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There is a discussion in BRF about a possible BRAHMOS strike on an empty Pakistani Nuclear facility. Possibly to send a message.
No way..... That's a long step.... And jumping several steps on escalation ladder. ... Our plannere are smarter than that..... and that action you mentioned comes several steps ahead.......Even Pakistan wont do it .. Because that is act equal to nuclear attack..(even though sumbolic) ....With no action in border (no such info from either side) Wont be easy to explain....Too risky and not needed at current stage
 
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You wouldn't tell me even if I asked you my in-depth queries so ill keep it simple and the rest ill speculate within myself.:) How many were thrown off behind enemy line and was survival in the wild their only mission?

Just a couple of guys. It was a small team. They were to evade detection and return. Took them about 05 weeks to egress from point due south of the city.
 
A very interesting read.


Pakistan downed an Indian jet — but the economy is the real battleground

Securing Pakistan’s economy is the key to securing its borders.


Ali Hasanain


The events of the last few weeks have underlined the need for Pakistan to invest in robust defence.

While we can take a lot of pride in our military’s protection of our borders, it would be foolhardy in the extreme for us to allow these events to significantly inform the way forward. We must, instead, take stock of deeper and more powerful dynamics.

For decades, Pakistan significantly outperformed India in many ways. Our economy outdid theirs: in 32 years between 1961 and 1993, Pakistan’s economy grew nearly twice as quickly as India’s.

In military conflicts, while India’s size always led to eventual advantage, Pakistan leveraged a close alliance with the United States to give as good as it got in the 1965 war.

Even in 1971, Chuck Yeager — a top American pilot and the first man to break the sound barrier — was deployed in Pakistan in close support of the Pakistan Air Force. Pakistan even enjoyed supremacy on the cricket field for decades.


These facts, undeniable and culturally salient, cemented the idea of relative strength in our national psyche. It is equally undeniable, however, that India has reformed and Pakistan stagnated over the last 30 years.

This is well documented, but has not reflected in significantly updated beliefs in Pakistan. Part of the reason might simply be mental inertia; part of the reason might be that economic strength takes time to manifest in diplomatic and military consequences.

India initiated economic reforms in 1992, but it took more than a decade for the US to start investing seriously in its relationship with India, firmed up with the two countries’ civil nuclear deal of 2006. Militarily, change is even slower: relative capabilities are as much a reflection of past economic performances as current ones.

Consider that the MiG-21 shot down in late February was a type that India first acquired in 1964, and that Pakistan took first delivery of the F-16 in early 80s and signed the first Memorandum of Understanding in 1995 leading to JF-17 production two years later.

Our respective resource envelopes in bygone years affected our defence procurements, and thus had a bearing on the events of February.

By the same coin, we must understand that our past growth deficit creates a defence imbalance overhang: over the next decade or two, India will reap the strategic benefits of investing in its economy as its superior military acquisitions come on line.

It is the size of an economy that determines a country's ability to spend on it defence. If Pakistan fails to undertake serious economic reforms, our stagnation will further worsen our military imbalance with India.

Rise and fall

Let us review the scale of Pakistan’s economic decline relative to India.

In 1991, the Pakistani economy was 17 per cent as large as India’s. By 2017, a decade-and-a-half of being outmatched on economic growth has left us less than 12pc their size. This is a 41pc decline in our relative economic strength.

Ratio of Pakistan's GDP to India's

1.PNG
Source: World Bank

Gross domestic product (current US$)

1.PNG

Source: World Bank

Due to the sheer size of the Indian economy, reforms there have quickly increased their size advantage over Pakistan. In the five-decade period between 1963 and 2002, India generally grew slower than Pakistan, yet there were six instances of India’s annual economic growth exceeding the size of Pakistan’s entire economy.


More worryingly for the strategist, in the 15 years since 2003, India has achieved this feat nine times.

India’s size and robust growth has allowed its military expenditures to increase vastly since the 1990s, while falling slightly as a percentage of gross domestic product (GDP).


Military expenditure (current US million $)

1.PNG
Source: World Bank & SIPRI

Military expenditure (% of GDP)

1.PNG
Source: World Bank & SIPRI


Living next door to a strong adversary, Pakistan spent decades with the largest proportionate expenditure on defence in South Asia, but decreased defence spending significantly in the 1990s.

A simple, but fatal reaction to increased tensions with India today would be to once again increase the proportion of our government revenues spent on military spending. In fact, some scholars speculate that Indian defence planners may actually be interested in provoking us to do precisely this.

This would be suicidal: a rise in military spending today means less money to educate our children, invest in our infrastructure, support our police and courts and do all the other things that we can do to correct our economic decline.

1.PNG

Even after the decline noted above, Pakistan’s military expenditures as a percentage of GDP remain amongst the highest in the world. There is simply little space to squeeze non-military expenditures.


This presents us with a true dilemma: an increase in military spending today will crowd out economic growth and thus means paying for our near-term security by further reducing our capacity to increase defence spending in the future.


If India continues growing at its 15-year average annual rate of approximately 7.5pc and we stick to our current average growth rate, its economy — and thus its ability to spend on its military — will be more than 20 times our size by 2047.

Where does Pakistan go from here?

Simply to return to our relative strength with respect to India to 1990 levels, we need to grow at an average of 10pc for the next 30 years — achievable, but a feat accomplished only by Ireland, China and Vietnam in the past.


The key out of this mess lies in understanding that this is as much a story of our stagnation as it is of India’s rise. Since the 1980s, every major South Asian economy has improved its citizens’ health, and since 1990 its wealth, faster than Pakistan.


The most optimistic projections suggest that the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor will add 2.5pc to our growth rates. Useful, but not enough by half.

We will have to do the hard work ourselves: we need to shatter protectionism, slash inefficient public expenditures, invest in quality education and improve the functioning of our legal system.

1.PNG

1.PNG

This requires profound, deep-cutting, unprecedented economic reform. Ironically, we can learn much from considering two determinants of India’s growth.


While it stagnated economically, India invested early and well in elite public universities. This helped set the conditions for its growth post-reforms.


Then, when India’s foreign exchange reserves dipped to covering only three weeks of imports in 1991, Narasimha Rao was willing to absorb the political blowback of Manmohan Singh’s reforms.


As economies grow, so does the value of trade amongst neighbours. Already, World Bank estimates suggest that a failure to trade costs India and Pakistan $35 billion in lost economic value.


As Pakistan grows, the gains from peace will only rise. Who knows, perhaps our economy itself will one day secure our borders within a peaceful and prosperous South Asia.


source: Pakistan downed an Indian jet — but the economy is the real battleground - Prism - DAWN.COM
 
There is a discussion in BRF about a possible BRAHMOS strike on an empty Pakistani Nuclear facility. Possibly to send a message.

People there are bunch of theoretical fools who never saw a terrorist strike in real and talk like a big shot. These people are way way apart from the ground reality.
 
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Some one posted this on one of the blogs/forum :unsure: I do agree with some points but not all.
by

The Ultranationalist,Yesterday at 10:06 AM

First of all I want to explain that I am a BJP voter but not a bhakt and I vote for them as I expect to see a strong PM in Modi which in reality he doesn't seem to be and also I have no better options. The video that I have posted makes a lot of sense to me while most of the people here will dismiss it as pakistani psyop. I invite the members to debate on the below points, here I would like to explain that my view points are concerned with the security issues only and not others like economic and social:​


India punches below its weight

What happen on 27 feb shows that a country the Pakistanis are not deterred by us as they attacked in broad daylight and even downed a Mig21. There was no retaliation from the IAF and the entire focus of the nation shifted towards bringing the downed pilot back. And since then what is happening is insignificant skirmishes and cfv on the LC and posturing by the Indian navy in the arabian sea and not concrete actions against the Pakistanis.​


Rafael in equation

After 27 feb, one of our retired ACM was saying that the result would have been different if we had the rafales but we know that even if we have them we will still send the Mig21s and Mig15s to fight. If they can not muster up the courage to attack pakistan even with 300 MKIs, Mirages, Mig29s then they still will be finding excuses when they have Rafales or even F22s. I have a feeling that our Air forces leadership is comprised of the talkers only and they are clueless when it comes to taking action, maintenance is mess, service rate of aircraft are also not very good, 4 to 5 crashes in a month and it seems that the air force will lose a squadron every year with this crash rate. The 27 feb attack has exposed the reality of the air forces claim of multi layerd defence system and I know what excuse these morons will give now, they didn't had S400s.​


Unfinished businesses

There is a peculiar thing about the working style of the loudmouth BJP leaders, they leave unfinished what they have started when it comes to the matters of wars and conflicts. Kargil war, Op parakram, Uri and now Pulwama. During Kargil we had the opportunity to go into a full fledged war but Vajpayee chose not to cross the LC umder foreign pressure. As if he was waiting for the Pakistanis to accept that those were its regulars who sneaked into our territory and captured our posts. After 2002 Parliament attack there was buildup on the IB but then again the govt backed down and the army failed to mobilise within 72 hours as per their cold start doctrine. The actions after the Uri attack were also insufficient as the pakistanis continue to send terrorists in our country and kill our jawans. And afetr he pulwama attack these morons have exposed the unpreparedness of the country to launch an offemsive and lack of the political will to take any punitive action against the Pakistanis. Just look at Israel it never leaves any business unfinishes or loses its territory to the islamists, even congis are better than these fake nationalists as it was them who broke the porkland into two and they never start start anything which they dont believe they can finish. The govt has not given convincing evidence of f16s being downed so far and it is for the same reason some people are raising doubts about the surgical strikes.​


Bigmouths

The worst thing about the current ruling party is that many among them are a bunch of loudmouth monkeys who do small and insignificant thing but talk big. These idiots got the country insulted by not escalating the matter after the pulwama attacks but are shamelessly using the pictures of our jawans on their election campaign posters. Now they are running from pillar to post to get some expendable jihadi banned by the UN. Modi has the chance to prove himself a wartime leader but so far apart from posturing he has done nothing and its back to square one now, cfv at LC and the air force doing war excercises involving the ancient MIG21s.


Buck passing

What I hate the most is the habit of buck passing by that ganja Rajnath Singh and his pussycat gang comprising of Nirmala Sitaraman and their boss Modi. They say that they have given the army a freehand! Now wtf is that supposed to mean? You have been elected to give them the marching orders and not freehand which they dont need you morons. You think you can escape your responsibilities by saying that you have given them a freehand? Is that what people have voted you for? The army always has a freehand to retaliate, they dont need it from you.​


Headless chickens

This govt is absolute morons when it comes to defence and security related matters. They have no clue regarding what to do and what not to do. They are after some expendable and replaceable stooges like Ajhar, Dawood and Hafij saeed but they are reluctant to act against their handlers, the *censored* deep state. Even if you kill or capture them somebody else will take their place and continue to spread islamic terrorism in India. This govt is trying to cut the branches imsted of the root. And their is only one way to do that, destroy the pakistani state completly so that it is not able to organise terror attack against us and for that to happen we need to fight a final war with pakistn to settle the business of Kashmir and Balochistan.​


I am forced to raise the above questions because the foolish and coward BJP govt has created such circumstance of doubts and confusion due to its inaction and half hearted approach to deal with the islamic pakistan. But I haven't lost all hopes yet and I am hopeful that the nation will launch a full fledged offensive against pakistan with all its might.​


@screambowl

Request, do not cross post useless tripe from other forums, it is against forum policies all over.

Also, the moment you read Mig-15s, please understand that the poster is a wannabe.

Thank you for your cooperation hereafter.
 
Order for
  • Bullet proof jackets.
  • Helmets.
  • Assault rifles.
  • Sniper rifles.
  • Light machine guns.
  • Artillery.
  • Grenades.
Are all placed within last 2 years or are still in process of being placed. What did our soldiers fight with before this?! We are ready to spend Billions on expensive toys with very high risk of losing them even in peace time but the very basic combat kit that can devastate enemy everyday, 365 days is always missing. Why such twisted priorities?! Is this how we were planning to dominate Pakistan!
 
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Order for
  • Bullet proof jackets.
  • Helmets.
  • Assault rifles.
  • Sniper rifles.
  • Light machine guns.
  • Artillery.
  • Grenades.
Are all placed within last 2 years or are still in process of being placed. What did our soldiers fight with before this?! We are ready to spend Billions on expensive toys with very high risk of losing them even in peace time but the very basic combat kit that can devastate enemy everyday, 365 days is always missing. Why such twisted priorities?! Is this how we were planning to dominate Pakistan!

Reasons to do so are classified and we MUST trust armed forces and leadership. While our soldiers are to fire on daily basis, expensive toys like Su 30 just provided a sea off to intruding enemy aircraft.

Meanwhile, how about claiming downfall of Pakistan economy if not F-16s?
 
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Order for
  • Bullet proof jackets.
  • Helmets.
  • Assault rifles.
  • Sniper rifles.
  • Light machine guns.
  • Artillery.
  • Grenades.
Are all placed within last 2 years or are still in process of being placed. What did our soldiers fight with before this?! We are ready to spend Billions on expensive toys with very high risk of losing them even in peace time but the very basic combat kit that can devastate enemy everyday, 365 days is always missing. Why such twisted priorities?! Is this how we were planning to dominate Pakistan!
Remember the Press conference of Chief after Doklam..... He spoke lot of things....
listen to him once
 
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This is an ongoing operation.... Not over..... The way things are.... even PA is preparing..... Even if we don't fire a bullet.... We have inflicted adequate damage on Pakistan

Baniya we are. Problem solved.

How many aircraft they crashed while preparing? And if that is the solution, Pulwama must not have happened after 2001-02 standoff.
 
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