Indian Army Artillery Systems : News and Updates

[Ankit Kumar]

No clue.

Nope. Its an ULH. Low weight is primary goal. Carry only as much as needed.
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Apart from the additional requirement of 500 more 155/39 ULH in addition to the 145 procured for purposes all along the LoC and LAC , this Kalyani project if successful will see cutting into possible 155/52 ATAGS/Dhanush numbers which is to replace the towed units along the IB. Erstwhile D30 equipped units and even IFG equipped units. The titanium ones for LOC/LAC and steel ones for IB.

 

[Hydra]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1311603858909536256

As expected.

Apart from the additional requirement of 500 more 155/39 ULH in addition to the 145 procured for purposes all along the LoC and LAC , this Kalyani project if successful will see cutting into possible 155/52 ATAGS/Dhanush numbers which is to replace the towed units along the IB. Erstwhile D30 equipped units and even IFG equipped units. The titanium ones for LOC/LAC and steel ones for IB.

IB is a perfect place of Tracked artillery, unlike towed or wheel mounted one, it doesn't need ant elephant leg or similar mechanism to fire the round. We should order more K9 Vajras for IB border, a perfect platform for shoot & scoot strategy.

 

[Gautam]

Apart from the additional requirement of 500 more 155/39 ULH in addition to the 145 procured for purposes all along the LoC and LAC , this Kalyani project if successful will see cutting into possible 155/52 ATAGS/Dhanush numbers which is to replace the towed units along the IB. Erstwhile D30 equipped units and even IFG equipped units. The titanium ones for LOC/LAC and steel ones for IB.

OFB will start crying again if Kalyani ULH bite into their market. Won't the numbers increase at all ? The 500 figure was set a few years back.

IB is a perfect place of Tracked artillery, unlike towed or wheel mounted one, it doesn't need ant elephant leg or similar mechanism to fire the round. We should order more K9 Vajras for IB border, a perfect platform for shoot & scoot strategy.

We should've ordered the K9 follow on by now to L&T if we were smart.

 

[Hydra]

OFB will start crying again if Kalyani ULH bite into their market. Won't the numbers increase at all ? The 500 figure was set a few years back.

We should've ordered the K9 follow on by now to L&T if we were smart.

Problem is we are not smart, we dont respect the time. The L&T were assured follows on orders & they ramped up the production rate. Asper latest report, the production line will close by the end of the year.
The only reason why C17 Galaxy is not seen in numbers with IAF is because of this lethargic way to finalising a decision, by the time we decided to go for extra c17 the production facilities were shut down and most of the white tail specimens were sold out same case with follow on apache, Second lot apaches fly away cost is much.more than the first deal, reason is they didn't order within the time frame set.

 

[Ankit Kumar]

OFB will start crying again if Kalyani ULH bite into their market. Won't the numbers increase at all ? The 500 figure was set a few years back.

Around 600 guns for LAC/LOC is more than enough. Remember there are only so many guns we can airlift during an offensive along those mountains.

And the airlift capability means every pound counts. So titanium, so more costs. So only a limited number.

Once we move down the IB, weight restrictions aren't as stringent. And a variety of artillery pieces can come into picture imo. The steel one mounted on trucks will be a great solution.

 

[Ankit Kumar]

We should've ordered the K9 follow on by now to L&T if we were smart.

The problem is that we are so smart that we find ways to not do the work so as to avoid any kind of responsibility and in that process keep our pensions safe.

 

[hellbent]

Kalyani ATAGS

 

[randomradio]

After a nationalist govt came to power, nationalist generals and officers also came to power, hence the push back against OFB. And now, OFB is being taken to task. First phase: Corporatisation. Second phase: Belt tightening (losing flab). Third phase: Disinvestment.

The first step was to create alternate suppliers, the process began in 2016 and is still ongoing. The results have been very good.

The second step was to reduce the army's flab, like the restructuring of the workshops.

The third step is to cut off the DDP's influence on the DGQA and bring corruption down to zero, if possible. The DDP within the MoD is a sh!thole of corruption and is now being restructured, along with the DGQA. Also, the DGQA is being moved under the army so that the DDP cannot put pressure on the DGQA to clear substandard weapons and ammo. Currently, the DGQA runs in parallel to the army, is headed by a Lt General and absorbs Lt Cols who could not become Cols in the army, but are awarded the Col rank upon moving to the DGQA (not sure how well that's been working out though). So the DDP, headed by civilians, and the DGQA, run by the army in the near future, will be significantly less integrated thereby reducing the hold the civilian bureaucracy had over the military bureaucracy. Most likely following the Shekatkar Committee's recommendations.

The fourth step is to corporatise OFB with a perform or perish ultimatum.

In the meantime, the govt will continue to give the OFB some ongoing projects (Dhanush, T-90 etc) and new projects (AK-203) in order to prevent worker strikes getting in the way of the army's supplies and also creating election hurdles, while also diversifying suppliers in areas where OFB has been delayed or completely failed, like the Pinaka rockets and artillery guns.

Restructuring the DGQA and corporatisation of OFB signals the start of the war on corruption within the MIC.

@Falcon @vstol Jockey
What's your opinion on all this?

 

[Chain Smoker]

After a nationalist govt came to power, nationalist generals and officers also came to power, hence the push back against OFB. And now, OFB is being taken to task. First phase: Corporatisation. Second phase: Belt tightening (losing flab). Third phase: Disinvestment.

The first step was to create alternate suppliers, the process began in 2016 and is still ongoing. The results have been very good.

The second step was to reduce the army's flab, like the restructuring of the workshops.

The third step is to cut off the DDP's influence on the DGQA and bring corruption down to zero, if possible. The DDP within the MoD is a sh!thole of corruption and is now being restructured, along with the DGQA. Also, the DGQA is being moved under the army so that the DDP cannot put pressure on the DGQA to clear substandard weapons and ammo. Currently, the DGQA runs in parallel to the army, is headed by a Lt General and absorbs Lt Cols who could not become Cols in the army, but are awarded the Col rank upon moving to the DGQA (not sure how well that's been working out though). So the DDP, headed by civilians, and the DGQA, run by the army in the near future, will be significantly less integrated thereby reducing the hold the civilian bureaucracy had over the military bureaucracy. Most likely following the Shekatkar Committee's recommendations.

The fourth step is to corporatise OFB with a perform or perish ultimatum.

In the meantime, the govt will continue to give the OFB some ongoing projects (Dhanush, T-90 etc) and new projects (AK-203) in order to prevent worker strikes getting in the way of the army's supplies and also creating election hurdles, while also diversifying suppliers in areas where OFB has been delayed or completely failed, like the Pinaka rockets and artillery guns.

Restructuring the DGQA and corporatisation of OFB signals the start of the war on corruption within the MIC.

@Falcon @vstol Jockey
What's your opinion on all this?

Last step will be restructuring of MOD.

 

[Ashwin]

 

[Ankit Kumar]

What is the maximum under slung weight they can lift?

Cause read somewhere that M198 howitzers of USMC were often transported that way on Chinook. Maybe our upgunned M46 can be airlifted too.

 

[Milspec]

What is the maximum under slung weight they can lift?

Cause read somewhere that M198 howitzers of USMC were often transported that way on Chinook. Maybe our upgunned M46 can be airlifted too.

Helicoptor rides are for videsi, for desi/semi-desi it's maal gaadi.
Jokes apart, for underslng weight for rotary aircrafts, the destination altitude would be key factor. For plains of Punjab, Rajasthan Gujarat, loading couple of tons short of MTOW, would be cool, but on the eastern side there is significant derate for the operational altitude.
Also another aspect to consider is underslung loads exert variable force due to wind interactions.

So 26000 lbs single , 17000 aft, 25000lbs tandem, but 16000lbs hot and high. Don't know how high though.

CH-47 CHINOOK HELICOPTER

Supports a full spectrum of operations including disaster relief, homeland defense and security, and current overseas contingency operations with a Future Force system design. The CH-47F is the Army's only heavy-lift cargo helicopter supporting criti...

www.army.mil

 

[randomradio]

What is the maximum under slung weight they can lift?

Cause read somewhere that M198 howitzers of USMC were often transported that way on Chinook. Maybe our upgunned M46 can be airlifted too.

That should be fine for plains. But in the mountains, the M777 may be the limit of the Chinook.

 

[Ankit Kumar]

The D30 continues to play a important role along LoC whenever heavier fire power is required. Both BSF and IA use this system. Though now being withdrawn from units deployed along plains, its still used in the mountains for its capabilities to do high angle fire. The OFB has it seems stopped producing the 122mm ammo used from these D30 guns and 122mm SPHs. Both will be replaced soon.

 

[_Anonymous_]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1328074198326112258

https://twitter.com/x/status/1328226556867616769

https://twitter.com/x/status/1328240133770907648

 

[raghu1974]

India should order more Vajra K-9's (another 2 regiments) and L&T / DRDO should start working on the Light Tank based on K9. They both should now work on Next Generation MBT and manufacturing should be shared between Avadi factory and L&T. 500 ATAGS + 250 Dhanush should also be ordered with a 3-4 year timeline. Kalyani's ULH should be ordered instead of M-777 imports.

 

[Ankit Kumar]

India should order more Vajra K-9's

The contract for 100 vehicles had a follow on clause for 50 more vehicles. Will be likely exercised. Further more a decade back RFI was present for 180 wheeled Platform SPHs, it's likely that those numbers can be clubbed into a single type tracked SPHs, resulting in more K9 orders down the line.

L&T / DRDO should start working on the Light Tank based on K9

Hull unsuitable for light tank design. Protection levels low. Just to convert it into a IFV platform will require addition of lots of RHA in the frontal arc.

Second reason being any viable light tank will actually be more than 35-40 tons heavy , therefore nullyfying any advantages. Better to use lighter T90S with uprated engines, better side coverage with ERA and a new gun.

Next Generation MBT

Speed of R&D is directly proportional to the funds and resources allocated.

500 ATAGS + 250 Dhanush should also be ordered with a 3-4 year timeline.

114 155/45 calibre Dhanush and 300 155/45 M46 are on order. Along with 145 M777 guns.

A further 300 155/52 calibre Dhanush will likely be ordered. ATAGs will take time completing it's development.

 

[Lolwa]

India should order more Vajra K-9's (another 2 regiments) and L&T / DRDO should start working on the Light Tank based on K9. They both should now work on Next Generation MBT and manufacturing should be shared between Avadi factory and L&T. 500 ATAGS + 250 Dhanush should also be ordered with a 3-4 year timeline. Kalyani's ULH should be ordered instead of M-777 imports.

We need a fleet of atleast 300-400 k9. M109 fits our equirement much better than the k9 because of its weight..

 

[Hydra]

India should order more Vajra K-9's (another 2 regiments) and L&T / DRDO should start working on the Light Tank based on K9. They both should now work on Next Generation MBT and manufacturing should be shared between Avadi factory and L&T. 500 ATAGS + 250 Dhanush should also be ordered with a 3-4 year timeline. Kalyani's ULH should be ordered instead of M-777 imports.

Along with more K9s we should order Bharat Forge's 105mm truck mounted ULH too,a perfect solution for Ladakh. The gun system weighs only 900 kg,for comparison our ofb 105 mm Indian Feild Gun weighs 3500 kg.

 

[raghu1974]

Along with more K9s we should order Bharat Forge's 105mm truck mounted ULH too,a perfect solution for Ladakh. The gun system weighs only 900 kg,for comparison our ofb 105 mm Indian Feild Gun weighs 3500 kg.

I agree with all the feedback from the various members. For the nascent defense industry to sustain itself for the next 5-10 years, Indian Armed forces have to create a roadmap for each of its weapon systems, so that the private industry and public sector companies in this space can plan accordingly. Define and distribute the number of each type of Artillery weapons that can be procured in a multi year (5-7 years) procurement strategy. We can achieve 2 things here. We can buy only those numbers that we have budgeted for and also provide feedback for the product to mature further or improve its capability over a period of time. These piece meal orders for Indigenous systems is literally a slap on the face for these companies who have invested heavily. The same goes with the endless loop in trials and user validations. As long as the Armed forces don't provide a level playing field to both Indian and Foreign defense manufacturers, the local manufacturers will either not venture into this domain or quickly exit. As much as the current government has changed the procurement norms, it should also ensure the testing / acceptance norms are the same for everyone of the manufacturers.