Yeah, IN seems to call the SSN program as Project-77 and it was reduced to 3 subs and even they are awaiting the CCS clearance.Interesting read, thoughts?
Indian Nuclear Attack Submarine (Project 77) - Updates & Discussions
- Thread starter Ashwin
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It is awaiting clearance since 2019 lol such a pathetic state, even strategic programs are now also not getting funded. Only god can save us .
Without having done enough background work is there is any reason to clear it? Who was/is willing to do tech share for this? We are not even aware of multiple reasons behind that are crucial for this well guarded much needed yet unobtainable project.
If we can’t add another line after 2030 ( with 7+ trillion economy), it would be a shame !!
Sure. Expanding the line can be done later on, my post addresses that. But the plan for the first 6 will not change. We can even build 3 more in parallel in a second line if that's what they decide, so we can have 3 more between 2040-45.
AUKUS can open up Russian subs for import though.
Bruh...even 3 subs did not get approval last 4 years. Now you want parallel lines? Will it happen in our life time?
I think the clearance , public announcements of it, etc stems from how the project is classified. If the SSN program aka Project 75 Alpha has been characterized as a black project I doubt we're going to hear anything leave alone about the CCS clearance for mfg in public.
SSN project is under Navy own budget, ie the ones we do not hear anything about are the strategic ones that PMO controls. I expect something in the lines with the french being done. Some small projects like periscope etc are coming up, SLCM likely getting some concrete form by 2028-30 maybe, torpedo tech maturing quickly. Who knows how the reactor is coming & if major help from Rus coming after aukus deal or not. Pumpjet tech also need to mature well.
Yes , it does come under the IN & what you say is quite possible . Wikipedia not the best or even most reliable of sources has this to report .
Project 77-class submarine - Wikipedia
Then there's PKS
India's Project 78A SSN Construction Programme Being Accelerated With French Partnership & Mentoring
Official Statement: France’s President Emmanuel Macron dialled India’s PM Narendra Modi on September 21, 2021 to talk about strengthening c...
trishul-trident.blogspot.com
Owing to the lack of literature in the public domain on such sensitive issues , I find PKS's observations & predictions on our SSBN & SSN program quite informative & useful .
For eg he called out the fact that we haven't tested our BMs from the submarines but from submerged pontoons many yrs ago & stubbornly persisted with his stand in the face of much opposition on his blog from other commentators till he was vindicated when news came out late last yr that we'd tested the K4(?) from INS Arihant .
I like such story tellers & his track record in divulging such information which's hard to come by any other sources plus his predictive abilities has been quite good & consistent over the yrs .
It's a product of finances. SSNs are really, really expensive. The unit cost is merely the start, so even getting 3 SSNs is a very big deal with our current economic standards. A large chunk of the money goes into buying raw materials very early on during the construction phase, the later phases of the construction are more difficult but cheaper, because it mainly involves assembly and integration.
When our economy doubles, we can afford twice as much as we can today.
Are they more expensive than the billions of USD we are going to forfeit this year? If not, then that can’t be a reasonable excuse!! IMHO, it’s shear inefficiency.
PKS ji has also said that there doesn't exist any submarine by the designation S-4*. Only 3 are there under the ATV project and the first two S-2 and S-3 are mainly SSGN but not SSBN and only the last sub S-4 has somewhat of SSBN capability.Yes , it does come under the IN & what you say is quite possible . Wikipedia not the best or even most reliable of sources has this to report .
Project 77-class submarine - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
Then there's PKS
India's Project 78A SSN Construction Programme Being Accelerated With French Partnership & Mentoring
Official Statement: France’s President Emmanuel Macron dialled India’s PM Narendra Modi on September 21, 2021 to talk about strengthening c...
Owing to the lack of literature in the public domain on such sensitive issues , I find PKS's observations & predictions on our SSBN & SSN program quite informative & useful .
For eg he called out the fact that we haven't tested our BMs from the submarines but from submerged pontoons many yrs ago & stubbornly persisted with his stand in the face of much opposition on his blog from other commentators till he was vindicated when news came out late last yr that we'd tested the K4(?) from INS Arihant .
I like such story tellers & his track record in divulging such information which's hard to come by any other sources plus his predictive abilities has been quite good & consistent over the yrs .
We can't say anything for sure. Someone said 3 were approved long back. Now someone is saying that approval has been pending for so long.
Since it is a black project, it is very hard to get any clear view on the status of the project.
But then how does he explain the recent test launch of the K4 from INS Arihant ?
I personally have it from a reliable source that once the S-5 series is commissioned , post MLU & refit , Arihant would function as a trainer & Arighat would be converted into an SSGN . The IN is in very preliminary stages of conducting studies for a new class of SSGNs & spy subs like the Seawolf which would follow the construction of the S-5 series in the next decade .
Sir ji, I believe it take us around 9-11 years to build a SSBN. We have 2 active SSBN and we will have 2 more by 2026. IMHO we will see the S-5 class coming to life by 2035+ around the same time we will also have the SSN. 3 next generation SSBN and 3 SSN by 2040.
I'm also liking the fact that we are starting to put our feet in the shoes that are similar to that of the UK and France. UK has not yet commissioned all the Astute-class SSN and they are talking about SSN(R). The last SNLE2G was commissioned in ~2012 and they are already planning on SNLE3G. We are also doing the same with S-5 class.
Preliminary information ( take it with a pinch of salt ) is that between 2040-50 , IN hopes to operate 1 trainer SSBN in INS Arihant 1+3 SSGN in INS Arighat + successor class, upto 3 nos of the successor to S-5 series which would have a 20,000 Tonnes + displacement ( preliminary studies for the N reactor was to have commenced this yr) , additional 3+3-6 SSNs not counting the 3 nos already approved , 2-3 Seawolf type submarines for like activities in addition to ones we already have sailing, under construction & various stages of planning pending construction.
The forfeiture news is currently speculation. Russian deals that were supposed to have been signed this year have not gone through due to payment problems (more likely an excuse, war is the real reason). So they may funnel that money into domestic programs, particularly other navy programs. The SSN program itself is pretty much at its peak, throwing money at it won't help expand production at this stage. A whole new set of non-existent manpower and infrastructure will be necessary to deal with what is essentially a one-off problem.
Expanding the SSN program requires a long term plan and long term funding.