India - Pakistan Standoff 2019

[Arsalan123]

Time starting from 21st June till 11th August is very bad for Pakistan and a war can easily break out.

Yes there is a chance of war.i can't describe the events of Feb28.it was war like situation with f-16 and jf-17 both patrolling our skies on continuous basis.it was the most terrible night of my life.i heard sirens,fighter jets sound,prayers in mosque.i hope we can find a solution to all of our problems.

 

[Guynextdoor]

Yes there is a chance of war.i can't describe the events of Feb28.it was war like situation with f-16 and jf-17 both patrolling our skies on continuous basis.it was the most terrible night of my life.i heard sirens,fighter jets sound,prayers in mosque.i hope we can find a solution to all of our problems.

Indian Army and IAF are like the Indian Cricket Team- always training and always getting ready.

PA and PAF are like Pak Cricket Team.....you know how this ends....

It's far cheaper to shut down the Let and Jem than risk going to war.

 

[vstol Jockey]

I don't think that's correct. The army will exercise with the IBG concept this July and then raise it all up over the next 2 years.

I suppose you are referring to the army's "pro-active strategy" instead.

There have been very clear reports that IBGs were exercised in May-Jun this year by Kharga corps and go ahead has been given to form one IBG each for each Pivot Corps.

 

[Arsalan123]

Indian Army and IAF are like the Indian Cricket Team- always training and always getting ready.

PA and PAF are like Pak Cricket Team.....you know how this ends....

It's far cheaper to shut down the Let and Jem than risk going to war.

I think even in cold start,air Superiority is the main factor otherwise indian troops will not cross border.i trust paf.i have seen their preparation with my own eyes.the way they fly in the night sky is incredible.they know what they are doing.i think it's very hard for iaf to destroy every plane of paf.

 

[Guynextdoor]

I think even in cold start,air Superiority is the main factor otherwise indian troops will not cross border.i trust paf.i have seen their preparation with my own eyes.the way they fly in the night sky is incredible.they know what they are doing.i think it's very hard for iaf to destroy every plane of paf.

You're talking like an audience man in a theatre. It costs 10,000 USD per hour to keep your F 16 in air. Even more to keep our Sukhois in the air. We have given them the budgets and the resources need to keep their training at a high pace. You haven't. We have sent our pilots on contsant war games with other countries to always keep training. On an average it will be 4 or 5 times the war games your guys play.

@vstol Jockey if I'm not wrong the highest levels of pilots are called 'Master Greens' and they can take their planes out whenever they want and fly however long as needed? I heard the PAF doesn't have this category at all...@VSTOL jockey can you confirm?

 

[Guynextdoor]

@Arsalan123 there is no pilot in PAF who has ever done anything like this...the highest skill a fighter pilot can have. Over here even our very own @vstol Jockey can do it...means he's more skilled than all the pilots in PAF (when he's not on Old Monk that is )

 

[Ashutosh]

IBGs have already been formed and will be the lynchpin.

IBGs have not been operationalized. Beacsue of the first part of the system, Integration. This integration requires the various elements in the battle group are able to talk to one another, which clearly isn't the case (arty cannot talk to infantry without going through Brigade HQ, communication protocols and equipment), this needs a common communication and battle management system with real time networking which is presently absent. That said, the very fact the the proposed IBGs are to replace the Brigade system, this means there will be some level of communication interoperability among them, but with only 3-5 IBGs with 5000 troops each. they will likely serve very specialized actions and will not be as grand as being madeout.

 

[BlackOpsIndia]

I think even in cold start,air Superiority is the main factor otherwise indian troops will not cross border.i trust paf.i have seen their preparation with my own eyes.the way they fly in the night sky is incredible.they know what they are doing.i think it's very hard for iaf to destroy every plane of paf.

Proof of the pudding is in eating, events of 26 and 27 Feb shows that very clearly.

While even after so much training, technological and numerical superiority IAF didn't dominated the battlefield as was expect for whatever reason, PAF was way worst.

On 26 they had no clue about who entered Pakistan and from where and on 27th they missed every single target on ground and in air and ended up losing F16 to Mig21.

In next conflict, if there is any, the shortcomings will be rectified and I won't be surprised if it is a complete one sided war with IAF annihilating PAF.

 

[Arsalan123]

You're talking like an audience man in a theatre. It costs 10,000 USD per hour to keep your F 16 in air. Even more to keep our Sukhois in the air. We have given them the budgets and the resources need to keep their training at a high pace. You haven't. We have sent our pilots on contsant war games with other countries to always keep training. On an average it will be 4 or 5 times the war games your guys play.

@vstol Jockey if I'm not wrong the highest levels of pilots are called 'Master Greens' and they can take their planes out whenever they want and fly however long as needed? I heard the PAF doesn't have this category at all...@VSTOL jockey can you confirm?

We do train in America mostly because we fly vipers and not su-30s.i don't want to disrespect any air force.training and resources allocation is good but skills are necessary.i have no idea about master greens.what I wanted to say is that we know what we are doing.i think paf is flying vipers since 80s.they have complete command over their systems.

 

[Arsalan123]

@Arsalan123 there is no pilot in PAF who has ever done anything like this...the highest skill a fighter pilot can have. Over here even our very own @vstol Jockey can do it...means he's more skilled than all the pilots in PAF (when he's not on Old Monk that is )

@Arsalan123 there is no pilot in PAF who has ever done anything like this...the highest skill a fighter pilot can have. Over here even our very own @vstol Jockey can do it...means he's more skilled than all the pilots in PAF (when he's not on Old Monk that is )

Great.may the better air Force wins!

 

[Guynextdoor]

We do train in America mostly because we fly vipers and not su-30s.i don't want to disrespect any air force.training and resources allocation is good but skills are necessary.i have no idea about master greens.what I wanted to say is that we know what we are doing.i think paf is flying vipers since 80s.they have complete command over their systems.

You don't have matching skills because you don't have matching training. It's not very different from a cricket macth. You spend time training every day, make sure you watch your diet every day and always focussed on your daily training, you win. At the very least the numbers of hours your guys get on their planes and face offs with other air forces is way lesser than ours. I'm not even talking about equipment superiority here.

 

[Arsalan123]

Proof of the pudding is in eating, events of 26 and 27 Feb shows that very clearly.

While even after so much training, technological and numerical superiority IAF didn't dominated the battlefield as was expect for whatever reason, PAF was way worst.

On 26 they had no clue about who entered Pakistan and from where and on 27th they missed every single target on ground and in air and ended up losing F16 to Mig21.

In next conflict, if there is any, the shortcomings will be rectified and I won't be surprised if it is a complete one sided war with IAF annihilating PAF.

I can start a thread on why paf didn't Target your military brigade hq.feb 27 events is seen by all.your forces presented amraam wreckage.it means amraams were fired on your jets.i don't want to say anything more.wise people will understand my point.

 

[Arsalan123]

You don't have matching skills because you don't have matching training. It's not very different from a cricket macth. You spend time training every day, make sure you watch your diet every day and always focussed on your daily training, you win. At the very least the numbers of hours your guys get on their planes and face offs with other air forces is way lesser than ours. I'm not even talking about equipment superiority here.

So basically you want to say that paf is poor trained and can't fight against iaf?

 

[Jaymax]

All the things that you describe above doesn't make your forceful interventions legal.chunk? I read somewhere that you didn't even give us enough weapons which British left for both of us.i don't want to argue because I am not here to challenge your narrative.

If its not legal as per your esteemed legal expertise how about raising a legal challenge? The Division of military assets was decided by the British with agreement from both sides and all agreed assets were transferred to Pakistan.

You dont want to argue because you are as short on facts as SBP is on Foreign reserves. As far as hearsay is concerned I too have heard a lot of things about Pakistan and unlike you I CAN provide facts to back my argument up. So drop this whining and learn to listen.

 

[Arsalan123]

You don't have matching skills because you don't have matching training. It's not very different from a cricket macth. You spend time training every day, make sure you watch your diet every day and always focussed on your daily training, you win. At the very least the numbers of hours your guys get on their planes and face offs with other air forces is way lesser than ours. I'm not even talking about equipment superiority here.

So basically you want to say that paf is poor trained and can't fight against iaf?

 

[Arsalan123]

If its not legal as per your esteemed legal expertise how about raising a legal challenge? The Division of military assets was decided by the British with agreement from both sides and all agreed assets were transferred to Pakistan.

You dont want to argue because you are as short on facts as SBP is on Foreign reserves. As far as hearsay is concerned I too have heard a lot of things about Pakistan and unlike you I CAN provide facts to back my argument up. So drop this whining and learn to listen.

All agreed assets weren't transferred to Pakistan.you even didn't give us promised number of rifles.you are forcing me to agree with your narrative.

 

[Guynextdoor]

I can start a thread on why paf didn't Target your military brigade hq.feb 27 events is seen by all.your forces presented amraam wreckage.it means amraams were fired on your jets.i don't want to say anything more.wise people will understand my point.

You think we didn't know you could target our brigade HQ?
1) Dhanoa had given the same assessment twice- that Pakistan can target our border assets
a) First time after Uri - so because of this assesment Modi decided to use ground forces for 'Surgical Strikes'
b) Second time after Pulwama- despite this assesment Modi decided to use air forces for 'Surgical Strikes'. Why?
- National policy was that if Pak doesn't shut down terrorist cell we will
-We responded to Uri and if we didn't respond to Pulwama our commitement to our policy will be questioned. We had to do it to show our policy was not a paper tiger
- After Uri terror launch pads will still active across border. After Pulwama ISI quickly closed them down and moved inside to places like Balakot where our ground forces couldn't target them. ISI gambled we won't use airforce and we did.

 

[Guynextdoor]

So basically you want to say that paf is poor trained and can't fight against iaf?

PAF is denifitely lesser trained than IAF.

 

[Jaymax]

All agreed assets weren't transferred to Pakistan.you even didn't give us promised number of rifles.you are forcing me to agree with your narrative.

Agreed number of rifles were not transferred? Then how did Akbar Khan condemn so many good rifles and then pass them to the tribals you were prepping to invade Kashmir? Dude talk facts or keep on getting your *censored* handed to you. I am not forcing anything. I dont do that ... with a keyboard.

 

[vstol Jockey]

You're talking like an audience man in a theatre. It costs 10,000 USD per hour to keep your F 16 in air. Even more to keep our Sukhois in the air. We have given them the budgets and the resources need to keep their training at a high pace. You haven't. We have sent our pilots on contsant war games with other countries to always keep training. On an average it will be 4 or 5 times the war games your guys play.

@vstol Jockey if I'm not wrong the highest levels of pilots are called 'Master Greens' and they can take their planes out whenever they want and fly however long as needed? I heard the PAF doesn't have this category at all...@VSTOL jockey can you confirm?

Yes. Master Green, Green and White are instrument ratings to fly in bad weather and are granted to pilots based on their exp and skill level. Even the GCIOs are rated accordingly.

So basically you want to say that paf is poor trained and can't fight against iaf?

Exactly. Your level of fighting ability was exposed on 27th. It is correct that in Indian Armed forces we have maximum respect for PAF but the way they executed the 27th strike, we now put them at par with African Air Forces. You had better aircraft in 1965 and 1971 and yet you lost the battle. Now we have better equipment and one of the reasons why you got away with just one F-16 down was bcoz some idiot in WAC decided not to cross the LOC and not to fire across LOC.

IBGs have not been operationalized. Beacsue of the first part of the system, Integration. This integration requires the various elements in the battle group are able to talk to one another, which clearly isn't the case (arty cannot talk to infantry without going through Brigade HQ, communication protocols and equipment), this needs a common communication and battle management system with real time networking which is presently absent. That said, the very fact the the proposed IBGs are to replace the Brigade system, this means there will be some level of communication interoperability among them, but with only 3-5 IBGs with 5000 troops each. they will likely serve very specialized actions and will not be as grand as being madeout.

You need to understand that we do not go into exercise unless we have ironed out every aspect of operations. All these exercises must have first taken place on paper, followed by war gaming on tactical simulators and only after that they are exercised in real time to validate the lessons learnt during these phases. You might recall that when Kharga Corps did the exercises with IBGs, even IAF component associated with IBGs was involved in real time.