Indian Air Force : Updates & Discussions

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There should be quite a few import deals in the works. The ongoing negotiations with Russia for one, like the T-90MS, AK-203 and Ka-226T. Some deals with America will also be signed, like more P-8Is, the UCAVs as well. Then there are the 2 Phalcons with Israel.
T90MS , AK203 can be pushed under Make in India projects.

Rafale or Phalcon procurement comes as off the shelf procurements. Thats what i meant will suffer more delays.

Only very critical procurements will happen off the shelf. For navy it will be more MH60R and P8I. For IAF it will be more Rafales and maybe 2 more phalcons. For Army its gonna be CAR816 and SA24 maybe.
 

In a path breaking achievement, the Defence R&D Organisation (DRDO) has indigenously developed an “electronic warfare” (EW) system for the Indian Air Force’s (IAF’s) fleet of 60 MiG-29 fighters. Yet, when buying EW systems for the Tejas Mark 1A fighter that Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) is developing, the aerospace firm signed a contract on October 26 with Israeli firm, Elta – a subsidiary of Israel Aerospace Industries (IAI). The indigenous EW system was developed under “Project D-29” by the Defence Avionics Research Establishment (DARE), a DRDO laboratory, in partnership with Israeli firm, Elisra and Italian firm Elettronica. The IAF, delighted with the outcome of Project D-29, is about to accord it final acceptance. Bharat Electronics Ltd (BEL) will manufacture the indigenous EW systems for upgrading the MiG-29 fleet. Under the Defence Procurement Procedure of 2016 (DPP-2016), the D-29 EW system falls squarely in the category of “Indian designed, developed and manufactured” (IDDM) equipment, the highest priority for procurement. DPP-2016 mandates that, if equipment is available under the IDDM category, it cannot be procured under other categories – such as “Buy Global” or “Buy and Make (India)”. This is to sponsor Indian design and development of equipment. Yet, the Ministry of Defence (MoD) and the IAF, disregarding the success of Project 29 and its IDDM status, permitted HAL to buy the Israeli Elta EW system. The Israeli government scuttled the Project D-29 EW system, say highly placed industry sources. The Israeli MoD did not allow Elisra – a key player in the D-29 system – to participate in HAL’s tender for an EW system for Tejas Mark 1A. Instead, the Israeli MoD nominated state owned firm, Elta. The Israeli government has not responded to Business Standard queries. Given the volume of business the IAF provides Israeli firms, it is unclear why the IAF could not persuade the Israeli MoD to allow Elisra to participate, so as to standardise the indigenous D-29 EW system across the upgraded Tejas fleet, as well as the MiG-29UPG. The indigenous system could also have been retrofitted on the 120-aircraft Jaguar fleet, which is currently being upgraded. On January 10, 2017, Elisra wrote to the IAF boss, Air Chief Marshal BS Dhanoa, pointing out that the D-29 system is “an indigenous system jointly developed with DRDO… [and] shall be produced in India by BEL and qualifies for IDDM categorization.” Stating that the equipment commonality with the MiG-29 would allow “considerable savings in maintenance and operational support”, Elisra requested that the D-29 EW system be nominated for the Tejas Mark 1A. which the IAF did not respond to. Contacted for comments, the MoD and IAF have not responded. The Elta EW system is now going to be fitted in 83 Tejas Mark 1 fighters, which the MoD sanctioned for Rs 33,000 crore (Rs 330 billion) last December. The Tejas Mark 1A is being developed because the IAF is dissatisfied with the current Mark 1 version, of which 40 are being built. To overcome their operational shortcomings, the IAF, HAL and the MoD agreed in September 2015 on specifications for a new improved version (Tejas Mark 1A), which would have five specific improvements – including an upgraded EW system, AESA radar and the Meteor long-range air-to-air missile. An EW system, which uses the electromagnetic spectrum to obtain combat advantage, will be crucial for the Tejas Mark 1A’s combat edge. In the Rafale fighter, many of the expensive “India specific enhancements” consisted of EW systems. An integrated EW system includes several elements: First, a “radar warning receiver” (RWR), which detects when an enemy aircraft’s radar picks up one’s own aircraft. A “radar lock” would indicate the enemy is firing an air-to-air missile, warning the pilot to start evasive measures. A second EW system component is the “missile approach and warning system” (MAWS), which picks up electromagnetic radiations from an incoming missile, cueing the pilot to initiate defensive manoeuvres, or to deploy countermeasures to confuse the incoming missile. A third EW measure is “radar warning and jamming” (RWJ). This involves detecting enemy radar and then confusing and blinding it with concentrated electromagnetic pulses. Fighter aircraft can carry a jammer in an external pod under its wing. Alternatively, the function could be carried out by “escort jammers” (EJ), mounted on a single aircraft within a group of fighters on a strike mission. Finally, EW systems include “countermeasure dispensing systems” (CMDS), to defeat incoming missiles detected by the RWR or MAWS, or even infrared seeking missiles that home in on heat sources rather than rely on radar. The CMDS releases a cloud of metal strips, called chaff, which create a false signature of a fighter aircraft, towards which the incoming missile gets diverted. Alternatively, the CMDS fires flares in rapid succession, their heat signatures confusing IR-seeking air-to-air missiles. DRDO sources point out that the D-29 based system integrates all these functions, while legacy systems operate the functions individually.


AS per this article, Mig 29 UPG which got D-29 EW system which incorporates MAWS, perhaps the first IAF jet to have besides Rafale?
 
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I think @randomradio knows why this was the case.

AFAIK, LCA Mk1A will get a DARE-made EW suite, but the jammer will be imported from Elta.

The jammer has to be imported since the Indian developed one doesn't fit inside the aircraft, the LCA is too small.

I don't think there is any plan to completely import the EW suite entirely from Israel, like what the article is insinuating. And I believe HAL has only placed orders for the jammer only. Plus this is an Ajai Shukla article, so pinch of salt.
 
AFAIK, LCA Mk1A will get a DARE-made EW suite, but the jammer will be imported from Elta.

The jammer has to be imported since the Indian developed one doesn't fit inside the aircraft, the LCA is too small.

I don't think there is any plan to completely import the EW suite entirely from Israel, like what the article is insinuating. And I believe HAL has only placed orders for the jammer only. Plus this is an Ajai Shukla article, so pinch of salt.
Isn't the SPJ supposed to be externally mounted, even otherwise given the paucity of space within the Mk1a? You're making it out as if the DARE manufactured jammer can't be mounted inside of the aircraft whereas the one manufactured by ELTA can.
 
Isn't the SPJ supposed to be externally mounted, even otherwise given the paucity of space within the Mk1a? You're making it out as if the DARE manufactured jammer can't be mounted inside of the aircraft whereas the one manufactured by ELTA can.

Yeah, I think that statement was a bit ambiguous there. The Elta SPJ is supposed to be mounted externally because DRDO doesn't have an external pod of that class of their own. The one they are developing for MKI is too big.

One outboard pylon will carry the pod instead of the WVR missile. And the other pylon will carry 2 WVR missiles on dual racks in teh strike role. It's a half-as*ed measure, like on the Mig-21 and MKI, but we have no choice.
 
I don't think D 29 also includes MAWS. It is not listed in the official DRDO website.

 
No MAWS on the Mig-29UPG.
No MAWS on Mk1a too, although PKS was speculating on pylon mounted MAWS exclusively manufactured by an European countries. In which case not going in for the D-29 doesn't make sense. Unless it's not as sophisticated as the ELTA EW package.
 
No MAWS on Mk1a too, although PKS was speculating on pylon mounted MAWS exclusively manufactured by an European countries. In which case not going in for the D-29 doesn't make sense. Unless it's not as sophisticated as the ELTA EW package.

Pylon mounted MAWS is possible for any jet. Although I doubt the IAF is interested in it.
 

'Cause it's not really that important. It's like APS on tanks, the basic tech is still not advanced enough to be reliable.

MAWS have high false alarm rates. Ground based lasers can also interfere with MAWS. And the best anti-SAM techniques are still avoidance, jamming and evasion using eyeball Mk1.

And newer modern aircraft coming in have MAWS alongside other more advanced tech to deal with SAMs, like Rafale, so they can take over the most dangerous missions, which LCA is unlikely to do anyway. Plus, long range weapons are primarily used to deal with SAMs, like KH-31P, ALARM, NGARM etc, so the MAWS will not be in use as much as one believes.
 
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Although this is slightly old (2018), sharing as it has some important details (which may have been already shared/discussed earlier:
  • LCA MK1 had the best weapon delivery scores during GaganShakti. IAF considers it to be technologically relevant at least for the next 20 years.
  • IAF expects LCA MK2 (MWF) to be ready for induction by 2028/30 to replace (in order) Mig 29 (in 10 years), Jaguar (in 15 years) and Mirages (in 20 years).
  • The benchmark for MWF in terms of performance has been set to Mirage 2000 (a 35 years old aircraft) along with cutting edge electronics and weapons. (IAF considers the expectations to be very realisting and was set keeping the capabilities of ADA in mind.. not aiming for the moon but for some space - very reasonable!)
  • AMCA is a long term project. The 1st and 2nd prototypes (NGTD1 and NGTD2) are expected to be ready only by 2033 (15 years). (This is contrary to the unrealistic claims made by ADA/HAL. There have been reports that AMCA TD will be ready by 2025-26).
  • A New Generation Anti Radiation Missile (RUDRAM 1) is under development (Is RUDRAM 1 different from NGRAM?)
  • IAF was not happy with MRSAM when it was deployed during URI crisis. It was sent back to the drawing board. In total 18 firing units have been ordered.

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MoD need to give a warning to these retired Gernails, Marshalls, admirals to keep there mouth s**t and stop giving interviews specially to foreigners.

Relax dude. Nothing is discussed about the aircraft and its abilities which is not available in public domain.

@vstol Jockey should do one on Sea Harrier!