India vs China - War Gaming Scenarios : Related News , Updates , Discussions & Analysis .
- Thread starter _Anonymous_
- Start date
No Su-30SM has been shot down in aerial combat. Most have been lost on ground in enemy fire or lost because of MANPADS.
India Beware Of Copycat Chinese Air Force
It is amply clear that just like any nation, India and its enemies have both advantages and disadvantages in their systems and equipment. Now it is up to India how it takes advantage of the enemy’s vulnerabilities while overcoming its own.chanakyaforum.com
It's a major problem.
Just in few years, we shall have our own counter. Fighting defensively, even 270 MKI UPG fleet with Astra 3 is good enough to defend us against Chinese Flankers.
Just in few years, we'll also have plenty of AESA radar equipped fighters in our inventory.
They are definitely overwhelming. A modernized Flanker with AESA radar, dual-pulse AESA seeker equipped long range BVRM and QWIP based IRST in a well-trained hands can wreck havoc on any enemy. J-10C is also a dangerous plane. Add another fighter like VLO J-20 in the fray and the PLAAF starts to look daunting. But I still believe that IAF can defeat PLAAF in fight.
Logistics. IAF can muster much more versus PLAAF than what USAF can.
The timeline is the problem. A full squadron of Mk1A will be delivered only by 2025. An MKI squadron in 2026 at best. We could very well end up fighting China in 2024, worst case.
The USAF on its own, no. But the USAF is supported by the USN and JASDF. Combined the two services can bring as many jets as the entire IAF.
When the Chinese Theeat is Real and Current , why have not purchased more RAFALES
Are we going to Rely only on Missiles
His conclusion is wrong because his timelines are wrong. He's considered the Chinese will get the J-20 only by 2030, but they are just 2 years away at worst.
Then he's assumed the PLAN will match the USN only in the 2050s in terms of tonnage, but that's incorrect. At their current pace, they will surpass the USN by 2035. But what's more important is regional, theater-level numbers. Since the USN has to manage the entire globe, they have only 60% of their forces arrayed against China at the moment. The Chinese only need to be bigger than the USN in the Pacific for now, not the entire globe. Against Taiwan, the situation is even worse because they almost have the theater-level numbers necessary to fight the USN already. Both sides have 90-100 large battleforce ships and the Chinese have numerous small battleforce ships like corvettes too.
It's unclear if they are making a mistake or not. They either believe the current lot of Rafales are not sufficient, or they would rather spend their money on more pressing needs to plug holes while waiting for MRFA to deliver instead. It's also possible they believe new Rafales won't make it in time for a war so they decided to spend elsewhere.
It's also likely they don't believe a war in the short term will escalate to the point where more Rafales are necessary. Which could also be a mistake.
SAMs for air defence and CMs and BMs for deep strike are practically guaranteed, as are suicide drones.
They won't rely only on missiles because Rafales and upgraded M2000s are capable of penetrating Chinese defences silently.
True. But if they attack, IAF will fight with whatever it can muster. And PLAAF will find all about IAF's prowess in that case(and it may not be a pleasant one for them).
I think we need Astra 2 in huge numbers as soon as possible. With AESA seeker and over 200kms long range it is going to be a very vital part of our war with PLAAF.
Chinese will attack all the logistic bases of American forces, which means both Japan and Guam will be targeted.
On stark contrast, it is going to be impossible for them to cripple our logistic base in any war. IAF can scatter its resources all across the country and really stretch the Chinese. USAF doesn't have that luxury.
The real battle is between PLAAF/PLAN vs USN. That will determine the fate of Taiwan and the world too in future.
I hope we already have 100-200 Derby ERs in our inventory. It's gonna take time for Mk2 to deliver.
The Americans are a one-trick pony. The ground forces are heavily dependent on the USAF ensuring nothing bombs them from the sky. So if they lose air superiority, it's over for them.
The war with America will be far more hi-tech and far more dangerous than the one with India.
Has anyone wargamed what exactly is the US+ alllies response going to be once China commences it's invasion of Taiwan ? It can't arm Taiwan like it did Ukraine as the former's an island . Or do people here envisage an air land campaign like the Normandy beach landings by US+ allies a la WW-2 ? Whether in Taiwan or worst case scenario on mainland China ?
Isn't it more likely this is going to be an air sea campaign ? PLAN + PLAAF + PLARF + PLA Expeditionary Force vs USN + USMC + USAF ?
Isn't it more likely this is going to be an air sea campaign ? PLAN + PLAAF + PLARF + PLA Expeditionary Force vs USN + USMC + USAF ?
Did we procure Derby-ER for our SPYDER batteries or only i-Derby? Because integration with MKI is complete, so if IAF already possess Derby-ER then they will definitely use it against PLAAF in any aerial war. Even Tejas should be able to fire it.
This is true. That's why J-20+J-16+J-10C combo is so important for China to break USAF/USN premier war fighting prowess. On the other hand if F-22+F-35+F/A-18E combo prevails, it's over for China. Their dream of ruling this earth will shatter.
Airpower is going to be vital and at the crux of this future inevitable war.
In the recent Red Flag exercise USAF/Allies just did a massive simulation of a war against China:
Full article here: Eurofighters, F-22 Raptors, EA-18G Jets Hold Drills To 'Liberate' Taiwan From Chinese Military Invasion?
They need to be practising these manoeuvres with Japan & Taiwan included or at least Japan knowing the Chinese would raise a storm over such participation by Taiwan in these exercises.
In that case they ought to prepare using an island for their war gaming exercises to simulate conditions of Taiwan as close as possible.
Further it seems as if the US is preparing for a post invasion strike on China not something that'd unfold immediately as soon as China launches their invasion . They may also go by the book & try to get a UNSC resolution to strengthen their case which is easier said than done given Chinese & Russian veto .
In a way it's good coz along with the US invasion of Iraq in 2003 all these subsequent moves only go towards discrediting the existing structure at the UN . Strengthens our case for reform post war & a place at the high table.
I expect Europe except UK to sit it out . They stand to benefit the most in a post war scenario since all the participants would be in a pretty bad shape. Of course this presumes they'd get out of the present crisis relatively intact . I see the US will do it's utmost along with it's minions in Europe & Russia on the other side to prevent such an outcome . Then again there's no guarantee once war breaks out in the Pacific Russia will not pursue it's unfinished agenda in Europe.
Coming back to the topic the response by the US + allies may be a long drawn out affair before we see actual action on the ground .
Whoever gains air superiority over Taiwan wins. If the Chinese lose in the air, they won't even attempt an invasion.
Answer to What is the radar cross section (RCS) of the J-20 fighter? How does it stack up against the RCS of F-22 and F-35? by Abhirup Sengupta What is the radar cross section (RCS) of the J-20 fighter? How does it stack up against the RCS of F-22 and F-35?
Bit longer than I thought, but this provides a detailed overview of serious challenges involved in potential invasion of Taiwan and why P...
Bit longer than I thought, but this provides a detailed overview of serious challenges involved in potential invasion of Taiwan and why PLA doesn’t have the capability to pull off an invasion anytime soon, successfully that is. https://qr.ae/pvfH9D
Check out the comments as well in this & the previously linked post .
This guy is an American fanboy, don't take his post too seriously. J-20 from front meets the VLO criteria(even if exact RCS is more than F-22/F-35), and that is worrisome for every other AF that looks to challenge PLAAF.
Plus his point about :
"This might be the reason for PLAAF’s emphasis on longer-range AAMs like PL-21 despite transitioning to a LO fleet in the future which would allow J-20 to engage from greater distances than you’d expect from a LO aircraft."
What is the radar cross section (RCS) of the J-20 fighter? How does it stack up against the RCS of F-22 and F-35?
Abhirup Sengupta's answer: There is no published RCS for J-20 unlike the F-22 or F-35, which is well in line with China’s unique case of obscuring any meaningful data when it comes to their Fighters among other things. This makes it very difficult to reliably analyse J-20 and is worth keeping in ...
.......is absolutely ridiculous. Does this guy even know the length of PL-21? It is over 5 meters(speculated 5.5 meters) and is exclusively designed for J-16. It is not at all for J-20.
Plus, J-20 can sneak up towards enemy's force multipliers as well as F-22 and F-35 can. In fact, to take high value aerial and ground based targets is J-20's no. 1 priority.
He appears to be an Indian American. No clue if he's actually one though. He's heavily biased towards the US & disparaging towards the Russians & also the Chinese but not as much as the Russians. Never came across him before but then again I don't log into Quora at all . I like the way he's framed his arguments though with the references & citations he's provided unlike PKS & .... erm , let's not go there .This guy is an American fanboy, don't take his post too seriously. J-20 from front meets the VLO criteria(even if exact RCS is more than F-22/F-35), and that is worrisome for every other AF that looks to challenge PLAAF.
Plus his point about :
"This might be the reason for PLAAF’s emphasis on longer-range AAMs like PL-21 despite transitioning to a LO fleet in the future which would allow J-20 to engage from greater distances than you’d expect from a LO aircraft."
What is the radar cross section (RCS) of the J-20 fighter? How does it stack up against the RCS of F-22 and F-35?
Abhirup Sengupta's answer: There is no published RCS for J-20 unlike the F-22 or F-35, which is well in line with China’s unique case of obscuring any meaningful data when it comes to their Fighters among other things. This makes it very difficult to reliably analyse J-20 and is worth keeping in ...www.quora.com
.......is absolutely ridiculous. Does this guy even know the length of PL-21? It is over 5 meters(speculated 5.5 meters) and is exclusively designed for J-16. It is not at all for J-20.
Plus, J-20 can sneak up towards enemy's force multipliers as well as F-22 and F-35 can. In fact, to take high value aerial and ground based targets is J-20's no. 1 priority.
No clue how much of it is accurate though . Some of it went over my head . In order to understand everything he's put out I'd have to do extensive reading up on the progress of radar technology especially in the last 3-4 decades which frankly makes for heavy reading especially for some one with a mech engg background . Electronics & Electrical engg doesn't come naturally to them .
He is using analysis by F-16.net member GarryA. GarryA has used simulations to compare RCS of F-35 vs J-20 vs Su-57.
Problem with such analysis is that computer may tell you the exact RCS in each frequency based upon shape analysis. But it will have no idea about the RAM and RAS used.
All stealth planes are now using a special Carbon-Nano-tube based fiber mat. It has wide-band RF absorption properties.
Good news is that our scientists at DRDO have also cracked it and our AMCA will have it. This is the material which I argued about putting in Su-30MKI to change its Aluminium/Titanium skin.