Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

_Anonymous_ said:
So you mean to say we'd develop the ASuM before we develop the entire network / eco system for such a weapon. What good is that, I ask? There's definitely something more to this.
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Hehe. What I'm actually trying to say is, if the 600+ Km range is true, then we probably have already started developing all the necessary infrastructure to make it work.

Otherwise, 600Km is entirely useless against submarines. (May work against ships, but it presents the same problems concerning infrastructure, albeit less complex).

Anyway, this might be the first step.
India-France to jointly build, run space-based ship tracking system

It's funny. I once had a long discussion about AIS and its future implications on PDF with gambit and jhungary. They didn't believe such a system was possible. Jhungary has some high level clearance and tried to convince me that such a system doesn't exist in the US (and cannot exist). Which is true, since we are the ones building it first. ;)
 
randomradio said:
Hehe. What I'm actually trying to say is, if the 600+ Km range is true, then we probably have already started developing all the necessary infrastructure to make it work.

Otherwise, 600Km is entirely useless against submarines. (May work against ships, but it presents the same problems concerning infrastructure, albeit less complex).

Anyway, this might be the first step.
India-France to jointly build, run space-based ship tracking system

It's funny. I once had a long discussion about AIS and its future implications on PDF with gambit and jhungary. They didn't believe such a system was possible. Jhungary has some high level clearance and tried to convince me that such a system doesn't exist in the US (and cannot exist). Which is true, since we are the ones building it first. ;)
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The most important part is detecting the Submarine

For Submarines , the Range would be less

This 600 km thing is for Ships

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@randomradio

The Hypersonic Glide Vehicles also are released from a ICBM

Hope you read about Russian AVANGARD

If this is successful , we can try for HGV
 
randomradio said:
Hehe. What I'm actually trying to say is, if the 600+ Km range is true, then we probably have already started developing all the necessary infrastructure to make it work.

Otherwise, 600Km is entirely useless against submarines. (May work against ships, but it presents the same problems concerning infrastructure, albeit less complex).

Anyway, this might be the first step.
India-France to jointly build, run space-based ship tracking system

It's funny. I once had a long discussion about AIS and its future implications on PDF with gambit and jhungary. They didn't believe such a system was possible. Jhungary has some high level clearance and tried to convince me that such a system doesn't exist in the US (and cannot exist). Which is true, since we are the ones building it first. ;)
Click to expand...
We are the ones developing first??!!?And the US, China & Russia have no clue about such a system leave aside developing it. And we're supposed to believe it! It's going to be 2020 soon. When will you grow up?
 
STEPHEN COHEN said:
The most important part is detecting the Submarine

For Submarines , the Range would be less

This 600 km thing is for Ships
Click to expand...

If subs can be targeted at that range, so can ships.

@randomradio

The Hypersonic Glide Vehicles also are released from a ICBM

Hope you read about Russian AVANGARD

If this is successful , we can try for HGV
Click to expand...

I suppose that is a future goal.
 
Eh? :confused:

Isnt it obvious IN is progressively moving towards a extensive network centric capabilities in its areas of responsibility. And this capability build up , current and future, is what which has led to the confidence to develop a long range weapon system like SMART which can exploit the same.


Also isnt it obvious the range of a weapon and associated sensor is calibrated to the range at which it's target enters into its zone of vulnerability / detection , ie torpedo launch after positive identification ( mostly visual) of its target by a submarine after passive sonar contact at long range. When a torpedo exits it's tube its gets picked up by ships sonar inevitably. Since a submarine needs to be close to its target , inorder to guide its torpedo through wire or optical channel untill onboard target handover / acquisition , the ships ASW weapons , FCS , sensors will be optimised to operate at an approx distance which allows any submarine to identify positively and carry out its is attack on the ship with high probability of kill.


A destroyer 300 km away and a helicopter 100 above sea level won't be able to see each other ?
What for ?
What's the need to see each other ? Are they love sick ?

They need to communicate , not see each other and for that SATCOMs are available on both platforms and a dedicated navy satellite is already operational to allow it.

Why the heck does one need MALE HALE UAVs MPAs to facilitate communication between the ship and the helicopter ?

What is it a circus ?

As long as your communication satellite is working fine and the onboard SATCOM equipments on both the ship and helicopter is working fine and the channels are not being interfered with , NLOS communication between ship and helicopter will be through SATCOM as far as possible.

Only if the satellite goes down or the uplinks or downlinks get jammed or the onboard SATCOM equipments fail will other assets like UAVs / MPAs will come into play as relay stations via VHF links etc.

AFAIK Laser satellites with LIDAR are not capable of large volume searches and are effective in shallow waters only , though reasearch is going on .

As for how IN detects submarines , i once posted pic of one of tech though i did not identify it's purpose deliberately and i know of 2 other tech which is yet to be made officially known.

One of them is hilarious basically a classic example of juggad.
 
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Again at the risk of hostility i will again say

Eh ? :confused:

You guys are confusing between offensive and defensive ASW

What you guys have been running around with till now is defensive ASW , range limitation is concurrent for both ship and submarine wrt torpedo / FCS / sensors supporting the same

Ships are targets of opportunity for submarines and most of the time any ASW weapons they deploy is on being attacked or on detecting the submarine preparing to attack or encountering them while they wait in ambush . Submarine is the stalker and hunter.

While in offensive ASW airborne platforms are utilised be it helicopters or fixed wings to stalk and hunt down submarines. Here submarines becomes the target of opportunity for airborne ASW assets. Here submarine gets hunted and is the prey.

As for STAR it's long range is primarily to take advantage of ASW assets like

1. Future UAVs with SAR radar / EO payloads optimised for detecting and identifying undersea targets

2. Future stratospheric airships with SAR radar / EO payloads optimised for detecting and identifying undersea targets

3. Future satellites with relevant payloads for detecting and identifying undersea targets

4. Future autonomous UUVs like gliders which can move about a distant target area for months in swarms ( work is going on this , lab prototype done ) detecting and identifying undersea targets

5. Undersea sensors both standalone and networked for detecting and identifying underseas targets.

6. Airborne assets like MPA but without organic ASW weapons capabilities like those of coastguard

7. Last both not the least the unknown Jugaad underwater sensors



And it goes without saying all 7 will relay back data for further action
 
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Ashwin said:
Various munitions under development or trials by DRDO

1. Nipun - Soft target blast munition (development completed, offered for user trials)

2. Vibhav - Anti-tank point attack munition (lethality trials and desert trial completed)

3. Vishal - Anti-tank bar munition (dynamic trials with BMP/AFV, explosive train trials and desert trials completed)

4. Ulka - Jumping fragmentation munition (moulding trials ongoing)

5. Parth - Directional fragmentation module (demo trials completed, field trial ongoing)

6. ABG - 40mm low velocity Air Burst Grenade which can be fired from UBGL (flight tested in 2015, ABG fuze evaluated in dynamic trial with flash pallet in time mode)
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New Family of Munitions NFM Defence Research and Development Organisation - DRDO GoI.png
 
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I wrote this in d.fi, reposting it here........

Let me give a description of Kfour based on what i know

1. 1st stage

Solid fuel , flex nozzle

2. Interstage 1/2

3. 2nd stage

Solid fuel , flex nozzle

4. Interstage 2/3

a. Contains a pair of vents for gas generators to create a bubble for transition through water.

b. Contains 2 pairs of heavy thrusters arranged parallel to each other and equidistant from the centre. They fire moments before the missile breaks the water surface to propel the missile into the air and the missile is lifted to a safe predetermined height from the water surface.

5. Nose fairing ( contains the 3rd stage which is part of payload bus ).

*****************

Sequence of events associated with Kfour launch

1. Gas generator fires

2. The obturator pushes the missile out of the silo

3. As soon as nose is clear of silo , the gas generator in the interstage 2/3 fires through the 2 gas vents to create a bubble around the missile surface as the missile is being pushed upwards by the obturator.

4. As the nose breaks the water surface ,the 2 pairs of heavy thrusters in the interstage 2/3 fires to lift the missile clear of the water into the atmosphere . It travels to a predetermined height.

Note : I am of the opinion that the 2 pair of heavy thrusters in 2/3 interstage are not used till burnout . Those thrusters keep enough fuel as reserve to use during later maneuvers as per requirements eg highly depressed trajectory etc.

5. Then the 1st stage fires to carry the missile to the desired altitude

6. After burnout of 1st stage , it gets seperated along with the interstage 1/2 .

7. Then the 2nd stage fires to carry the payload further.

8. After burnout of 2nd stage , it is discarded along with the interstage 2/3.

9. Then the 3rd stage fires, nose fairing discarded just before that , the 3rd stage comprises of reaction control system (RCS) and velocity trimming module (VTM) , it is part of the payload bus . All events associated with 3rd stage happens in space.

10.The payload bus maneuvers in space to allow for accurate positioning of payload bus for accurate dispersion of RV(s).

11.The RV(s) are released.

Note : Kfour uses fins as control surfaces , since it is not known where exactly , i am inclined to believe they are used in the RV(s).


As usual readers discretion is advised .
 
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India plans 5,000-km range submarine-launched ballistic missile

The 5,000km-range submarine-launched ballistic missile will carry the same K-series label and will cover all of Asia, parts of Africa, Europe and Indo-Pacific including South China Sea.

Updated: Jan 26, 2020 07:54 IST
Shishir Gupta
Hindustan Times, New Delhi
syria-russia_b94cee8e-3fe2-11ea-bfbd-f812f33ac46f.jpg
The DRDO focus is now on a 5,000km-range ballistic missile to join the elite club of US, Russia and Chinese nuclear submarines.(AP File Photo/Representative Image )

With the K-4 submarine-launched ballistic missile completing the development stage and ready for induction, the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) has gone back to the drawing board to develop a 5,000km-range submarine-launched platform that matches the surface-to-surface Agni-V missile, according to senior officials.

The 5,000km-range submarine-launched ballistic missile will carry the same K-series label and will cover all of Asia, parts of Africa, Europe and Indo-Pacific including South China Sea, the officials added.

While the details remain classified and the DRDO tight-lipped, the officials said that after testing the 3,500km-range K-4 missile twice in one week, the weapon is now fully developed with fixed parameters and is ready to be inducted on INS Arihant class of nuclear submarines. The solid fuelled K-4 is a three-metre tall missile with accuracy within 100 metres of its over one tonne nuclear warhead. Both the tests were conducted using underwater pontoon off the coast of Vizag on India’s eastern seaboard. At present, INS Arihant carries B-05 nuclear missile with a range of 750km, with the K-15 nomenclature being made redundant.

However, the DRDO focus is now on a 5,000km-range ballistic missile to join the elite club of US, Russia and Chinese nuclear submarines. According to officials, this missile will match Agni-V in range with a potent destruction capacity. India currently has no plans to develop any other longer-range missile as the 5,000km range will act as a deterrent to all its adversaries in Asia and beyond. “While we have the capacity to build a longer range nuclear missile of intercontinental range, the final decision lies with the government. And no such sanction has been either sought or approved,” said a senior official.

India plans 5,000-km range submarine-launched ballistic missile

K-5 incoming ?
 
Ashwin said:
Any idea about different roles of each?
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Three types

RudraM-II

RudraM-IIA

RudraM-III

AFAIK the primary difference between the first 2 is in the type of seekers being employed.

Also RudraM-IIA will come with a smart warhead , RudraM-II uses a PCB warhead.

RudraM-II and RudraM-IIA both weight 700 kg and is a high supersonic air to surface missile at 3-4 Mach.

RudraM-III is a heavier air to surface version of the above 2 and weighs a whopping 1.6 tons, more than double the weight of earlier 2 versions. I suspect it is a hypersonic missile much like Russian krinzel.

klkjj.jpg


RudraM-II model undergoing wind tunnel testing

AddTex.jpg


RudraM-III line drawing from a tender document


As far as role goes it is a stand off weapon for time critical missions.
It will be employed for variety of missions like DEAD/SEAD , destruction of hardened bunkers both overground and underground , TELs , command posts both fixed and mobile etc.

RudraM-III will have the option of a multistage deep penetration warhead with smart sensor ( i posted the pic of the warhead earlier including high speed sled test pics)

Move this post to drdo munitions thread
 
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Ashwin said:
saaw-poster-2-jpg.13830


sfdr-poster-jpg.13831


nasm-sr-poster-jpg.13820


So there is no under development ship launched / coastal defence Ashm ? :cautious:
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There is a longer range AShM NASM-MR under development

To be fair i was surprised by the small range of NASM-SR , i was expecting 120km lol

Now i dont want to hazard a guess on the possible range of NASM-MR lol

Also am surprised at the figure of > 120 km range of SFDR
Is it against receding target ( tail chase ) because throttable thrust of ducted solid Ramjet USP is all about phenomenal range atleast 250 km in head on mode at optimal altitude
 
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