Indian Hypersonic Propulsion Developments

Going by what Dr Saraswat has to say we've mastered TBCs to withstand 1800°C or more. Theoretically it is possible we can develop not just the KED but also the 120 KN TF for the AMCA Mk-2 in house then .

What're your views ?
Making TBCs that can survive 1800 deg C is only part of the problem. There are other challenges like how low the thermal conductivity is, how resistant is the TBC to ablation etc.

Missiles offer more freedom on the materials side, after all they are meant to be used once. The layer thickness of TBC can be significantly higher in case of scramjet combustors than on TF engine blades & vanes.

Scramjets are also relatively simpler in geometry, so easier to fabricate. The only real challenge in scramjet engines are the fuel injector struts. Those are a pain to design, fabricate, validate.

Been reading about GTRE & NAL's forays into SiC-SiC CMC material development recently. Some papers cite stress testing at ~1420 deg C. From what I understand they now have a reliable way of producing SiC-SiC CMCs that can withstand ~1420 deg C. We can get an additional 240 deg C advantage with active cooling & our current generation YSCZ-LZ TBC on the CMC. Overall, we can get sustained 1900+ K with this.

Of course there are problems. There is little to no domestic manufacturing capacity of SiC fibers. We buy them from Japan. Attempt at lab scale production of high quality SiC fibers have been unsuccessful so far. They have found a way to stabilize the CMC matrix, but not yet a way to shape them. Making SiC-SiC CMC of the correct geometry is still some time away. Machining coolant holes on the CMC has proven notoriously difficult. As with any ceramic material, SiC-SiC CMCs are incredibly tough but also brittle. We don't have the machines needed to drill the right sized holes.

I think material wise we will reach 5th gen levels way before we have a 5th gen TF engine design.
 
Going by what Dr Saraswat has to say we've mastered TBCs to withstand 1800°C or more. Theoretically it is possible we can develop not just the KED but also the 120 KN TF for the AMCA Mk-2 in house then .

What're your views ?
1800*C is too much and good enough for all practical purposes. It seems that now only challenge now remained is wright reduction and fine-tuning of design. We should go in mission mode to integrate these technologies with preparation of setbacks. Do not keep delaying the products in fear of failing and relying too much on theoretical part so as to get it right in first go. This reduces the cost but adds to timing. As IAF chief said, technology delayed is technology denied. We need to spend more on R & D.
 
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Boosters are jettisoned from the actual missile once the missile obtains the desired Mach speed, so when the HSTDV flies, it will be without the booster part. Ground launchers have no issues of weight and size. We can fire any size of booster to get the range. Yes, for ship or airborne, we need to check the limitation.

But longer booster phase, more the chance of mid-course interception.
 
GTRE should initiate a study on a hybrid engine, a turbofan with a scramjet. This should be worthy of a 6th generation fighter engine. Instead, an afterburner uses a scramjet. Or better to give it to an institution or startup to start the initial study with a small fund.

Can Turbojet provide the velocity to start Scramjet propulsion? Incase speed increases, will the airframe be strong enough to sustain the high speed generated due to Scramjet power?
 
Making TBCs that can survive 1800 deg C is only part of the problem. There are other challenges like how low the thermal conductivity is, how resistant is the TBC to ablation etc.

Missiles offer more freedom on the materials side, after all they are meant to be used once. The layer thickness of TBC can be significantly higher in case of scramjet combustors than on TF engine blades & vanes.

Scramjets are also relatively simpler in geometry, so easier to fabricate. The only real challenge in scramjet engines are the fuel injector struts. Those are a pain to design, fabricate, validate.

Been reading about GTRE & NAL's forays into SiC-SiC CMC material development recently. Some papers cite stress testing at ~1420 deg C. From what I understand they now have a reliable way of producing SiC-SiC CMCs that can withstand ~1420 deg C. We can get an additional 240 deg C advantage with active cooling & our current generation YSCZ-LZ TBC on the CMC. Overall, we can get sustained 1900+ K with this.

Of course there are problems. There is little to no domestic manufacturing capacity of SiC fibers. We buy them from Japan. Attempt at lab scale production of high quality SiC fibers have been unsuccessful so far. They have found a way to stabilize the CMC matrix, but not yet a way to shape them. Making SiC-SiC CMC of the correct geometry is still some time away. Machining coolant holes on the CMC has proven notoriously difficult. As with any ceramic material, SiC-SiC CMCs are incredibly tough but also brittle. We don't have the machines needed to drill the right sized holes.

I think material wise we will reach 5th gen levels way before we have a 5th gen TF engine design.
Thanks for the answer. How much of the technologies you've described are we getting vide mfg the F-414 locally thru GE ?
 
Can Turbojet provide the velocity to start Scramjet propulsion? Incase speed increases, will the airframe be strong enough to sustain the high speed generated due to Scramjet power?
Can be done. But that turbojet has to be a turbo-ramjet. ISRO has a project where they are exploring a 2 stage to orbit fully re-usable vehicle with a similar concept.
1737997105343.png
ISRO is directly contributing to military technologies here. Imagine a fighter sized aircraft with this propulsion package (without the rocket engines) & active radar cancellation tech. It would be a true air-dominance fighter.

It goes without saying that we are decades away from something like this.
How much of the technologies you've described are we getting vide mfg the F-414 locally thru GE ?
None. All of these have to be done in house by DRDO.
 
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Can Turbojet provide the velocity to start Scramjet propulsion? Incase speed increases, will the airframe be strong enough to sustain the high speed generated due to Scramjet power?
This is a concept for someone to study whether it is possible or not. if it is, it will undoubtedly a game changer. Since the current fighter jet airframe design cannot sustain the speed, it must be something specially designed mach 5 and above, perhaps like Top Gun Maverick's SR-72 Darkstar. To increase the speed, we might use the gravity like a missile. just a thought ...

1738079541773.png
 
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DRDO's HSTDV scramjet engine is optimized for intake speed of Mach 6 & will produce a nominal thrust of 5.78 kN. 120 seconds at Mach 6 will get you ~250 km in range. For a ground/naval system we will have a solid booster 1st stage that will give us a range of ~100 km. So overall, we can have around 350 km range.

DRDO eventually plans to have 250 sec of scramjet ignition which gives us a total range of ~515 + 100 = ~615 km.
ISRO's HAVA scramjet engine is significantly more powerful than the HSTDV:
1739979933806.png
 
That pic is the same one as the DDR posted picture in page 1 of this thread, except for taken at different angle , was in one Dr Satheesh Reddy talk video.
 
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