Any specific reason that he never talks about strategic systems in public and yet keeps telling about this part when we know it is in part somewhat mutually exclusive ? There is absolutely no visible proof of any hgv oriented project being active that is non strategic (unless you consider ANSP controlled LRAShM, Rudrams kv etc) so what he always refers to with possible completion date by 2027-28 ?
View attachment FJ - The Hezbollah vs Israel back and forth is giving us some incredible Iron Dome footage. [1...mp4
Iron Dome maneuverable interception.
Iron Dome maneuverable interception.
If IAF wants, then maybe DRDO could convert NGARM to our own PL-17/R-37M/AIM-174B equivalent VLRAAM. Since it employs Astra MK1's basic aerodynamic configuration, so I don't think its air-to-air performance/range should suffer.
@vstol Jockey; @randomradio
What say?
NGARM speed is at low end around 2 mach , usually bvr ones are of higher speed ?
That could be sorted by using "high-grain/dense propellant".
In addition to my above point about using high energy rich/denser grain propellant. Of course that could substantially boost Mach 2.0 speed of NGARM to above Mach 4.0, but we could also use high loft flight profile to increase its kinematic range as well. Its current range is around 200kms. So launched in a lofted profile along with high energy grain propellant, both its range and speed could see substantial boost.
Anyways, all the above remains highly hypothetical cause it's known that DRDO is working on a triple-pulse long range air-to-air missile. That could form the basis of our VLRAAM rather than NGARM derived one. Let's see.......
High trust to weight ratio aero engines for fighter aircraft ? What's he talking about ? Have they already selected the partner for the JV for the 120 KN TF ?
They will use the same smokeless propellant tuned for about 1300m/s burn rate like astra , unless it is reduced to somewhat mach 3 class and with larger dia ngarm motor it may work perhaps.
Yes the 110kn engine, DRDO has someone on deputation role in French embassy in Paris over the past 12 months for this specifically.
The idea of the Rudram-1 itself being adapted as a dual role missile (A2A+A2S) is not too far fetched. The US had a concept called JDRADM - Joint Dual Role Air Dominance Missile (an anti-radiation AAM/ARM) - not too long ago to replace the HARM. Eventually, they split the requirement into AARGM/ER and AIM-260 but the concept itself was an interesting one.
As per some reports even AIM-9X can engage ground based moving targets, but then that's a totally different thing. I think with few modifications as we've discussed above, NGARM could be converted into our desi PL-17 equivalent.
With the above missiles, MKI will become our Day 1 "break the door" SEAD/DEAD fighter. It's amazing how far we've evolved the MKI even well beyond what the Russians have done with their Su-30SM/Su-35S. In fact, with the above anti-radiation/air-to-surface missiles, MKI's offensive capabilities have surpassed even that of the Rafale(as it lacks a SEAD weapon at the moment).
@randomradio, @Picdelamirand-oil, @Bon Plan, @Amarante
What's your take on the above(MKI vs Rafale in SEAD role??)
IA has rejected Prahaar because of its 150 kms range. Now DRDO is readying Prahaar 2 renamed as Pranash. The latter is to have 200kms range.
Having said that, now since we're looking for 300kms range Pinaka rockets, I don't know whether IA will ever induct Prahaar/Pranash or not
It's just new indigenous weapons replacing the old stuff.
NGARM replaces KH-31. RudraM II and III replace the Israeli Popeye and Crystal Maze. LRGB replaces SPICE.
The MKI always had these capabilities.
It's more correct to say we are replacing Russian stuff while supplementing new Israeli and French weapons, like Crystal Maze 2 and Hammer.
It's an option DRDO can pursue, but I don't think the IAF will want it.
Any half-a*sed AAM has to be a modification of a SAM, like the AIM-174B. NGARM has been designed for the anti-surface role. A better option is to just design a new missile.
If the IAF has acquired R-37Ms, I'd say there's certainly scope for it. But we've been using passive seeker equipped missiles (R-27P?) for the longest time which give us comparable capability to an R1 based VLRAAM imo.
Heck, there was even talk of adapting the 2500t Brahmos-A for taking out high value air targets some time back.
NGARM is way more effective than outdated KH-31 though. With nearly 200kms range, a squadron of MKI UPG. could force Pakistani SAM radars to completely shut-off. And MKIs won't even need to go anywhere near the threat zone.
This looks better than Rafale's strategy of flying low and fast only to pop up to launch 'Hammers' onto the targets for complete DEAD. Yes they indeed pulled that off in 2011 against Libyan IADS. But against PLAAF?? I'm not too sure here. MKI's Wild Weasel approach equipped with NGRAMs looks better here, IMO.
And both RudraM 2(300+ kms range) and RudraM3(500kms+ range) are way more superior than 78-100 kms range Popeye and even against 250-300kms range ROCKS.
MKI's offensive firepower will enhance multiple times with the inclusion of the aforementioned Air-to-Surface RudraM series missiles.
Yeah, but I just extrapolated this situation because of NGARM's aero profile which is exactly that of Astra(just longer and thicker). Anyways, it's just wait and watch for now. We'll need something to counter PL-17, though!
R-37M in IAF is just rumour based like KS-172 Novator was. Anyways I hope we do have it but since IAF hasn't confirmed it so just leave it at that.......
Nah, mate! R-27 in any form or version is just an outdated missile with max 140 kms range. It's way less that what current standard for VLAARM is. R-37M has 200-300kms range. PL-17 has confirmed 400-500 range. AIM-174B has over 600kms range(700 according to an expert).
We need our own VLAARM to counter PLAAF's J-16 + PL-17 combo. We already have a very limited fleet of AWACS/AEW&CS. So PL-17 is a threat that is to be taken very seriously by us.
Our only counter at the moment is Rafale + Meteor combo. It can take down both J-16 and PLAAF's KJ-500/KJ-2000.
BS. Though there are talks about converting our LFRJ missile for that role.
That's how ARMs have always worked, but they aren't very reliable. Hence why SEAD/DEAD capabilities of the Rafale and F-35 are considered next gen.
The former is next gen, the latter is tried and tested, and 4th gen. You need hundreds of sorties and thousands of ARMs to make any impact.
These are just upgrades over MKI's existing capabilities. It's nothing new. Against 30 km SPADA 2000, Popeye was enough. Now that PA is operating a 250 km capable HQ-9, a 350 km A2S weapon is necessary, that's about it.
SAAW is the only Indian weapon that can be considered new for the MKI. Hammer too provides new capabilities. Everything else is just indigenization.
I usually just visit this forum once in a while to look at all the activities going on(in defence sector), without actually logging into my account. But this statement just made me laugh so much that I had to log in to register my response. pffft......
The brain-rot that goes on in these types of forums is just
But NGRAM is just not like previous gen of ARMs! Of course, Rafale's "near by " Hammer strike could ensure DEAD while old ARMs like KH-31P that we've got could only achieve SEAD.
But my point was that this new NGARM would provide MKI with Rafale like DEAD ability without getting anywhere near the threat zone. Flying low/fast hasn't proved any better for the Russian Su-34s. While Rafale is much better in this role, but in this day and age of VSHORADS, this could still prove fatal.
NGARM has got a hybrid seeker. While old gen ARMs had only Passive Homing Head(PHH) seeker, that could be defeated by just turing off the SAM/Surveillance radars; NGARM is fully guided in the mid-course by PHH seeker along with very accurate INGPS, however for the end game it has an active Millimeter Wavelength(MMW) seeker which ensures "total destruction" of hostile SAM/Surveillance radars. So it is not like launching a volley of ARMs only to shut them off. It kills them with insane accuracy.
So, it shall enable MKI to achieve 'complete' DEAD without entering the threat zone. Isn't this approach better? Even French are now accepting that Rafale needs an ARM to take on future IADS.