wondering why 200-300 crore extra when the cost is just 12 crore per torpedo? i thought they ordered 100 torpedoes which was the initial requirement of Navy during 2015-16.
India scraps Israel anti-tank missile deal after DRDO says will deliver
Written by Amitav Ranjan | New Delhi | Updated: June 24, 2019 6:41:52 am
Government officials associated with the approval of the deal said Israel has been informed about the contract being abandoned in favour of DRDO, which claimed that it was developing a similar missile at a lower price in partnership with VEM Technologies Ltd.
Image : Totally a NAG missile.
India has scrapped a $500-million deal with Israel for the purchase of Spike anti-tank missiles from defence contractor Rafael Advanced Defense Systems after indigenous developer Defence Research & Development Organisation (DRDO) claimed that it could deliver an alternative within two years.
rolleyes:We've heard this so many times, it's not even funny anymore.)
Government officials associated with the approval of the deal said Israel has been informed about the contract being abandoned in favour of DRDO, which claimed that it was developing a similar missile at a lower price in partnership with VEM Technologies Ltd.
Officials said domestic production of the missile was favoured as DRDO’s effort in creating a man-portable anti-tank guided missile (MPATGM) was “progressing fast” with the second stage of testing concluded. The DRDO claimed it successfully test-fired the MPATGM at the Ahmednagar range last September.
Although Army officials were sceptical of DRDO’s claim on meeting its promised deadline and operational requirements, the Defence Ministry opted for DRDO as it would fulfill the government’s “Make-in-India” initiative. The ministry, said officials, now prefers a home-grown anti-tank missile rather than depend on time-consuming imports.
Officials said India last year delayed the purchase of Spike missiles from Rafael for fear of being dragged into another controversy at a time when the purchase of the French fighter jet Rafale was being disputed by the main Opposition Congress party ahead of the 2019 Lok Sabha elections.
At the time, the reason given was that the Spike missiles needed to undergo additional tests to prove its infrared system in the country’s high-temperature environment. The Army was said to be sceptical of the missile’s performance in the hot western deserts adjoining Pakistan.
However, the DRDO offered to deliver thousands of indigenous MPATGM by 2021, almost the time it would take Rafael to deliver its Strike missiles, said officials.
India’s deal with Israel for 321 Spike launchers and 8,356 missiles was initially struck in October 2014 after the Defence Ministry selected Spike over the US-made FGM-148 Javelin. But it was scrapped in December 2017 in favour of DRDO.
It was “reauthorized” in January 2018 following Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s visit to India and Rafael opened a production facility in India last August with local partner Kalyani Group.
India scraps Israel anti-tank missile deal after DRDO says will deliver
Written by Amitav Ranjan | New Delhi | Updated: June 24, 2019 6:41:52 am
Government officials associated with the approval of the deal said Israel has been informed about the contract being abandoned in favour of DRDO, which claimed that it was developing a similar missile at a lower price in partnership with VEM Technologies Ltd.
Image : Totally a NAG missile.
India has scrapped a $500-million deal with Israel for the purchase of Spike anti-tank missiles from defence contractor Rafael Advanced Defense Systems after indigenous developer Defence Research & Development Organisation (DRDO) claimed that it could deliver an alternative within two years.
rolleyes:We've heard this so many times, it's not even funny anymore.)Government officials associated with the approval of the deal said Israel has been informed about the contract being abandoned in favour of DRDO, which claimed that it was developing a similar missile at a lower price in partnership with VEM Technologies Ltd.
Officials said domestic production of the missile was favoured as DRDO’s effort in creating a man-portable anti-tank guided missile (MPATGM) was “progressing fast” with the second stage of testing concluded. The DRDO claimed it successfully test-fired the MPATGM at the Ahmednagar range last September.
Although Army officials were sceptical of DRDO’s claim on meeting its promised deadline and operational requirements, the Defence Ministry opted for DRDO as it would fulfill the government’s “Make-in-India” initiative. The ministry, said officials, now prefers a home-grown anti-tank missile rather than depend on time-consuming imports.
Officials said India last year delayed the purchase of Spike missiles from Rafael for fear of being dragged into another controversy at a time when the purchase of the French fighter jet Rafale was being disputed by the main Opposition Congress party ahead of the 2019 Lok Sabha elections.
At the time, the reason given was that the Spike missiles needed to undergo additional tests to prove its infrared system in the country’s high-temperature environment. The Army was said to be sceptical of the missile’s performance in the hot western deserts adjoining Pakistan.
However, the DRDO offered to deliver thousands of indigenous MPATGM by 2021, almost the time it would take Rafael to deliver its Strike missiles, said officials.
India’s deal with Israel for 321 Spike launchers and 8,356 missiles was initially struck in October 2014 after the Defence Ministry selected Spike over the US-made FGM-148 Javelin. But it was scrapped in December 2017 in favour of DRDO.
It was “reauthorized” in January 2018 following Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s visit to India and Rafael opened a production facility in India last August with local partner Kalyani Group.
India scraps Israel anti-tank missile deal after DRDO says will deliver
Guys remember this ?
The Canon Launched Guided Missile(CLGM) was meant to replace the Israeli LAHAT missile used in the Arjun tanks. The LAHAT had a serious problem, it used to produce a lot of smoke inside the tank when fired. This caused breathing hazard for the crew and could be fixed by providing the crew with gas masks and or installing a gas extractor inside the tank. Neither of those solutions were considered optimal and the LAHAT was rejected. DRDO proposed a CLGM to replace it. It was first tested in 2013, I think. The design and specs have changed slightly over the years.
VEM Technologies were involved with the project. It was in Defexpo 2014 when this model of the CLGM was unveiled(below). Then there were more tests in 2015, 2016 and by mid 2017 everything went silent. What happened to it ? As far as I can tell the tests were all successful, so what's the deal ?
Also in Aero India 2017, Shiv Aroor of Livefist put up this pic below but didn't identify it. Its from VEM Tech again. Anybody know what this is ?
The Canon Launched Guided Missile(CLGM) was meant to replace the Israeli LAHAT missile used in the Arjun tanks. The LAHAT had a serious problem, it used to produce a lot of smoke inside the tank when fired. This caused breathing hazard for the crew and could be fixed by providing the crew with gas masks and or installing a gas extractor inside the tank. Neither of those solutions were considered optimal and the LAHAT was rejected. DRDO proposed a CLGM to replace it. It was first tested in 2013, I think. The design and specs have changed slightly over the years.
VEM Technologies were involved with the project. It was in Defexpo 2014 when this model of the CLGM was unveiled(below). Then there were more tests in 2015, 2016 and by mid 2017 everything went silent. What happened to it ? As far as I can tell the tests were all successful, so what's the deal ?
Also in Aero India 2017, Shiv Aroor of Livefist put up this pic below but didn't identify it. Its from VEM Tech again. Anybody know what this is ?
Re-validation trials. Not firsts of its kind pending trials.these kind of tests were still pending
When i previously posted the above as possibly Akash NG , some claimed it was Astra mk2. Fair enough.
Now then what is this missile ?
Note : this was a aerodynamic modelling assignment of a BVRAAM from drdo to a private company.
Since it was clearly identified as a BVRAAM so highest possibility that it is Astra mk2.
This CFD was done by Zeus Numerix for DRDO. I've posted about this long back. It was mentioned by Zeus to be a CFD of BVRAAM long before the wind tunnel model from NAL came out. Reference post #343 and #400 on this thread.
Aerodynamic Analysis of Air-to-Air BVR Missile - Zeus
In all due possibility, the CFD model is likely to be the Astra Mk2 and the wind tunnel model model is Akash NG.
DRDO is known to use similar airframes for multiple missiles. For example the airframes of Astra Mk1 and NGARM are very much alike.
I believe the picture first appeared in df.i drdo thread around 2 years ago , where the guy p_k who posted it claimed it was Astra mk2.
I kind of remembered it and so posted it.
I must have missed it. I found it around a few months back.
2 years ago you say. That's a long time. Enough time to complete CFD tests and at least get the carriage tests done. As far as i can tell, the Astra Mk2 will use a dual pulse propulsion system. We have plenty of experience there. So why the delay I wonder.
Propulsion is just one of the components , DRDO is looking to include 2 way data links , cooperative engagement capabilities etc and tech like that is very difficult to develop.
They are using Barak 8 experience , but the Israelis are playing hard ball with some of the critical technologies which they are refusing to share as it is.
As I said before, most of the technologies needed has already been tested on NGARM. And I don't think two way data link is one. Can you give a source?
Astra mk2 got nothing to do with NGARM perse
Astra mk2 is more closely related to LRSAM/MRSAM in terms of tech being ported.
Above the missile 2 way data link sub system I alluded to from DRDO , in LRSAM/MRSAM the Israelis worked on it and it's related support systems like the conformal antennas etc. In Astra MK2 DRDO is slogging it out alone based on whatever info / exp they managed to gather .
Also if interested tie this with the select frequency band of the conformal antennas DRDO has worked on last 2 years or so.
Sorry no links , I don't feel like waddling through Google to prove what I say.
Nobody asks for proof from presstitudes lol , khabi unse bhi puchiye sir.
Anyways nothing to prove , as I say readers discretion
It has a lot. I'm suspecting the even the airframe would be similar.
Not correct. Astra Mk2 is closer to reality than you think. All the main components are already tested and validated on mk1 and NGARM.
Major upgrades like laser proximity fuze (LPF) and dual-pulse solid rocket motor are part of the NGARM which was tested earlier this year.
Nothing to port from Barak 8, the motor is fully indian. They redesigned it for the air-launched role.
Sir broaden your horizons
You seem to be stuck with the propulsion , propulsion is not the end all , it's the beginning lol.
What about the actuators , what about the data links , what about flight control , what about the navigation , what about the guidance , what about the structural engineering , what about material engineering , what about the antennas , what about the busload of algorithms etc etc etc etc
Everybody knows Barak 8 motor is Indian and it is being utilised for different programs like NGARM ASTRA MK2, so ?
If everything is so easy once you have the propulsion then why DRDO needed the Israelis for LRSAM ( BARAK 8 ) since they already had the propulsion indigenously made ? Why is parliament reports complaining of lack of ToTs from the Israelis wrt Barak 8 ?
I hope you realise your untenable logic.
No offence I am done with this discussion and you are free to believe what you want
Why so jumpy? Why are you getting defensive?
The real reason for Astra mk-II delay could be related to project priorities, not technological challenges.
They are yet to wrap up Astra Mk-I development.
NGARM comes under 12th FYP and it has been given two more year extension. The project is in the testing phase.
NGARM, QRSAM, SAAW, MPATGM all comes under 12th FYP
Astra Mk-II is listed under new projects being formulated for DRDO 13th FYP. (Basically, the project is barely 2 years old). It might take a few more years to see start testing.
Thank you for pushing me to look into it.
@Falcon @randomradio @Parthu @GuardianRED
I did not say that. I mentioned propulsion because of your comment on LRSAM/MRSAM. You were talking with a @Gautam .
I didn't present you any new logic. I never said its so easy to build a long range BVR. All I said was that we already have all the building pieces to make it a reality.
The real reason for Astra mk-II delay could be related to project priorities, not technological challenges.
They are yet to wrap up Astra Mk-I development.
NGARM comes under 12th FYP and it has been given two more year extension. The project is in the testing phase.
NGARM, QRSAM, SAAW, MPATGM all comes under 12th FYP
Astra Mk-II is listed under new projects being formulated for DRDO 13th FYP. (Basically, the project is barely 2 years old). It might take a few more years to see start testing.
Thank you for pushing me to look into it.
@Falcon @randomradio @Parthu @GuardianRED
And you made fun of me when I told you that Astra seeker is Russian in origin and that initial batch has Russian seeker. Do you know, even Chinese PL-15 has same seeker.
I stand corrected, Astra, QRSAM seekers are fully Indian. I didn't make fun of you but asked for a source for the statement. Which you couldn't produce. And how does what I posted proved that it is of russian origin?