You are Neither understanding the problem nor you are willing to acknowledge the Changes in the world where Social Media is also a fighting arm
Ghafoor was publicly saluting his SM warriors and asking whether they had got their payments
India - Pakistan Standoff 2019
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You are Neither understanding the problem nor you are willing to acknowledge the Changes in the world where Social Media is also a fighting arm
Ghafoor was publicly saluting his SM warriors and asking whether they had got their payments
It was. But no more. Please check the latest on it. USA and CENTCOM has nothing to do with this base anymore for last over three years.
It's been placed as a contingency support base along with drone placement.
Spoken to the establishment. You might wanna reach out. We've become happy to share it seems in the last 5 months. There was an invitation sent out too, self paid visit to Delhi. I'm sure you're aware.
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1049051232150958&id=100011382727099
Pakistani activist Rana Jawed goes live on Facebook before he commits suicide.
He is an Ex Pakistan Army Personnel and mentions the Pakistan Army involvement in global terrorism including India and balakot camp.
@Arsalan123
Pakistani activist Rana Jawed goes live on Facebook before he commits suicide.
He is an Ex Pakistan Army Personnel and mentions the Pakistan Army involvement in global terrorism including India and balakot camp.
@Arsalan123
Poor soul, was he in delusion these years after Osama caught alive in attobad garrison..
Sir, I haven't had the honor of being on the payroll of ISPR. Will absolutely let you know when I do. I don't see any reason why Indians cannot apply for the job.Dude whats the salary of ISPR troll? Can Indians apply for the job
Sir, I'm glad that you agree. I hope the remaining members also agree soon, there was no need for a 500+ pages long discussion.
Sir, what the radar sees is a blip and its perceived size, nothing else. The electronic signature for example the radar, ECM, comms etc determines its type. During the battle, the radar operators classify and 'tag' the hostiles. We do not know the electronics onboard the Mirage-IIIDPs (some Mirages don't even have a radar), just that they are primarily trainer/strike aircrafts. It is possible for the hostile to be mis-identified, it happens a lot even during exercises.
Primarily, the absence of IFF is enough for it to be declared hostile. I believe that's exactly what happened with the ill-fated Mi-17.
Sir, instead of taking it personally and lashing out, I'd recommend going through the imagery again. The immediate before/after imagery does not show any roof change. On Google Earth its confusing, since the DOI of the 'before' is 13/06/2018.
Sir, I don't think calling me a *censored* will change the truth.
Sir, I'm only going by the official IAF press release which acknowledged PAF SOWs falling within IA compounds. The Indian media has falsified so much information that I don't even know where to begin with. Last I read 11x H-4s missed their mark, as reported by ANI. I hope you can calculate how many Mirages are need to launch AND guide that amount of SOWs.
Sir, I never thought that optimism could reach the levels I witnessed today. Anyhow, you are entitled to your opinion.
It appears that the 'narrative' presented by Sameer Joshi is still going strong, although it has more holes in it than the combined amount of PGMs dropped during this standoff. These are the articles written by Sameer Joshi, kindly go through them:
“HELL FOR LEATHER” - Sameer Joshi - Medium
DEBUNKING THE ISPR’s ANTITHESIS OF A PRECISION STRIKE AT BALAKOT - Medium
When you're done, kindly answer the following questions based on what he wrote:
- He says IAF has clear SAR imagery indicating the damage done in the strikes. Exactly what sort of damage was that, which was invisible to 50cm optical imagery? Does India operate SAR assets of resolution less than 50cm? Why didn't the IAF release that SAR imagery?
- He identified the main 30x30m hall as target and found holes in it based on PlanetLabs imagery. But he later said that it wasn't the target. Why didn't the IAF 'sources' tell him the truth from the beginning? After all, IAF knew what it was targeting, right?
- He claimed 6x individual targets struck initially. But later he claimed only 3x holes in a single target? Again, why did his sources not give him consistent information? Why did he switch his claims after the February 27th imagery from ESI was released?
- He identified 3x holes on a singular roof joint of the smaller structure. Is it not possible that the black 'holes' (rather rectangles) he sees are mere single-pixel wide image artifacts, arising due to the sharpening algorithm? How did SOWs from different planes perfectly aligned on a single roof joint along the same line, after gliding for ~40kms? Why didn't the roof dent/collapse 6000lbs of material falling on it at supersonic speeds? Assuming the 'penetrator' theory, why didn't the roof blow off due to use of 3x80kg explosives?
- He claimed that 5x SOWs were employed. But there are 3x bomb craters, plus 3x 'holes', plus 'heap of soil'. So were there actually 7x SOWs employed?
- He said that 'penetration' munitions were used to avoid collateral. But FS Gokhale said that "selection of target was conditioned by our desire to avoid civilian casualties. The facility is located in the thick forest on a hill-top far away from any civilian presence". Then how could there be a need to use 'penetration' munitions? Why didn't IAF sources claimed that penetrators were used right away, rather only after satellite imagery was released by PlanetLabs showing no damage?
- He mentions that the structure had a thin metal roof with a light concrete layer. Considering that air forces all over the world use general-purpose fragmentation munitions with delay fuzes against non-hardened targets to cause maximum casualties and damage, why wouldn't 3x2000lbs general-purpose munitions with simple delay fuzes be enough? How is it possible that they wouldn't inflict max casualties and completely destroy the said structure?
- He said that SPICE itself has the fuze. But as I've explained earlier, the munition has the fuze, SPICE is just a strap-down kit.
- He compares 'penetrator' to BLU116. But the amount of NEQ explosives used for calculations is far below the amount used in BLU116. Also, there is no information of the 'penetrator' available? Who is the OEM of the penetrator? When did IAF induct it?
- He theorizes that 80kg explosive exploded in 3.5m deep rock silo dug by the penetrator. How could the shrapnel kill people protected by a 3.5m deep Basalmic rock? If mere shockwave was enough to inflict casualties, why didn't the same shockwave from 3x 'penetratos' blow apart the walls or roof? How did the shockwave from 3x bombs hitting the same quadrant, travel throughout the structure killing people but failed to blow off any walls?
- He theorized 14kPA overpressure originating from 80kg NEQ explosive as the limit for collapse, and claimed that the overpressure was just below it. Later, he claimed 3x holes in the smaller structure. Wouldn't there be more damage caused by 3x bombs causing more/repeated overpressure hence more damage resulting in collapse of the structure?
- He compared the strikes with Gaza strikes. But they are roof-knock strikes, conducted a few minutes before the actual strikes to drive out the inhabitants. Why would Israeli AF always bomb a target twice if the first strike kills everyone? Why hasn't the Israeli AF ever made the same claim, and instead insisted that they are roof-knock strikes, as evident by the people escaping prior to the actual strike?
- He alleged that ISPR funded international experts. But as I quoted in my previous post, at least 4x neutral observers arrived at the same conclusion, from 2x different sources of satellite imageries? Why has no neutral expert agreed with the Indian version of the events of the Balakot strike? Did ISPR pay everyone to remain silent?
From "locating holes" in the 30x30m shelter to it being not the target at all to "fuel air explosives" to "mass graves" to "penetrators" to Crystal Maze to PAF itself hitting Balakot...it has been an interesting change of narrative, unbecoming of the 4th largest Air Force in the world. I'm surprised that no heads were rolled in the aftermath of the entire episode.
I believe phalcon can do more.
Falcon mentioned electronic signature confirmed F16 kill.
F16 drop tank at the site of mig21 crash..
For us it won't matter whether F16 or mirage 3 went down, why would we get obsessed with F16 kill.
Pak has not come out with any official announcement.
Strangely Lara salingman reported full count of F16s even though Pentagon said it's not aware of it.
From Indian point of view after IAF came out with statement and radar pic, we don't doubt their narrative. And we look up for Pak or US official source s for others to accept it.
I almost took you serious before you started quoting ISPR propaganda word to word. Whats with you people, this is not Pakistani forum we wont sell you out to ISPR if you talk truth, even your most rational ones amazes me at times.
The govt can't reveal SAR images due to sensitivity. They aren't in it for the PR game. In fact, they probably assumed that Pak will deny the strike itself.
Why will IAF tell him anything?
Is he the IAF Chief or NSA or PM to get accurate information?
Fragmentation. They do not do structural damage.
Three geographical locations were hit, one of which is Balakot. Those craters in Balakot have nothing to do with the IAF.
There is a mismatch between the claim and the understanding of the reader. Target was selected based on its remoteness, so that there are no casualties even inadvertently. Penetration munition was used to get through different floors of the building. The Spice can be programmed to hit a specific floor after penetration. So the two statements are unrelated.
The building was multistorey.
IAF didn't have that type of Spice unforntunately. Recently bought some of that building razing type.
Too much speculation on type of penetrator used, possibility of shockwave etc.
That's something for him to answer. It's his speculation after all.
That's something for those experts to answer, whether they agree with Joshi or not.
Narrative? Everything you see is speculation. It becomes a narrative only if the govt participates in it. As far as the govt is concerned, they hit the targets successfully.
Heads need not roll after successful strikes, and their position has not changed since the day of the strikes.
Is that best you can do whining, crying, getting personal? I respect you for being veteran and old but it seems too much respect got to your head so level up.
What's the obsession with Local Host? Do you even know the meaning of it? A google search would have saved you from this embarrassment in public.
Where did I claimed roof getting shifted or structure changing? Are you deluding yourself and imagining things?
I have ignored you time and again for peddling lies and fantasies, claiming one thing and then claiming exactly opposite after few posts and then irony of it saying "told you so". I have not pushed you on many things and gave you a way out every time even after your highly inaccurate claims and so do others out of respect. Why the do you need to leverage it beyond point? Why do want people to call you out on your every inaccurate claim and humiliate you by counters? Giving you a pass just because you are a veteran is not enough?
I know why you are rattled, well get used to it.
That means India does not have assets inside their airforce. Neither officials could sniff the logistics movement and PAF preparation to strike Indian airbases beforehand, even after their ispr chief mentioned that they will hit back!
Very poor state of security! This is why I always say that ISI has spread their assets inside India because PAKISTANIS KNEW THAT INDIA WAS NOT EXPECTING any strike from them the very next Morning of 27th Feb That's why they were confident and came.
IFF I am not wrong, PAF very cleverly camouflaged and fooled our >Radar assessment and analysis of their airspace on 27th before striking.
1) They did not launch all of their aircrafts at the same time. If they had launched it at the same time, Indian radars would have caught them and analysed it as a strike package.
2) What they most probably did is, they sent up their aircrafts one by one very gradually and made it look like a red alert or a normal sortie and waited for the orders.
3) Indian radars picked them as a strike package only when the strength was built and headed towards LOC.
It is not possible that within 24 hours their PAF was ready to hit India hard and such a huge movement of logistics were not detected overnight.
1) They did not launch all of their aircrafts at the same time. If they had launched it at the same time, Indian radars would have caught them and analysed it as a strike package.
2) What they most probably did is, they sent up their aircrafts one by one very gradually and made it look like a red alert or a normal sortie and waited for the orders.
3) Indian radars picked them as a strike package only when the strength was built and headed towards LOC.
It is not possible that within 24 hours their PAF was ready to hit India hard and such a huge movement of logistics were not detected overnight.
Our lapse =/= Enemy competence. Do you actually think the ISI is everywhere? Get real. This forum is taking off from the real world and flying in the realm coke fueled imagination
If they are not every where how could be Pakistanis be so confident that India was not expecting Pakistan to hit back? Some mole was activated overnight to pass on the info of Indian assessment!
And even if India expected a strike, they camouflaged preparations well. Otherwise India would have taken them down before launching their aircrafts.
This simply shows their strikes were covert as well like India did in balakot.
And this is exactly what Ghafooriya was boasting about, by saying that "We also have capability".
India only came to know that it's a strike at the nick of the time.
There is a term - Escalation Matrix - read about it once. India follows the doctrine of proportionate response and measured escalation. India went to great lengths to say the hit in Balakot was on Terrorism and not Pakistan. War is not a neighborhood fist fight where you land your best punches. India could take out the strike package once it took off and formed up in Pak airspace - that would be an act of war. Do you want a shooting war with Pakistan? The GoI decided the time was not right. So the RoE was - dont spank them till they cross the border
When PAF hit our military locations, THAT was a Casus Belli and could have been used to declare war. India was about to hit them nice and hard before the powers that be intervened. Also they got our pilot so that worked in their favor. Pakistanis should install a photo of WC Abhinandan next to Jinnah everywhere.. Jinnah might have created Pakistan but WC Abhinandan had a part in preserving it.
I could not make out head or tail of your statement - This simply shows their strikes were covert as well like India did in balakot.
The strike was detected and intercepted - to a degree.
Gen. Ghafoor is a ...as my school teacher used to say - Bandaran da PT Master. He is adept at making snide comments on India's shortcomings almost like the Pammi Aunties of East Delhi neighborhoods. He is a source of information after applying the necessary filters. Nothing more.
Pakistan did not fit into your so called fancy term known as escalation matrix unfortunately, Lol. War is fought on the basis of ground reports not on the basis of bookish terms. India failed to get info out of PAF HQ on what they were upto and missed the bus. India was really not prepared for the PAF response at all, because Indian officials failed to assess it. And that's the reality. But some how IAF managed to prevent the devastation
Did India stop the war in kargil when Nachiketa was caught? NO! Reason, ISI sponsered media was not allowed to puke and build propaganda. And Neither Govt of India demanded them to return Abhinandan. India was keen to strike them.
That's why I say, India has got ISI donkeys every where.
And FYI, Pak has a new ISI chief, as Asif Munir's tenure was cut short by Immi after meeting Modi. that means ISI was upto something and responsible for Pulwama and other sort of things in India. Other wise why would only he be transferred to other department. This never happened in the history of Pakistan.
My point is, why the logistic movement of PAF and intelligence was not at India's disposal on the evening of 26th Feb. That was my reply to Vstol, for saying India could not assess Pakistan's move.
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Pakistan's story always has been - No terror camps in Pakistan. They claimed India bombed their forest land. Now India does not have any terror camps of its own so who do they hit? They chose the easiest targets close to the LoC. If you actually tone down the rhetoric and try to figure things out, its not that hard. Really.
If you think Imran Khan can fire the ISI Chief, you are connected to the best suppliers. My compliments.
Consider the possibility that FB and Whatsapp are not always reliable sources of information and the media might not be a traitor. Seriously do you wake to the speeches of Zaid Hamid? Guys like you probably search for KGB interrogation videos on Pornhub.
Kargil was a different war. We were fighting for our land. The public was behind the Government. This time there was no war. This whole thing just blew up in everyone's faces. The public chickened out and the Govt. knew it could not press its luck.
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Nice to see you here friend. A knowledgeable guy like should be here and not on that troll forum.
India was not prepared because Modi as per his own words did not expect Pakistan to even acknowledge the Balakot strikes... National security should be based on preparing for the worst, but the Modi government just hoped for the best and left it at that...
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