Indian Navy LHD/LPD Amphibious Ships : Updates & Discussions
- Thread starter Gautam
- Start date
Should be land attack CMs, in support of the ground troops.
No point in throwing the navy's design manpower at something the shipyards can handle with the help of OEMs.
The previous tender was serious, not just an experiment. Also, HSL and L&T are likely to share, the navy is not going for a winner-takes-all approach. They are interested in creating a private competitor in the entire shipbuilding business. Which is also why the P-75I will be shared. Plus the fact that they want their NUH to come in from the private sector.
Nirbhay derivates ? 16 of them. Our destroyers can barely carry 8 AShMs/LACMs. I guess these ships will be a bigger than a destroyer but still. I guess the ITCM will be ready by the time these ships get to weapon outfitting stage.
I'm thinking more along the lines of Brahmos.
All our strike corps have a dedicated regiment of Brahmos with 36 operational missiles each. Since amphibious operations are offensive, they will benefit from a dedicated land-attack capability delivered by the Brahmos. This way, the commander on the ground has the same firepower as the Strike Corps.
LR-LACM and/or ITCM may not be as suitable as the Brahmos against some types of targets. Of course, it could be split between Brahmos and ITCM. 16 cells is a lot for a battalion.
Stick two quad launchers for Shaurya or K15 Sagarika on a vessel. Everytime it sets sail, our friends across the border will be Shitting bricks.
By the time the LHDs come in, we will have 7 SSBNs though. There's not gonna be much bricks left.
Are you saying HSL & L&T will both be building LHDs? Like 2 each?
Would seem to be a waste of resources as the total order is only 4 and we won't be building any more ships of this scale for quite a while after these are over (20+ years easily). This type of shared order designed to create infrastructure at new yards makes sense for surface combatants (<180m, <10,000T) or even for submarines considering we'd always be building them.
But capital ships/flat tops?
Well they're actions so far don't indicate any such intention. Even if the political will was there, the bureaucracy of MoD won't ever allow it. Look at the SOV midget submarine program: on one hand they had a Pvt company that built the hulls of SSBNs and on the other a mediocre DPSU that couldn't even refurbish a Kilo-class in 9 years.
Guess which one was 'nominated' for building the 2 x SOVs?
Two ships are plenty for just 1 shipyard. Also, there's no telling what the future will hold, since our finances will be at a different level by the time these ships are delivered.
Anyway, the previous tender was also split between HSL and either Rel or L&T.
You mean the SDVs? HSL was assigned by nomination years before. L&T has designed two new submarines, one is a 400T midget sub and the other is a so-called "coastal sub", the IN is interested in both.
HSL took 9 years because they worked with only 1 shift. Three shifts would have cut the time to 3 years if they did what the Russians do. But we do joke around about how L&T will deliver both their ships before HSL launches their first one. But the IN is serious about creating dual capacities for major surface combatants, meaning at least two shipyards should be available for construction, and for certain projects the private sector will also be roped in, like this one.
This should've been thought out earlier. The GoI should've shown some spine & declared it'd split the order equally between the PSU & Pvt Sector. In fact the GoI could've gone right ahead & nominated the PSU & floated the RFP to those foreign OEMs with the stipulation they'd have to team up with a PSU & a Pvt Sector company.
Of course , I'm assuming the government isn't in contravention of any laws here which I don't think it is .
Last time it went to single vendor because it was reserved for private shipyards. This time not the case. Only L&T can take this up from private sector.
It's was RNEL/Pipavav with Mistral vs L&T with Juan Carlos not HSL.
Definitely not the case. MoD reserved the last tender for private sector. Then accusing them of working against private industry is a bit stretch. It's not their fault Pipavav got bankrupt.
I'm talking about the requirement for 2 x SOV originally requested in 2015. That's what the L&T "SOV400" was developed for.
SDVs are the small 4-man vehicles that attach to larger submarines. These 400-ton SOVs will be carrying 2 x SDVs one on each side. I don't know if there's any tender for that.
The 400t midget sub & the "coastal sub" are one & the same, it's been a continuously evolving design since at least 2018, but the general concept has remained the same - a diesel-powered midget sub that can dock multiple SDVs for special forces operations.
DDR did a full rundown on the program:
Is This The Indian Navy’s New Special Operations Midget Submarine? | Delhi Defence Review
delhidefencereview.com
I'm talking about the requirement for 2 x SOV originally requested in 2015. That's what the L&T "SOV400" was developed for.
SDVs are the small 4-man vehicles that attach to larger submarines. These 400-ton SOVs will be carrying 2 x SDVs one on each side. I don't know if there's any tender for that.
The 400t midget sub & the "coastal sub" are one & the same, it's been a continuously evolving design since at least 2018, but the general concept has remained the same - a diesel-powered midget sub that can dock multiple SDVs for special forces operations.
DDR did a full rundown on the program:
Is This The Indian Navy’s New Special Operations Midget Submarine? | Delhi Defence Review
The tender itself doesn't exist, since it's a nomination only an RFP will be sent to HSL. HSL was nominated long ago to provide a design for it. L&T followed suit with their own. But MoD decided it's not a high priority. While HSL was looking for a foreign partner to give them a design, it seems L&T used MoD's apathy to catch up.
I don't agree with the nomination process for PSUs. It's how Reliance lost the Ka-226 deal to HAL. All because govt laws did not allow nomination of private companies and Russia wanted the Indian partner to be nominated by the govt and not be their responsibility. They changed it a few years down the line. I'm hoping L&T does not become a victim to this as well.
Anyway, the coastal sub seems to be different. Yeah, it can use the same design, but it has been designed for a different role.
Example:
SSK Andrasta Littoral Submarine
The 19-crew, 855t displacement, Andrasta submarine, announced by DCNS in September 2008, has been optimised for littoral operations in coastal…
www.naval-technology.com
Well reliance's Mihan plant was supposed to be this:
It turned out to be instead this wretched thing.
Building KA226 in this dump would be a challenge imo.
That looks like the smallest building in the complex. There's a pretty big building right next to it, but not in the image. Look up GE.
There are at present two massive sheds with the rest of the land lying vacant. A company whose directors I personally know did a classified application HVAC project for them in 2019 & in true Ambani style received their payment after a legal notice more than 2 yrs after commissioning the said project.
I asked around and someone sent this to me.
Anyway, this is DRAL, a Reliance-French unit. Had Reliance gotten the Ka-226T contract, the Reliance-Russian unit will obviously be built elsewhere.
Dunno why you're making a big deal about a shed.
Because you have been cheerleading for a scamster for quite a while now.