India - Pakistan Standoff 2019

[thinkingcap81]

The list is the work of Noor Alam from Other Forum, a damn fine OSINT guy. He has extensive information/evidence corroborating each of those kills, mostly from Twitter posts by family members, relatives and neighbors of the slain troops. As such we are fairly confident of the accuracy of the list.

However is that list exhaustive? The answer is no. The areas belonging to AJK/GB, especially areas close to the LOC, have been under a strict internet lockdown since Feb 26,2019 (some regions since 2016). As such it is impossible to dig up information pertaining to slain troops from these regions. Further, there is a strict advisory in effect by ISPR/PA, urging locals to not upload images/information of slain troops. And they have apparently been willing to use coercion to enforce this advisory. Additionally PA has resorted to burying the dead at night with minimal ceremony to avoid optics.

As such Its only the troops from urban/near urban areas where it becomes impossible to hide casualties that we have been able to identiy the dead/wounded. Troops from villages/rural areas are largely ignored, cannot be identified by own analysis.

If not already, by end of 2019, PA casualties (excluding jihadis an BATs) will exceed the figures for 2001-02, the highest in the past 30 years, inclusive of Kargil conflict. Expect casualties (dead and wounded) to exceed 1200.

Sir, what is the reason for PA casualties to be that high compared to IA? Is it mostly because of the dominating position of IA versus PA along the de facto border? Is PA not retaliating because of the disproportionate response IA can give them?

Should we not expect some casualties amongst our forces even if there are far more PA troops getting KIA? I somehow think that IA casualties are very less compared to that stated here about PA.

 

[Arvind]

A country who don't honor it's leader who created their country doesn't deserve any honor.

Jinnah thought Ahmadiyas as muslim.

 

[Arvind]

Sir we also know that we are in a bad situation.we also understand your point and it is clear that Trump is on your side so as a pakistani what can we do? We can only hope but talking about salwar kameez looks weird.i mean even indian people wear it sometimes.he also said that I am joker and entertainer.i don't mind criticism.i even criticized my own country several times and I am banned on PDF until 28 september.i speak what I think.may be you guys are right,may be both are right.i don't know but this joker comment is like a trauma to me.

Someone calling you a joker, online, must not be a trauma for you. Please report abusive posts, we do not differentiate based on nationalities, abuse is not allowed.

 

[_Anonymous_]

Jinnah thought Ahmadiyas as muslim.

Yeah, it's interesting. The Ahmediyas were in the vanguard of the Pakistan movement. Sir Zafrullah Khan a high ranking ICS civil officer was pointsman between the British & the Muslim League - more specifically Jinnah.

You may also be interested in knowing the Ahmediyas in Punjab who have kin in Pakistan and frequently seek marital alliances over there are intensely lobbying the Modi Sarkar for inclusion in the CAB under the pretext that Pakistan doesn't recognize the Ahmediyas as Muslim although in India they're recognized as Muslims.

 

[Arvind]

Yeah, it's interesting. The Ahmediyas were in the vanguard of the Pakistan movement. Sir Zafrullah Khan a high ranking ICS civil officer was pointsman between the British & the Muslim League - more specifically Jinnah.

You may also be interested in knowing the Ahmediyas in Punjab who have kin in Pakistan and frequently seek marital alliances over there are intensely lobbying the Modi Sarkar for inclusion in the CAB under the pretext that Pakistan doesn't recognize the Ahmediyas as Muslim although in India they're recognized as Muslims.

That was one of a kind betrayal from Pakistan to people who rallied for its formation. When these mullahs needed support to create Pakistan, Ahmadiyas were muslims just later to find out they are not.

What a shattered dream for Pakistani ahmadiyas. I am struggling now to feel any sympathy for them after this post.

 

[_Anonymous_]

What a shattered dream for Pakistani ahmadiyas. I am struggling now to feel any sympathy for them after this post.

Absolutely zero sympathies for them. They made their bed. They're welcome to lie in it. And that request to the Modi Government sounded more like a demand. Let me check the net for the article & I shall post the link here.

 

[Tatvamasi]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1176410714472210432

 

[vstol Jockey]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1176410714472210432

Pakistan is asking for serious trouble and I think now a war is a must to teach these idiots a lesson of their lifetime which their generations will remember.

 

[nair]

Dear Members,

Quality of discussion has gone down in last few pages..... we reiterate that all off topic or no value posts will be deleted....

Also request posters to reply to the posts not the posters.... For ex: See how @Falcon replies to @arsalan345.......

Help us in keeping this place clean and maintain qualitative discussion....

Nair

 

[zebra7]

See you are the same people who were cursing Trump on mediation offer,now you think America will take action with India against pakistan.they are your desires and you just can't fulfill it.denuclearization of India is also possible.you have no idea about pakistani strength.we will not leave any pilot this time no matter what.you think our defensive actions are weakness,they are not.

When did I used the term Trump or USA. This is the problem with Pakistani people, the assume too much. And thus unable to see the picture clearly.Jannab try to with the world's eyes. A country full of Jehadis, unstable,unreliable, going toward bankruptsy, leader in spreading global terrorism, and headed by idiot leaders singing NUKE NUKE on daily basis, who think from their knees, why should they have such weapon. Leave aside what is wrong or what is right.

We will see.time is on your side but it will take minutes to change scenario.all chest thumping doesn't bring back happiness.they are just mutual interest.americans always look at their own interest.you shouldn't enjoy american company.

Why do you see the possible tilting of global power toward Pakistan. What's your offer other than continuing Taliban in Afghanistan.

AND what Pakistan does not realise is that the whole world is after China and its stooges like Pakistan and North Korea. China will meet the fate of Germany while Pakistan will meet the fate of Italy. During WW2, after North African campaign, there was a joke that Italian Tanks have one gear forward and five in reverse.
It is as good as the saying in Pakistan, "Do not force us, otherwise we will surrender".

Wrong, we will wait till people of China, uproot the CPC and disabled its private militia called PLA. The real China is yet to get independence.

 

[Sulla84]

Wrong, we will wait till people of China, uproot the CPC and disabled its private militia called PLA. The real China is yet to get independence.

Nope... Any China ... the real China will always be Nationalist, and will be as expansionist as the CCP. Patel, cautioned Nehru, that what passes off as Communism in China is nothing but a virulent form of Nationalism..

 

[Deathstar]

Wrong, we will wait till people of China, uproot the CPC and disabled its private militia called PLA. The real China is yet to get independence.

KMT i e Chinese in Taiwan have even greater ambitions than CPC.

 

[Hellfire]

you guys are making fun just because of this red carpet.even senior member like you,I mean this is unbelievable.we don't make fun of bad economy or condition of people.life is difficult but making fun of prime minister and same begging bowl lines shows hate.

Well, my dear sir, I had sympathy till 2015. After that, sympathy turned to amusement. Now...? What can I say? Pakistan is indeed too predictable.


There is no hate. Hate would be if I said kill, slaughter, etc. We do not allow that kind of non-sense here. Making fun? Yes, of a leadership and people who refuse to see what we saw in 2015 itself. Recall how the Pakistanis would make fun of 'Pakistan Isolated;. Indeed Pakistan is not

Moving ahead. Interesting times.

Let us take the example of what PM Niazi meant when he said that PA and ISI has links with AQ. You think it was a slip? Or a mistake? Or perhaps, it was an attempt at getting some sympathy at the Capitol Hill after it is becoming increasingly clear that Pakistan is going to be blacklisted at FATF (may not happen)?

Why do you think that President Trump said that there was an 'aggressive statement' at HowdyModi event where he was and denied any knowledge of the same? If you notice, never is it done that a statement is made by one leader if another country's leader is on the same dais on a topic which has the potential to embarass/create a difficult position for the leader. Whatever was said by either side is scripted and pre-decided. In the same breadth, POTUS also said that the statement, although made without his being aware of it, was well received in the room and the room had 59000 people (including his staff and his self).

 

[BlackOpsIndia]

What've you got to back your previous claim that India didn't take the US into confidence before the abrogation? And what caused your volte face now?

I posted it before and even in that reply why I think US was not taken onboard for 370 dilution. What volte face are you imagining things? Where did I say otherwise?

It's known as keeping people in the loop.
You're not making any sense.

Ram Madhav told Abdul Basit 4 years ago, similarly at times people say things they wish to do at opportune time to other countries. If you think it's keeping in loop then thank God Indian public finally came out of loop after 2 decades.

Worked out the details? As in? Are you suggesting the GoI reports to the White House?

Whenever a deal is made with US on strategic or policy purpose we automatically "report to WH"? Well that's sensible. You are arguing for sake of it and sometimes attributing things to me I didn't even said, anyway you have a good day I am done with derailing the thread.

 

[Arvind]

Well, my dear sir, I had sympathy till 2015. After that, sympathy turned to amusement. Now...? What can I say? Pakistan is indeed too predictable.


There is no hate. Hate would be if I said kill, slaughter, etc. We do not allow that kind of non-sense here. Making fun? Yes, of a leadership and people who refuse to see what we saw in 2015 itself. Recall how the Pakistanis would make fun of 'Pakistan Isolated;. Indeed Pakistan is not

Moving ahead. Interesting times.

Let us take the example of what PM Niazi meant when he said that PA and ISI has links with AQ. You think it was a slip? Or a mistake? Or perhaps, it was an attempt at getting some sympathy at the Capitol Hill after it is becoming increasingly clear that Pakistan is going to be blacklisted at FATF (may not happen)?

Why do you think that President Trump said that there was an 'aggressive statement' at HowdyModi event where he was and denied any knowledge of the same? If you notice, never is it done that a statement is made by one leader if another country's leader is on the same dais on a topic which has the potential to embarass/create a difficult position for the leader. Whatever was said by either side is scripted and pre-decided. In the same breadth, POTUS also said that the statement, although made without his being aware of it, was well received in the room and the room had 59000 people (including his staff and his self).

We all have seen in physical scuffles, there is a guy who just pretend to hold the aggressive one while threatening the other to mind his ways. Trump is that guy.

 

[Hellfire]

I am not stopping you from criticizing me but salwar kameez and joker and entertainer comment looks weird.i know you guys don't like our presence on defense forums but equal respect should be given to all.i don't wear salwar kameez.i used to wear it when I was kid.i am banned on PDF until September 28. I criticised my country narrative and they banned me for unknown reasons.this begging bowl and hate for army is understandable in India but hate for every pakistani and what he wears looks odd.

Dear @Arsalan123

As stated earlier by a moderator here, you are more than welcome to report the posts which you find offensive and the team here will surely deal with it. At no point will any kind of personalized attack or harassment be tolerated, irrespective of consequences arising of actions taken by team here. If you have noticed, we do not allow derogatory terms to be used and clean up wherever we can. We rely on members for most of the time to adhere to certain norms, hence active moderation will not be very visible.

Banter may be taken as banter where applicable, like one rarely finds it a productive outing to get involved in banter of @_Anonymous_ , @BMD and @Guynextdoor as they have their own weird understanding and it settles of its own soon. One only ends up looking a fool taking their banter seriously as it is usually directed at each other. Mods clean up where things do get out of hand.

On a personal note, please continue to post here and at no point feel unwelcome. While we may not agree at times, I assure you that your attempts to state your opinion/defend your nations position, are indeed respected.

Regards

 

[Sulla84]

Let us take the example of what PM Niazi meant when he said that PA and ISI has links with AQ. You think it was a slip? Or a mistake? Or perhaps, it was an attempt at getting some sympathy at the Capitol Hill after it is becoming increasingly clear that Pakistan is going to be blacklisted at FATF (may not happen)?

Exactly, it was a belated attempt by Imran Khan to say that he is not an establishment puppet, after parroting all the while, that he is on the same page as the establishment. The Pakistan Army and ISI now realise the latitude a truly democratic leader and an independent power centre like Nawaz Sharif affords. US, India and other nations resisted from going too hard on Pakistan, because of the sympathy they had for the civilian leadership, and his endeavours to wrest more power from the establishment. That is not the case now, and there is no buffer for the Pakistan Army.

 

[Star Wars]

Exactly, it was a belated attempt by Imran Khan to say that he is not an establishment puppet, after parroting all the while, that he is on the same page as the establishment. The Pakistan Army and ISI now realise the latitude a truly democratic leader and an independent power centre like Nawaz Sharif affords. US, India and other nations resisted from going too hard on Pakistan, because of the sympathy they had for the civilian leadership, and his endeavours to wrest more power from the establishment. That is not the case now, and there is no buffer for the Pakistan Army.

I think the establishment overplayed their hands. At least the perception that there were two power centres in Pak, helped PA/Establishment to bail them out of tight spots. Now with the opposition being treated like they are and Imran being known quiet clearly as an establishment puppet. They really don't have any backup. Interesting times ahead. Word is Imran does not have too much time left. He might not last another 2-3 Months.

Also if you guys follow the twitter ID @Karachi_Post. He seems to deduce that many of the Generals within PA are very unhappy with Bajwa. Especially after his extension. ISPR suddenly announcing loss of a Major and 10 Soldiers in an accident. While they had kept silent for all these months. It feels weirdly out of place. Few folks in other forum have started asking what good is Bajwa with his extension, if he can't protect his men.

 

[Star Wars]

Intelligence reveal Pakistan secretly working to use radioactive ‘dirty bomb’ in Kashmir | EXCLUSIVE

United States’ Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) has shared an intelligence report with India that exposes Pakistan’s devious design of breaking peace in Jammu and Kashmir. India TV has learned that Pakistan is preparing a “dirty bomb” which will be used from the Pakistan territory that will scatter radioactive materials to cause trouble across the border in India.

Pakistan has found it self isolated in the world especially post the historic August 5 decision of abrogating Article 370 in Jammu and Kashmir. The valley has hardly seen a major terrorist incident post-August 5 and it is learned that Pakistan is desperate to break the peace. However, the “dirty bomb” that Pakistan wants to use against India is another low as the use of radioactive substance falls in the category of nuclear terrorism. The Indian Intelligence agencies like IB and RAW has also briefed the Indian National Security Advisor Ajit Doval of such plans by Pakistan. It is also learned that Pakistan is seeking foreign help to test the “dirty bomb” in a region that falls under the China-Pakistan economic corridor (CPEC).

The United States Homeland Security department FEMA – Federal Emergency Management Agency – has shared a factsheet with Indian intelligence agencies regarding this plan from Pakistan. Pakistan is creating this dirty bomb to destabilize the situation in the Kashmir valley after it has realised all its attempts at selling a false anti-India narrative to the world have failed miserably, sources say.
Abdulla-al-Muhajir, an ISIS thinker, who was arrested by the FBI has confessed to the US law-enforcing agency that ISIS and Afghan militants have got training for nuclear terrorism.

FBI has shared this report with NSA Ajit Doval who will be discussing the matter with his US counterpart while he is with PM Modi on the sidelines of the UNGA.

What is a Dirty Bomb?

A dirty bomb is a radiological device composing of radioactive materials. This is not a device that causes an atomic blast, it uses dynamites and other explosive to scatter radioactive materials which can cause contamination.
In other words – ‘Slow Death’

The device in its natural form will cause major nuclear contamination in a specific region which may not cause mass death toll to rise immediately but will result in wide-spread health hazards which will be catastrophic to comprehend.
OSAMA BIN LADEN, in 1998 said that this kind of weapon is ‘Islamic nuclear bomb’. In the contemporary world, ISIS is giving training to Afghan militants to work with such devices.

Elements of Dirty Bomb?

A dirty bomb comprises of many elements, most times it is a mixture of multiple radioactive elements in an unstable form to cause maximum damage. Some of the major elements used are Caesium 137 With active 50 TB 9, Americum 241, Californium – 252, Caesium -137,Cobalt - 6 B, Iridium – 192, Plutonium – 238, Polonium – 210, Radium – 226, Stronitum 90

Pakistan eyes nuclear terrorism through this “dirty bomb”

Pakistan has been constantly trying to hamper India’s image on the world stage. It has explored all its viable territory and is yet to find success. Pakistan’s words of hate have fallen on deaf ears as far as international community is concerned.
Over the last few decades Pakistan has used its tactics of proxy wars and ‘bleed India by a thousand wounds’ to infiltrate terrorists into the Kashmir valley and hope to create unrest. Pakistan already tried this strategy in 1948 and then in ‘Operation Gibraltar’ in 1965 and failed both times. And now with FATF keeping a close eye on every move made by Pakistan, there is little scope for manoeuvre in the proxy war domain. Hence, Pakistan has come up with a new way to create unrest in India – Dirty Bomb.

What will be the aftereffects if a dirty bomb is indeed exploded?

If a dirty bomb is exploded and radioactive contamination takes place, the aftereffects can be catastrophic. Radioactive particle can spread over multiple means and pollute the very basic needs of life. The effects of such radioactive contamination will be visible long term. Loss of life can be unimaginable. Meanwhile, Ajit Doval is also preparing a dossier where he will list out Pakistan’s direct role in sponsoring terrorism from its soil. Pakistan is also planning to send the Taliban militants in Kashmir to disturb the peace. It is learnt that Pakistan has trained close to 15 terrorists to carry out attacks in India.
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IndiaTV, so I find this a wee bit doubtful. But they claim that the Intel source is shared by FBI. Is FBI involved in external intelligence gathering ?

 

[Gautam]

Avoid politicisation of UN listing, FATF: PM Modi at UN anti-terror meet