India - France relations.

Operational? Your plane has a 50% MCR. Lol.

And according to the Swiss und Finns the "prototypes" were far superior and less expensive to operate... Actually Europe would rather buy US "prototypes" than to fly your underpowered brick that is only available half the time. :)
You seem to lose your footing, repeating the same old story, it is not so important the wreck of the F-35 and the US :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO:
 
The Pentagon did. When the F-35 couldn't fit into the MMRCA, the Pentagon offered the jet outside the MMRCA contract. That's when Ashton Carter said India only needs to ask for it and the Pentagon will allow it.

He didn't say that. Also 2007 India wanted F-35 and was about to get briefed when US put a stop to it.
IN's tender was also for... “must be in operational service”
What has IN have to show for since then?
 
It is the basic nature of US, excuses can be generated at their whims & fancies.

Turkey knew and broke the deal why is that so hard for you to comprehend? If nations don't like the clauses that come with buying US weapon systems they don't have to buy US weapons is that simple. You're not a victim. Apaches come with a clause which India had no issue signing. After all Apaches are first strike weapons in a way they were the ones that took out Iraqs early warning radars firing the first shots of Desert Storm. Btw that didn't stop PAF from using their F-16s to shoot down IAF fighter and capturing its pilot. This action however cost Pakistan dearly with strongly worded letter and a naughty boy slap on the wrist. It was humiliating for Pakistan but it had to be done or nations flying US fighters would start shooting down anything they wat causing world wide chaos!!
22 apaches are going to take on china at the himalayan heights? good luck with that. Those apaches are more or less for fight in the plains not mountains.

Apaches can be used as quiet snipers taking down strategic targets like in Desert Storm when they snuck in and took out Iraqs early warning systems. Apaches have done well in Afghanistan. Apaches have a combat ceiling of 20k so it's not as if they can't.
India is not going to fight china on the sea , simply bcos we are losing nothing in the seas. P8's or no P8s we have nothing to lose in the seas, given that chinese cannot even break out of SCS without getting noticed what makes you think they will be threat to India near our shores ? Do you even think chinese are stupid to disrupt their own shipping by fighting in these seas?


IT shows how limited you are in thinking. IN and your government completely disagrees with you.

-HONG KONG: Today it is legally indisputable that the high seas belong to all. This means China's navy has as much right to ply the Indian Ocean as any other nation, even though it might make countries like India feel a creeping sense of dread.



There is no point in buying a weapon system which cannot be used when needed. When India floated tender for 128 aircraft it was made quite clear that there will be not just offset but complete TOT. This is to ensure complete control over the system and protect our self from supply chain issues. This virtually rules out F35.

And yet as early as 2018 India requested a classified briefing of the F-35 and US said no. Also as I said that didn't stop PAF F-16 from shooting down an IAF fighter. There's nothing physically to stop PAF from doing it again except another slap on the wrist.
In short buying from US is like visiting a pro**** for one time f**** but no one will think of maintaining a long term relationship. I suppose they can keep f*** their reputation endlessly with utter disregard for norms and playing cheap games but there is a price to pay in the long run.

Europe, Japan, South Korea and soooo many nations don't have issues your saltiness comes from that the US has said no F-35s for India while other nations get to buy it. Look I get it your neighbors to the north not so long ago pretty much had a peasant air force and now they have the biggest modern air force of that region with over 120 stealth fighters and a second stealth fighter already flying while since 2010 all India has been able to get are 36 4th gen fighters.
 
You seem to lose your footing, repeating the same old story, it is not so important the wreck of the F-35 and the US :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO:
This is a fact darling not a story.

Btw have you made your phone calls to your "peoples" and gotten the information of dates and what model type french plane super cruised with 4 missiles and a center tank yet? What are you waiting for a guy like you should have no issue getting this non-classified information.
 
This is a fact darling not a story.

Btw have you made your phone calls to your "peoples" and gotten the information of dates and what model type french plane super cruised with 4 missiles and a center tank yet? What are you waiting for a guy like you should have no issue getting this non-classified information.
Why would I do that when this fact is perfectly established and only ignorant people like you ignore it?
 
Everything about you is hilarious. Specially when you try to annoy people calling them names or nicknaming them. you just lose your temper. Funny.
 
Everything about you is hilarious. Specially when you try to annoy people calling them names or nicknaming them. you just lose your temper. Funny.
You called be ignorant isn't that calling me names? What's funny about you calling me ignorant is that it was about something you are clueless in and I proved it and you have totally ignored my retort to your false claim.
 
You called be ignorant isn't that calling me names? What's funny about you calling me ignorant is that it was about something you are clueless in and I proved it and you have totally ignored my retort to your false claim.
One example where you are laughable is your insistence on denying, on an Indian forum, the supercruise capabilities of the Rafale. Indeed, during the MMRCA tests, almost all competitors were equipped with a supercruise system, but the Rafale obtained better results with Sneccma M88 engines. In a test mission organized by the IAF, the Rafale carried four air-to-air missiles and two guided bombs at a speed of Mach 1.4, impressing the IAF evaluation team. And you see, many of the participants in this forum are aviation enthusiasts and know airmen with whom they have had the opportunity to discuss this subject. @randomradio who is a good guy tried to warn you here:
But no way, you continue with your big hooves, which earns you a few quips.
 
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One example where you are laughable is your insistence on denying, on an Indian forum, the supercruise capabilities of the Rafale. Indeed, during the MMRCA tests, almost all competitors were equipped with a supercruise system, but the Rafale obtained better results with Sneccma M88 engines. In a test mission organized by the IAF, the Rafale carried four air-to-air missiles and two guided bombs at a speed of Mach 1.4, impressing the IAF evaluation team.

Yeah big deal the F-35c, the supposed "draggier" of the 3 because of its wings, went supersonic in this configuration.
@0:57.

And you see, many of the participants in this forum are aviation enthusiasts and know airmen with whom they have had the opportunity to discuss this subject. @randomradio who is a good guy tried to warn you here:
But no way, you continue with your big hooves, which earns you a few quips.

So I guess you haven't spoken to your buddies and don't have the date and model type of the french plane that "super cruised" with 4 missiles and a center tank even though in clean configuration the A model topped out at mach 1.8?
 
Yeah big deal the F-35c, the supposed "draggier" of the 3 because of its wings, went supersonic in this configuration.
@0:57.



So I guess you haven't spoken to your buddies and don't have the date and model type of the french plane that "super cruised" with 4 missiles and a center tank even though in clean configuration the A model topped out at mach 1.8?
The A model supercruise at Mach 2
Alain Rabion, chef pilote d'essai de la Snecma, entame les essais moteurs du M88-2 à Istres le (27 février 1990) et atteint dès ce premier vol la vitesse de Mach 2 à 15 000 m d'altitude (soit 2 128 km/h, la vitesse du son étant égale à 295 m/s à cette altitude) et sans utiliser la post-combustion
Translation:
Alain Rabion, chief test pilot at Snecma, began engine tests of the M88-2 at Istres on February 27, 1990, and reached a speed of Mach 2 at an altitude of 15,000 m (or 2,128 km/h, the speed of sound being equal to 295 m/s at this altitude) without using the afterburner

And you can read the official "fiche Rafale Le Bourget 2011" Given by Dassault to the speaker forthe presentation: look at the end!

fiche-rafale-le-bourget-2011.jpg
 
You can also read:
It sports the SPECTRA integrated electronic survival system which embodies a software-based virtual stealth technology. :cool:
 
The A model supercruise at Mach 2

Translation:
Alain Rabion, chief test pilot at Snecma, began engine tests of the M88-2 at Istres on February 27, 1990, and reached a speed of Mach 2 at an altitude of 15,000 m (or 2,128 km/h, the speed of sound being equal to 295 m/s at this altitude) without using the afterburner

Lol. Wiki? Really? I laugh because look what it says now.

- Alain Rabion, chief test pilot of the Snecma, begins the engine tests of the M88-2 in Istres on(February 27, 1990)and reaches from this first flight the speed of Mach 1.8 at 15,000 m altitude (or 2,128 km / h,the speed of sound being equal to 295 m / s at this altitude) use afterburners. 1,000 parameters of the M88-2 are transmitted to the 25 flight test engineers of the M88-2. The entire test campaign was a success and the M88 perfectly met the four main criteria required.

Use a real source not wiki in which some yahoo can edit and post his opinion.

Btw why do you post numbers what the french plane demonstrator "did" as if it has any correlation with current french planes? Todays production french plane has nothing to do with the demonstrator. The demonstrator/A model's engines have nothing to do with the production model engines currently in your plane. It is an ECO engine which is why in clean configuration it can only reach mach 1.8 and the M model mach 1.6. :)


And you can read the official "fiche Rafale Le Bourget 2011" Given by Dassault to the speaker forthe presentation: look at the end!

fiche-rafale-le-bourget-2011.jpg

Oy vey. This is only narrating the same old line of what the french plane demonstrator did when it got its M88 engines.

I thought you were the expert with ability to get info about your plane? The exact date of when your french plane SP with 4 missiles and a center tank isn't classified info so why is it hard for you to get it? I mean I can tell you why you're having trouble and that is because it wasn't a production model french plane that SP it was the demonstrator. That is why Dassault doesn't boast about your planes SP capabilities in its marketing scheme.
 
Lol. Wiki? Really? I laugh because look what it says now.

- Alain Rabion, chief test pilot of the Snecma, begins the engine tests of the M88-2 in Istres on(February 27, 1990)and reaches from this first flight the speed of Mach 1.8 at 15,000 m altitude (or 2,128 km / h,the speed of sound being equal to 295 m / s at this altitude) use afterburners. 1,000 parameters of the M88-2 are transmitted to the 25 flight test engineers of the M88-2. The entire test campaign was a success and the M88 perfectly met the four main criteria required.

Use a real source not wiki in which some yahoo can edit and post his opinion.

Btw why do you post numbers what the french plane demonstrator "did" as if it has any correlation with current french planes? Todays production french plane has nothing to do with the demonstrator. The demonstrator/A model's engines have nothing to do with the production model engines currently in your plane. It is an ECO engine which is why in clean configuration it can only reach mach 1.8 and the M model mach 1.6. :)




Oy vey. This is only narrating the same old line of what the french plane demonstrator did when it got its M88 engines.

I thought you were the expert with ability to get info about your plane? The exact date of when your french plane SP with 4 missiles and a center tank isn't classified info so why is it hard for you to get it? I mean I can tell you why you're having trouble and that is because it wasn't a production model french plane that SP it was the demonstrator. That is why Dassault doesn't boast about your planes SP capabilities in its marketing scheme.
Why would it be a specific date? The demonstrator capabilitied on a 2011 datasheet? Really?
 
Lol. Wiki? Really? I laugh because look what it says now.

- Alain Rabion, chief test pilot of the Snecma, begins the engine tests of the M88-2 in Istres on(February 27, 1990)and reaches from this first flight the speed of Mach 1.8 at 15,000 m altitude (or 2,128 km / h,the speed of sound being equal to 295 m / s at this altitude) use afterburners. 1,000 parameters of the M88-2 are transmitted to the 25 flight test engineers of the M88-2. The entire test campaign was a success and the M88 perfectly met the four main criteria required.

Use a real source not wiki in which some yahoo can edit and post his opinion.
I use wiki because I know it is true, I was in charge of the ATL2 weapon system at Dassault at that time, and the department heads had a weekly report of the significant events. And I remember very well the announcement of this performance.

Btw why do you post numbers what the french plane demonstrator "did" as if it has any correlation with current french planes?
Because My post answer to your where you disseminate false information like "even though in clean configuration the A model topped out at mach 1.8?"

Todays production french plane has nothing to do with the demonstrator. The demonstrator/A model's engines have nothing to do with the production model engines currently in your plane. It is an ECO engine which is why in clean configuration it can only reach mach 1.8 and the M model mach 1.6. :)

Today production Rafale has better performance than prototype as it is always the case with the Dassault aircrafts. And real performances are always better than official performances.

There is a raison for that: when DGA sign a contract there is official specifications and meeting these specifications is a necessary condition to be paid. So the companies have margins of safety and do better than the specifications to be sure to get paid, but then they don't have the right to say what the real performance is. So we discover them little by little after the equipment is put into service.

So officially the Rafale is capable of 9 g but we now know that it can go up to 11.5 g, officially it can go to Mach 1.8, but we know that this is only an instruction to the pilots and that the plane can go up to Mach 2, officially its ceiling is 50,000 feet, but we know that it can go much higher and that the only condition is that the pilot is equipped with a stratospheric suit so that an eventual ejection can be done safely.

And the Rafale M has exactly the same performance as the B and C.

Oy vey. This is only narrating the same old line of what the french plane demonstrator did when it got its M88 engines.
It's a sheet written by Dassault to allow the presenter at the Paris Air Show to broadcast reliable information during the Rafale's evolutions. I don't think it's in the interest of a manufacturer to spread false information about its products because it will be obliged to sign compliant commitments if it wants to sell, which is the purpose of an air show.

I thought you were the expert with ability to get info about your plane? The exact date of when your french plane SP with 4 missiles and a center tank isn't classified info so why is it hard for you to get it? I mean I can tell you why you're having trouble and that is because it wasn't a production model french plane that SP it was the demonstrator. That is why Dassault doesn't boast about your planes SP capabilities in its marketing scheme.
I am not an expert, I am a former executive of Dassault, so I don't need to ask for information, I already have the information, but when I give it you don't want to believe it, you prefer to believe the nonsense and prejudices found on the net. And if I don't give the exact date you ask, it's because it's a common performance, which we talk about, not an exceptional performance that would have made history, it's as if I didn't want to believe that a TESLA could reach 100 km/h and that I asked you to prove it by giving me the exact date and the chassis number of the TESLA that had realized this performance.
 
Yeah big deal the F-35c, the supposed "draggier" of the 3 because of its wings, went supersonic in this configuration.
@0:57.



So I guess you haven't spoken to your buddies and don't have the date and model type of the french plane that "super cruised" with 4 missiles and a center tank even though in clean configuration the A model topped out at mach 1.8?
Thanks for posting that video. I didn't know it went Mach 1 plus with that load. I'm surprised, I thought it would have been subsonic like the Rafale would be. Sorry, the Rafale can't even carry that weapon load and fuel, forget what I said.
 
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Thanks for posting that video. I didn't know it went Mach 1 plus with that load. I'm surprised, I thought it would have been subsonic like the Rafale would be. Sorry, the Rafale can't even carry that weapon load and fuel, forget what I said.
And I told picoil this was the draggy C model too but he just completely ignored it because he was making a point about how impressive his plane was going mach 1.4 with two missiles and two bombs but then once again the "new comer" totally deflated his mojo. :(

His fault he summoned my ghost to this thread trying to win something but as usual it backfired. Now my ghost is here forever and will haunt him in this forum every time he brings up his plane claiming something false.

But yeah the F-35C is a beast to be able to carry all that weight and drag and go mach 1+ says a lot about the F-35.
 
Ask him how fast it is with 2X 2,000lb bombs, 2 missiles and 3x 2000lt tanks? The F-35 is limited to M1.6 with that weapon and fuel load. It can go faster and higher, as this chart shows. See the straight line cutoff in 3F. It's limited to 50,000ft and M1.6
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