of such system. end of discussion..

Not just validation but including upgradation, mistake correction etc. Indian swordfish radar was made from Israeli Greenpine radar, for example

So you alleged UPA of Treason and NDA of collusion without a single reference. Sure I buy it!

Is this supposed to be funny? Do you know the meaning of collusion? You should first get a dictionary before using big words. You want reference to things which can't be officially accepted? Or is your mind so deranged that you don't accept anything that is not official as correct regardless of how consistent the reasoning is? Some random official word stands more than scientific or statistical reasoning? If that is the case, there is no point speaking to you. You are only fit to follow books and rigid dogmas.

 

[Milspec]

Not just validation but including up-gradation, mistake correction etc. Indian swordfish radar was made from Israeli Greenpine radar, for example

Your claim is XRSAM > Validation which now has changed to (upgradation, mistake correction etc.) will be done by S400. For that XRSAM has to be an exact releplica or an upgrade of S400 which it is not.
Swordfish was not upgraded or validated based on Greenpine but developed directly from greenpine. Before greenpine, swordfish did not exist et all. Similarly SFDR is already in development and not contingent upon meteor. And guess what they are "testing" (keyword here) for validation. So your greenpine example doesn't back your claim in this instance. You cannot claim a development of system as plagiarized copy, (maybe in some other forums).

Is this supposed to be funny? Do you know the meaning of collusion? You should first get a dictionary before using big words. You want reference to things which can't be officially accepted? Or is your mind so deranged that you don't accept anything that is not official as correct regardless of how consistent the reasoning is? Some random official word stands more than scientific or statistical reasoning? If that is the case, there is no point speaking to you. You are only fit to follow books and rigid dogmas.

Actually it is quite funny:

You are claiming 10 years of UPA's dispensation of treason of highest count. and accusing present NDA of covering up the same by not prosecuting a single member on purpose to serve some make belief foreign policy goal.

If that's not funny, i don't know what is.
Whats next Modi is a "martian" or rahul gandhi is hitler's genetic clone?

 

[pachawry]

Your claim is XRSAM > Validation which now has changed to (upgradation, mistake correction etc.) will be done by S400. For that XRSAM has to be an exact releplica or an upgrade of S400 which it is not.
Swordfish was not upgraded or validated based on Greenpine but developed directly from greenpine. Before greenpine, swordfish did not exist et all. Similarly SFDR is already in development and not contingent upon meteor. And guess what they are "testing" (keyword here) for validation. So your greenpine example doesn't back your claim in this instance. You cannot claim a development of system as plagiarized copy, (maybe in some other forums).

Yeah, as if a concept can't be refined with added knowledge. In the domain of electronics and software, there are many mor ethings than just mechanical items. Even chemical or fuel ugrade of missiles can be done if better fuel is foundl

Actually it is quite funny:

You are claiming 10 years of UPA's dispensation of treason of highest count. and accusing present NDA of covering up the same by not prosecuting a single member on purpose to serve some make belief foreign policy goal.

If that's not funny, i don't know what is.
Whats next Modi is a "martian" or rahul gandhi is hitler's genetic clone?

Punishment on what charges exactly? Haven't I told you that it is god who gave oil to Arabs unfairly? When this unfair oil distribution is responsible for problems, how can NDA punish god? Without being able to punish the root cause, what is the point of punishment? Trying to challeneg god is your height of stupidity.

Punishing the agents of Arabs have very little effect. Punishment is a misunderstood term. How will you punish a suicide bomber, for example? Who have to be punished will be punished but when god's power of oil depletes to reasonable levels. Till god unfairly protects someone, it is not in the hand of man to punish. God is not fair.

huehehue! Just stop blabbering nonsense without spekaing consistently. Simply throwing a set of random questions without any objective but to simply ask question make you look like a moron

 

[Milspec]

Yeah, as if a concept can't be refined with added knowledge. In the domain of electronics and software, there are many mor ethings than just mechanical items. Even chemical or fuel ugrade of missiles can be done if better fuel is foundl

Sure it can, but thats not what you claimed.

Punishment on what charges exactly? Haven't I told you that it is god who gave oil to Arabs unfairly? When this unfair oil distribution is responsible for problems, how can NDA punish god? Without being able to punish the root cause, what is the point of punishment? Trying to challeneg god is your height of stupidity.

Punishing the agents of Arabs have very little effect. Punishment is a misunderstood term. How will you punish a suicide bomber, for example? Who have to be punished will be punished but when god's power of oil depletes to reasonable levels. Till god unfairly protects someone, it is not in the hand of man to punish. God is not fair.

huehehue! Just stop blabbering nonsense without spekaing consistently. Simply throwing a set of random questions without any objective but to simply ask question make you look like a moron

Well you have gone from s400 to god and I am the moron, sounds legit dude.

Your initial claim > UPA won election courtesy of accepting funds through CIA's NGO fronts. That is subverting > both Legislative and Executive of the government> that is treason of the highest order.

Your next claim > irrespective of any unforeseen ramifications, if such an activity took place and the current dispensation is actively covering such treason, it is collusion (and I would highly suggest to look up the meaning). You are quite entitled to all of your tin foil hat theories, but just because you are peddling, doesn't mean we have to gobble, right?

 

[Noodler]

Buying expensive foreign products and trying to retrofit substandard or newly developed Indian subsystems would probably have a steeper learning curve than going in for well defined joint ventures. Its like getting an Audi and swapping the engine and electronics from a Maruti.

 

[randomradio]

NASAMS is in the class of SPYDER and QRSAM. When we have both of the latter, its not prudent to invest in a 3rd type. If there is a requirement of a short range quick reaction SAM to defend against drones, helicopters ,etc , put up a open tender. Let QR SAM and SPYDER too compete.

I thought the same as well. But I think this NASAMS deal is a political deal.

 

[randomradio]

It's manohar kahaaniyaan. Those were innocent days . Kids nowadays expect better . Hence , SDRF . Correct me if I'm wrong ? @randomradio

It's difficult to say if SFDR is part of the XRSAM or not. Even AAD could be part of the program. It's all speculation right now.

 

[Ankit Kumar]

I thought the same as well. But I think this NASAMS deal is a political deal.

If it's cost is comparable to SPYDER and its limited to only one System placed around vvip areas in Delhi, and it helps keep US quite for more deals with Russia, then maybe, maybe fine... But still not convinced.

 

[randomradio]

If it's cost is comparable to SPYDER and its limited to only one System placed around vvip areas in Delhi, and it helps keep US quite for more deals with Russia, then maybe, maybe fine... But still not convinced.

NASAMS is more suitable to protect vast areas like Delhi since you can disperse the radars.