The order for 36 was independent from the 126 jet order.
Possible. But all the hurdles faced during the implementation of the previous deal have been resolved. This includes the financial hurdle.
In case MRFA fails, we will likely take up Russia's Su-57, perhaps a Su-60.
And not 2030, minimum 2033.
France's stealth combat drone to support Rafale F5 by 2033
France reveals plans for a stealth combat drone to support the Rafale F5 standard, operational by 2033. It will leverage the achievements of the nEUROn program.
www.aerotime.aero
It will be a new generation Rafale.
“When the F5 standard comes out, the plane will be very different,” General Stéphane Mille, then-French Air Force Chief of Staff, said in a parliamentary hearing. “The computing capacities to process hundreds of thousands of pieces of information require wiring that the Rafale as we know it today is not capable of supporting.”
If that's what you're saying, then the MMRCA project has been fruitless for a quarter of a century from 2001 to today? If it were China, the 2001 fighter jets would be nearing the end of their life today
Well, let's see what kind of plan will India come up with to attract the world's aircraft manufacturers
How high price will India pay to buy SU57 from
And what's the Su-60?
What's the big deal about Dassault's announcement that Rafale can work with drones?
Why should India get excited about this? Has India announced that its next fighter will be Rafale?
Yes. But it has very high chance of success this time.
We are bridging the gap with LCAs.
Same as before. Large tender.
The French are offering a lot of tech.
How high price will India pay to buy SU57 from
I don't think it's expensive, thanks to Russia's new exchange rate.
During FGFA, although more technology was added, the JV amount fell from $5.5B to $3.7B 'cause of Crimea sanctions in 2014. Now, it's worse.
Su-27 > Su-30.
Su-57 > Su-60.
Generally, within the same generation, French tech is more advanced than American tech.
Very likely to win due to Dassault's investment in India via two Rafale deals. The main competitor is Typhoon, its smaller orders and lack of presence in India will make it comparatively more expensive. Other competitors are not as good as they are a generation behind.
MK1a is , facing delay due to integration of avionics & engin issue.
MRFA not even started the evaluation.
MK2 is in drawing board.
AMCA,seriously?
Ah, full of wishful thinking, thinking that the Russians will use domestic purchase price to sell to you, thinking that the French will take you very seriously, Indonesia and Egypt are similar to India's orders, but do not have India's habit of delaying 20 years, and do not ask for so much technology transfer.
How did you come to this conclusion? Through Dassault's promotional materials? You could have seen the technological gap between France and the US by openly comparing the Mirage 2000 and the F-16 from the same era.
Just comparing the engines, the M53 is a single-rotor engine that is essentially a turbojet engine modified, with a poor T/W ratio of 6. The F110, on the other hand, is a brand new, third-generation, high-thrust turbofan engine with a T/W ratio of 8. It features a dual-rotor design, and you can see the huge difference between the two engines.
Mk1A engine delay is a month away from fixing. Avionics bit is already done. And production is going on as planned anyway.
Mk2 just builds on Mk1, a now proven jet. MRFA is based on a proven platform too. Both are low risk and the IAF is confident about getting both.
AMCA is high risk. There's plenty of time for next gen stopgaps if it fails; FGFA, GCAP, NGAD, FCAS etc. So let's worry about that later.
Both US and France are willing to offer cutting edge tech. Take the F414, the US is offering 80% technology and 100% manufacturing process. For AMCA's engine, France is offering 100% technology, 100% intellectual property, 100% manufacturing process and will train our scientists and engineers to design and manufacture next gen materials.
When it comes to the Rafale, the French are offering 70% technology versus India's demand of 50%. They are willing to provide 100% technology for the airframe and engine.
Even if India delays its deals, they are willing to wait.
As for Russia, India benefitted from the drop in exchange rate in 2018 for the S-400 deal versus China's deal in 2014. Even if they sell at higher than domestic price, they will still sell it significantly cheaper than the West does. In any case, if the sanctions on Russia persist even after the war, the Russians plan to make India a manufacturing hub for the export of their products through joint ventures with Indian companies.
In my memory, India has received 100% technology transfer several times, I can think of, maybe not all, Jaguars, MIG21, Su-30, early India also wanted to produce Mirage 2000 locally, it is heartening to hear so many times of complete technology transfer, we can sit here today, Discuss the engine problems of the MAK1A and when it will be delivered to the Indian Air Force
India's never received 100% in anything. This will be the first time.
The "engine problems" of Mk1A is from American factories, not Indian.
So the question is, what is an F404 engine? A very advanced engine? Oh no, it's just an ordinary third generation turbofan engine with similar performance to the rd 33. Since India can produce the al 31 engine from scratch and have introduced many Western engines before, why can't they produce an engine similar to the f404?
Remember you once said that India has all the technology to produce Su-30 and AL31 from scratch, isn't that 100% guaranteed?
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We don't copy. But we have our own Kaveri instead.
This engine will be equipped on our stealth drone.
Anyway in order to prevent confusion, I'd recommend using Western definition of generations. Kaveri is 4th gen. It's flat-rated and more advanced than F404.
I gave you the numbers. It's 87.7% for AL-31FP.
We have Indianised the whole engine and increased its thrust rating and improved SFC, but the Russians have to certify it. The IAF wants the Russian certification but HAL is ready to install the engine on the MKI for the mid-life upgrade without certification. The Russians want to sell their own upgrade obviously. They prefer selling the AL-41F1S instead.
Once again, we do not copy foreign tech, we design our own.
By not copying Western or Russian designs, they are more willing to set up advanced manufacturing in India. For example, two or three aviation companies want to manufacture business jets in India. Dassault is the first one.
You are right, Chinese engines are copied, our Indian engines are so perfect, so advanced, and international cooperation, With his own intellectual property, and where he is oh, I'm sorry, it well be used in our perfect stealth drone of the future, which he once exploded on a Russian IL-78 transport plane
I don't know exactly what India thinks now, when will the production line of f404 in the United States run normally? Can India's order of less than 100 engines support the operation of the f404 engine production line? It's the pain of not having your own engine.
India has imported countless technologies, many of which are very advanced in China's view, but India does not have the capacity to absorb them. All that can be done in India is to beg in front of Lord Shiva for f404 engines as soon as possible
Guess you don't know, but F404 market size is thousands of engines. India's F404 order is a drop in the bucket.
Apart from Korea's T-50/FA-50, the USAF has chosen to build 384 T-7 Red Hawks. There are two more programs for 600 planes in the US which Red Hawk is competing for. Boeing/Saab hope to sell 3000+ Red Hawks over its lifetime.
The Turks also want F404 for the Hurjet.
F414 for Mk2 will be produced in India.
By the way, I almost forgot the T-7 trainer, so let's see when HAL can deliver the first one to IAF, when India will order 99 F404s in 2021, India announced that it has three production lines, claiming that it can produce a maximum of 24 fighters, we will see when the maximum production rate can be reached.
A number of jets are ready. 2 main lines are operational and the third line is expected to deliver the first jet in a month or two. So max production is entirely dependent on engine deliveries. GE claims they will start deliveries from November.
This is such a stupid statement.
If kaveri is more advanced then why aren't we producing & inducting it??
It's because it doesn't work for the standards required and F404 does.
These kind of statements is really takes a toll on your credibility.
Don't be delusional or India strong kind of guy.
Kaveri delivers 73 KN thrust compared to its original 81 KN objective. So an 85 KN F404 was chosen for the now overweight LCA.
Now they've removed the afterburner section and decided to use Kaveri for our stealth UCAV, which is obviously a far more advanced program than LCA. The dry part of the engine was a success.
Anyway, Kaveri is more advanced because it's a variable cycle engine. Plus it's flat rated, so at higher altitudes, while the F404 loses thrust, like any other engine, the Kaveri maintains high thrust. At 81 KN, it delivers more thrust than 85 KN F404 due to its higher ambient temperature rating.
Kaveri's main problem is it used materials and manufacturing processes a generation behind tthe F404. So that means the design of the engine was superior to the F404.
Anyway, had LCA maintained its original empty weight of 5.5T, we would have continued with Kaveri. LCA's weight increase by 1T meant we needed an extra ton of thrust, so the enhanced India-specific F404.
GTRE has restarted work on Kaveri to get the desired 81KN thrust, as per the original program objective. Possibly for FUFA. But I won't be surprised if F404 is replaced during MLU.
