Status
Not open for further replies.
Since the Spice only glides while the Popeye is powered, the accuracy of Popeye during endgame would be higher.
I think you need to understand that human guidance requires a two man cockpit. And the accuracy of weapons with INS/GPS/IIR guidance is far superior to anything which has human interface. PROVIDED the coordinates are accurate to centimeters. Balakot SPICE2000 had twelve digit Lat & Long coordinates.
Hope we can catchup, we are behind the curve in terms of TNW
May I know your sorce of information on this? Have you heard of Shakti-2 in Pokharan? we tested sub kiloton devices much before Pak thought of TNWs. Do you know that we have tested more subKT devices as recently as last year?
 
The terminal guidance of the Spice 2000 and Popeye are pretty much the same. So if the Spice could be used, Popeye would be in the same weather conditions as well. But this is only in the "drop and forget" mode, basically fire and forget. Vstol has already explained this.

But if you want to insert a man in the loop, then the pilot can use a datalink to communicate with the missile. The TV sensor will allow the pilot to see the target and make course adjustments if necessary. If Air HQ wanted the Popeyes to be fired with a man in the loop for a specific reason, then the cloud cover will be enough to abort the strike. Since the Spice only glides while the Popeye is powered, the accuracy of Popeye during endgame would be higher.

So I would assume planning was done hours and hours ago, perhaps well before dusk the previous day, based on the hope that the cloud cover before dawn would be clear enough for Popeye to be used with "man in the loop" setting.

Of course this is considering what the article said is true and the Popeye strike was aborted due to the weather. But one can also assume the strike was aborted due to many other reasons, like a failure to launch, perhaps only a backup in case most of the Spice failed etc. It's also possible that the missile was meant to flatten some structures within the camp after the Spice had struck in order to leave behind some verifiable proof, but was aborted at the final moment in order to give the Pakistanis a PR escape route. Who knows?

Specific query.

Do I necessarily need to use EO in terminal guidance to the target even after feeding in the GPS coordinates considering what you term 'man in loops'? My rudimentary and untrained understanding says no as even SA-6 has the EO guidance as redundancy (in operation with 501 and 502 AD Groups of Army AD) for terminal corrections if needed. But you do get the video feed.

If the answer is no, then ... make what you make of this write up.
 
I think you need to understand that human guidance requires a two man cockpit. And the accuracy of weapons with INS/GPS/IIR guidance is far superior to anything which has human interface. PROVIDED the coordinates are accurate to centimeters. Balakot SPICE2000 had twelve digit Lat & Long coordinates.

May I know your sorce of information on this? Have you heard of Shakti-2 in Pokharan? we tested sub kiloton devices much before Pak thought of TNWs. Do you know that we have tested more subKT devices as recently as last year?

Sub critical testing ?
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Hellfire
Have you heard of Shakti-2 in Pokharan? we tested sub kiloton devices much before Pak thought of TNWs. Do you know that we have tested more subKT devices as recently as last year?
I am aware of these tests, I am also aware we don't need to do live tests to refine it too, our supercomputers, can do all of this.
When I said we are behind curve, was implying to widespread deployment of Nasir which they claim to be TNW.
We don't have any widespread such deployment of SubKT missiles
. @Falcon post was very informative thx. it does count & will be a more efficient & cost effective delivery system indeed
 
Last edited:
I am aware of these tests, I am also aware we don't need to do live tests to refine it too, our supercomputers, can do all of this.
When I said we are behind curve, was implying to widespread deployment of Nasir which they claim to be TNW.
We don't have any widespread such deployment of SubKT missiles
. @Falcon post was very informative thx. it does count & will be a more efficient & cost effective delivery system indeed
Buddy, I told you guys that we have tons of surprises for Pak Army in store. Please do not get carried away by their propaganda. They have outsmarted us in Hybrid warfare but now we are taking them on and also very effectively. Game has just begun. Wait for the results. Have you ever heard of boosted shells from 155mm arty? What are they and what is their range? Why have we chosen a higher cartridge capacity for our ATAGS?
 
I think you need to understand that human guidance requires a two man cockpit. And the accuracy of weapons with INS/GPS/IIR guidance is far superior to anything which has human interface. PROVIDED the coordinates are accurate to centimeters. Balakot SPICE2000 had twelve digit Lat & Long coordinates.

AFAIK, Popeye and Spice have the same front end hardware.
 
Sub critical testing ?

I suggest you consult research documents from RRCAT , nothing is stated explicitly , but if one can join the dots.......

They are said to work in non nuclear technologies , but the technologies they work in are related to the same. And interestingly they come under DAE.

One can take very very small quantities of relevant material and do interestingly things on it with lasers based on pre generated test date and then conform and scale it up with stimulations.

Spin off technologies are also necessary to test viability of the core from time to time inorder to counter decay and such.

And FYI RRCAT is the most embargoed R&D institute in India , and that should tell you the dual nature of their work.

Anyways totally unrelated and speculative

If I am of the conspiracy type , I would wonder if any salt mines are available and then again wonder at the frequency of regular seismic activity around the region's , and again wonder at my chances to mask any unnatural low seismic activity within the natural ones. Contrary to public opinion , seismic activity is a regularly occuring phenomenon.
 
Specific query.

Do I necessarily need to use EO in terminal guidance to the target even after feeding in the GPS coordinates considering what you term 'man in loops'?

When hitting static targets, EO is unnecessary. The EO is necessary when the target is moving or if sat nav is not longer available. Otherwise GPS is more than enough.

Man in loops's gone to loopy land. With the exception of BDA and cost, I don't think there's going to be much use for TV with the arrival of IIR, and with laser seekers coming up next. Like the end of an era.

My rudimentary and untrained understanding says no as even SA-6 has the EO guidance as redundancy (in operation with 501 and 502 AD Groups of Army AD) for terminal corrections if needed. But you do get the video feed.

If the answer is no, then ... make what you make of this write up.

I think it is primarily due to the direct video feed. Earlier, in PGMs, TV was one of the best forms of guiding a target accurately, before IIR became the norm. But now TVs can be excellent for BDA, without putting a manned plane at risk.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Hellfire
I prefer 9 mm plastic sheet, with 6x6x3 feet ditch to cover it with and me inside ;)

Just make sure your ditch don't get trampled by tanks and such trying to escape the zone :p
A large signboard with " danger - mines " planted above your ditch should suffice.
 
Last edited:
I suggest you consult research documents from RRCAT , nothing is stated explicitly , but if one can join the dots.......

They are said to work in non nuclear technologies , but the technologies they work in are related to the same. And interestingly they come under DAE.

One can take very very small quantities of relevant material and do interestingly things on it with lasers based on pre generated test date and then conform and scale it up with stimulations.

Such technologies are also necessary to test viability of the core from time to time inorder to counter decay and such.

And FYI RRCAT is the most embargoed R&D institute in India , and that should tell you the dual nature of their work.

Anyways totally unrelated and speculative

If I am of the conspiracy type , I would wonder if any salt mines are available and then again wonder at the frequency of regular seismic activity around the region's , and again wonder at my chances to mask any unnatural low seismic activity within the natural ones. Contrary to public opinion , seismic activity is a regularly occuring phenomenon.
Good to see that you are reaching somewhere there.
 
  • Like
Reactions: hellbent
I suggest you consult research documents from RRCAT , nothing is stated explicitly , but if one can join the dots.......

They are said to work in non nuclear technologies , but the technologies they work in are related to the same. And interestingly they come under DAE.

One can take very very small quantities of relevant material and do interestingly things on it with lasers based on pre generated test date and then conform and scale it up with stimulations.

Spin off technologies are also necessary to test viability of the core from time to time inorder to counter decay and such.

And FYI RRCAT is the most embargoed R&D institute in India , and that should tell you the dual nature of their work.

Anyways totally unrelated and speculative

If I am of the conspiracy type , I would wonder if any salt mines are available and then again wonder at the frequency of regular seismic activity around the region's , and again wonder at my chances to mask any unnatural low seismic activity within the natural ones. Contrary to public opinion , seismic activity is a regularly occuring phenomenon.


Explained: Why Palghar is repeatedly jolted by earthquakes
 
  • Like
Reactions: Paro
When hitting static targets, EO is unnecessary. The EO is necessary when the target is moving or if sat nav is not longer available. Otherwise GPS is more than enough.

Man in loops's gone to loopy land. With the exception of BDA and cost, I don't think there's going to be much use for TV with the arrival of IIR, and with laser seekers coming up next. Like the end of an era.



I think it is primarily due to the direct video feed. Earlier, in PGMs, TV was one of the best forms of guiding a target accurately, before IIR became the norm. But now TVs can be excellent for BDA, without putting a manned plane at risk.
Pakistan has RBS70. And deployed in the area where our guys went in. Ingress is never a problem for us fighter pilots. Egress is as the whole nest of honeebees gets after us. Please remeber I had posted that it is not the No-1 or 2 in the formation who gets shot down, but the no-3 and 4 get exposed to hellfire. We do multi-drirectional attacks for this reason and that ensures that everyone escapes. Normally we attack at 480kts but our escape is at over 540 knots and as low as one can fly. Do you know what a speed of 540 knots at 100 feet from ground means? The whole world merges in one picture like a sheet being pulled under your feet. You lose the ability to distinguish any kind of feature from houses to flat ground under your feet. Its like a sheet being pulled under you which has zero features and only occasional colours.
 
was implying to widespread deployment of Nasir which they claim to be TNW.

When a person declares and keep repeating a capability as important as this, Why would they do it???? There are 2 purpose (either of which) get served here....

1) Let the enemy know that you have the capability and use the info as a deterrent
2) Make the enemy feel that you have the capability and use it as a deterrent... Bluffing

We all know why pak does this....

Have you heard anyone talking about Indian nukes in public domain (ignore the PM deewali statement).....Keeping quiet and making the enemy guessing is also a strategy..... That doesn't mean that we do not have the capacity.....
 
When a person declares and keep repeating a capability as important as this, Why would they do it???? There are 2 purpose (either of which) get served here....

1) Let the enemy know that you have the capability and use the info as a deterrent
2) Make the enemy feel that you have the capability and use it as a deterrent... Bluffing

We all know why pak does this....

Have you heard anyone talking about Indian nukes in public domain (ignore the PM deewali statement).....Keeping quiet and making the enemy guessing is also a strategy..... That doesn't mean that we do not have the capacity.....
Swargiyeh Sh. Parrikar was a Konkani Brahmin, same as the Peshwas. He directly questioned and ALSO MODIFIED our nuke deterrence. Pakistan will never be able to fire even a TNW forget about city busters. When he questioned it, I had posted what I wrote to him on another forum and his statement was after good about a month. I had also posted that we can take out 75% of Pak population within five minutes. Indian SFCs have wargamed it. I got a very nice email from the office of Swargiya Sh. Parrikar for my game of things.
 
Did IAF miss out on an opportunity to make a bold statement by taking down all Pakistan Air Force jets when they crossed the LoC on Feb 27th?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.