Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

[_Anonymous_]

So you are calling fanboy YouTubers "news industry" now?

Those "fanboys" also include a good number of B R F & D F I guys whom everybody including you freely quote here vide Tweets .

The point is, whomever published this report is based on the original source of MoD press release. In that there is no need for speculations or opinions because it's clear about what it intends to communicate.

Which is why I used the term YT defence channel busybodies reported that the Rudras were being equipped & the Prachandas would follow , to be more precise , with what I should've communicated earlier .

Btw nice dodge there with the 2 Guptas. You deserve an award there much more for that dodge than for the PIBs you may or may not have linked here.

 

[Ashwin]

Which is why I used the term YT defence channel busybodies reported that the Rudras were being equipped & the Prachandas would follow , to be more precise , with what I should've communicated earlier .

This is why I have corrected you that they don't "report" anything but make up stuff or speculate to get more clicks and views. In this particular case, there is no need for any of these because we have original source which is PIB.

Hope we are clear on that.

Yes, I did ignore your straw man and ad hominem. Don't have time for it now.

 

[_Anonymous_]

Well for what its worth the first Gupta is saying IN may give more scorpene order soon.

Seems to be the right move going by the justification offered. If Li ion batteries > AIP , instead of going in for another class of AIP based submarines , it's time we put Project -75 I in cold storage , go back to the drawing board & then revisit the proposal post 2024 , hopefully in 2025 .

In the meanwhile , expedite the desi AIP on the Kalvari during MLU , kick start building of 3 Scorpenes & hit the drawing board on the desi SSK submarines.

*Disclaimers apply as per house rules ,* since it's Shishir not Shekhar.

 

[marich01]

Well so its divided like

VSHORADS => 1920 crores (pretty huge sum, development cost or actual possible order size? )
Helina => 500 missiles (how much can it cost?)
rest is for brohmooze launcher & FCS, so possibly not the missiles are included in this count. Total aon is for ~ 4200crores nearly.

 

[Ankit Kumar]

Well so its divided like

VSHORADS => 1920 crores (pretty huge sum, development cost or actual possible order size? )
Helina => 500 missiles (how much can it cost?)
rest is for brohmooze launcher & FCS, so possibly not the missiles are included in this count. Total aon is for ~ 4200crores nearly.

The initial batch of HELINA missiles will be like 1 crore per unit. The initial batch is for 500 missiles and 40 launchers.

So maybe like 600-700 crore rupees.

Rest approx 1600 crore rupees for approx 8 vessels (2 Shivalik and 06 NGMV).

 

[Fatalis]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1613231532910731265

 

[Fatalis]

It is mentioned that SMART is designed to be fired from TEL and VLS of the warships. But, isn't it kind of chonky for this? No present VLS is able to launch it. Is there any design change going on in the backend?

 

[marich01]

Well I won't mind a new designed vls, bit like that picture with the BMD/AD system where several vertical launchers was visible on deck of a ship few months ago, think of launcher like that.

 

[marich01]

Brochure from which the missiles pic came

https://sarod2022.in/2_Brochure_SAROD2023.pdf

 

[marich01]

More

 

[marich01]

missile systems projected timeline from the astra presentation

 

[Fatalis]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1616447392638963716

I believe it is only for VL-SRSAM. IAF will most probably deploy them. It is quite similar to CAMM, VL-MICA, Iris-T-SLM.

 

[Fatalis]

According to SJha, a new SAM is under development called LRSAM which will be used by IAF and IN.

 

[marich01]

According to SJha, a new SAM is under development called LRSAM which will be used by IAF and IN.

I think Jha sir is referring to the PGLRSAM project which I posted here before, its designated to IAF & IN by seal. The three missiles I asked about before M1 M2 M3 are from tenders under this project. There is also M1B reference I have seen so not sure what their missile plan, prototype work is. One thing is sure the missile part, this uses some XRsam related configuration that was frozen & vetted before. I have obscured the technical part in below pic but you can see the topic.

 

[Fatalis]

I think Jha sir is referring to the PGLRSAM project which I posted here before, its designated to IAF & IN by seal. The three missiles I asked about before M1 M2 M3 are from tenders under this project. There is also M1B reference I have seen so not sure what their missile plan, prototype work is. One thing is sure the missile part, this uses some XRsam related configuration that was frozen & vetted before. I have obscured the technical part in below pic but you can see the topic.

View attachment 26197
View attachment 26198

He also mentioned that Programme LRSAM is XRSAM.

So many speculations and uncertainties are there:
1. XRSAM having 2 missiles as part of ERADS
2. Programme LRSAM having 3 types of missiles - M1, M2, M3
3. Programme LRSAM is AD-1
4. LRSAM is XRSAM

 

[marich01]

He also mentioned that Programme LRSAM is XRSAM.

So many speculations and uncertainties are there:
1. XRSAM having 2 missiles as part of ERADS
2. Programme LRSAM having 3 types of missiles - M1, M2, M3
3. Programme LRSAM is AD-1
4. LRSAM is XRSAM

Guess the conclusion is drawn from using some parts for xrsam case, this is common to use a specific config in variety of projects.
My guess is its range extension of the original mrsam/lrsam, to bring it to barak mx standard.
this program tenders started appearing from July as shown below, so would not be out of place that navy saw rus ship getting hit & demanded for extended range. LRSAM (IAC) was already going on since Vikrant was due presentation in August. So an extension for that could be a case, or that they had plans to extend range anyway, and recent development just made it a priority project. The volume of tenders show this, over 25 tenders placed since then which is unusually high rate.

 

[Fatalis]

My guess is its range extension of the original mrsam/lrsam, to bring it to barak mx standard.
this program tenders started appearing from July as shown below, so would not be out of place that navy saw rus ship getting hit & demanded for extended range. LRSAM (IAC) was already going on since Vikrant was due presentation in August.

I don't think Programme LRSAM is related to MRSAM. It can be something related to AD-1. Just my takes though.

With the introduction of this new SAM, IN will have all the ranges covered with: VL-SRSAM, MRSAM and the new LRSAM.

 

[marich01]

I don't think Programme LRSAM is related to MRSAM. It can be something related to AD-1. Just my takes though.

With the introduction of this new SAM, IN will have all the ranges covered with: VL-SRSAM, MRSAM and the new LRSAM.

There were very few MRSAM tenders, its just a term I guess for IAF you would call LRSAM as such. LRSAM (IAC) was a genuine project, solely for arming IAC1, open tenders came till early this year. I am not yet sure on the AD-1 program part as that one is highly strategic & high level of anonymity maintained compared to this PGLRSAM which has been rather very open & active. But yes we are all back guessing & I definitely do not have expertise to correctly predict what this prog might be related to. Maybe that dimension part which I obscured could have hinted about the parts size? it was in mm.

 

[Fatalis]

There were very few MRSAM tenders, its just a term I guess for IAF you would call LRSAM as such. LRSAM (IAC) was a genuine project, solely for arming IAC1, open tenders came till early this year. I am not yet sure on the AD-1 program part as that one is highly strategic & high level of anonymity maintained compared to this PGLRSAM which has been rather very open & active. But yes we are all back guessing & I definitely do not have expertise to correctly predict what this prog might be related to. Maybe that dimension part which I obscured could have hinted about the parts size? it was in mm.

Yeah, we all are here just doing the guess work. But, it always gets me excited to talk about these new systems which are under development.

P.S.: HSTDV was successfully test fired today.

 

[marich01]

Yeah, we all are here just doing the guess work. But, it always gets me excited to talk about these new systems which are under development.

P.S.: HSTDV was successfully test fired today.

Our current capability ToT wise ( both DRDO & the industry) seems to be in upto mach 5 range at production ready situation, given QRSAM is near orders and astra mk1 already in production, one is mach 4.7, other is mach 4.5. Both possibly have flight time <= 400sec (less for astra , ~ 240 sec perhaps) . Even pinaka rockets have mach 4+ speed apparently. This means our industry have material & tech to produce ammo that can withstand constraints of upto mach 5.

To go further, ie mach 6-8 range, which is the HSTDV test range, we will definitely need better material that can withstand demands of such operation, the previous grade materials would not suffice. This is where it takes time for the industry to develop the suitable material locally since other countries often deny us that. As seen in steel for vikrant by Russia, and other cases too.

Point is our AD, anti air & ammo/all types of missiles will further move into hypersonic range once we get suitable material, tracking system all sorted out. Then LRSAM & equivalent will have speed in mach 5-7 range then.