BMD-4 has been a disaster in Ukraine....surviving Russian VDV troops doesn't trust the tin can anymore & prefer another tin can called BMP-2 & BMP-3 over it.
BMD-4 type vehicles only come into play once local air superiority has been achieved or they have no chance,
For SF ops behind enemy lines in the early days of war, you'd airdrop lighter ATV type vehicles like Polaris MZR or even the Mahindra Armado.
For SF ops behind enemy lines in the early days of war, you'd airdrop lighter ATV type vehicles like Polaris MZR or even the Mahindra Armado.
Polish Borsuk
Russian Kurganetz -25
Both are Amphibious capable....Polish one is under production.... Light weight yet offer decent protection allegedly.
lightly armoured IFV have been a disaster in Russia-Ukraine War.... All Russian Cold war philosophy regarding low footprint & massive numbers has been tossed out of the window by modern sensors. BMD-4M's got not just destroyed but shattered into smithereens. BMP 1 to 3 got annihilated in thousands.
vulnerability of these lightly armoured IFV to Artillery , Anti Tank weapons & even small arms fire was out in the open for everyone to see.... Complete disaster.
India operates thousands of such tin can & we are just replacing those with another tin cans with better sensors.
25 tonne IFV won't cut it
Russian Kurganetz -25
Both are Amphibious capable....Polish one is under production.... Light weight yet offer decent protection allegedly.
lightly armoured IFV have been a disaster in Russia-Ukraine War.... All Russian Cold war philosophy regarding low footprint & massive numbers has been tossed out of the window by modern sensors. BMD-4M's got not just destroyed but shattered into smithereens. BMP 1 to 3 got annihilated in thousands.
vulnerability of these lightly armoured IFV to Artillery , Anti Tank weapons & even small arms fire was out in the open for everyone to see.... Complete disaster.
India operates thousands of such tin can & we are just replacing those with another tin cans with better sensors.
25 tonne IFV won't cut it
Firstvexamples of FICV or even final spec is yet to out. How can some one tell that its an another tin can?
Because it's going to be a next-generation ICV which means it's going to be way ahead of older generation BMP-1/2 in all criteria including firepower, mobility, carrying capacity and even self-protection.
As per news, it'll have APS along with LWS. That should itself make it far better than in-service Russian ones.
Putin did pitch the BMP-3 to us during a meeting with Modi a few years back. I think the two signed an MoU of sorts on license producing the Ka-226 in India. Thankfully, the deal didn't go through or we'd be stuck with the BMPs for another 30-40 years.
Not that the BMP-2 is going out of service anytime soon (too expensive to replace in bulk, probably will take us 20 years to phase them out completely) but the thought of having another BMP-series IFV when the world, including the Russians themselves, were moving to better protected, better armed combat vehicles was kinda alarming!
The Poles were also an ex-Soviet block client like us. They operated everything from MiG-29s and T-72s to BMP-1/2s and more. But they have embarked on a rapid modernisation drive since joining NATO which continues till date. We, on the other hand, are still stuck with age-old gear, with limited upgrades like the T-72CIA, BMP-2K and T-90Mk3.
To be fair, the DRDO has been pitching modular composite armour panels to improve the protection levels of the BMPs but the IA decided against it. If the lightweight composite chassis of the Zorawar is derived from the same tech, I don't see why the Army would have said 'no' to outfitting the BMP fleet. Guess we'll never know.
To be fair, the DRDO has been pitching modular composite armour panels to improve the protection levels of the BMPs but the IA decided against it. If the lightweight composite chassis of the Zorawar is derived from the same tech, I don't see why the Army would have said 'no' to outfitting the BMP fleet. Guess we'll never know.
Lightweight composite chassis will go flying high in real war.... Like they are goin in Ukraine right now. Lightweight has no future other than if soldier life doesn't matter. You will have your victory but at cost of millions of dead man.
Bro, given that the Ukranians are adding ERA blocks to the mighty Abrams shows that every tank can be busted. Crew training and experience matter a lot. We've seen Challengers, Leos and Abrams getting taken out by loitering munitions and FPVs.
Frankly, this was a shock for me too. I'd always rated Russian armour tech as inferior but the last few months have been an eye-opener.
Kanchan composite armour on the Arjun Mk1 was able to withstand direct shots during comparative trails with the T-90S, some years back. So add-on modular armour panels would have worked well on the BMP-2s, imo. But maybe there were other reasons.
Personally, I'd love to see the BMP-2s turret replaced with a new-gen local/Isreali one. It doesn't make sense to leave those side-mounted LM launcher dangling along that tiny turret. Plus the optics are also protruding out. If this is the final design, it's sub-optimal, to say the least!
Frankly, this was a shock for me too. I'd always rated Russian armour tech as inferior but the last few months have been an eye-opener.
Kanchan composite armour on the Arjun Mk1 was able to withstand direct shots during comparative trails with the T-90S, some years back. So add-on modular armour panels would have worked well on the BMP-2s, imo. But maybe there were other reasons.
Personally, I'd love to see the BMP-2s turret replaced with a new-gen local/Isreali one. It doesn't make sense to leave those side-mounted LM launcher dangling along that tiny turret. Plus the optics are also protruding out. If this is the final design, it's sub-optimal, to say the least!
The logical answer is Tanks are the fighting machine of past. A few weeks trained group of teenagers with third gen anti tank missiles can take down a column of tanks manned by highly trained crews.
Agree. Some tank manufacturers just built an invincible aura around their products using slick marketing tactics, that's all.
The Isreali Merkava is one such vehicle that turned out to vulnerable to close-in attacks with crude IEDs where the vaunted Iron Fist APS+ armour couldn't do shit. The high and mighty have been utterly humbled.
Tanks are going nowhere.... Hard kill APS can defeat all type of current & future ATGMs even top attack one. I would like to have my a** sit inside a tank in real war rather than it being chased down by a FPV drone on foot.
Stupid take..... Urban buildup will always be a danger doesn't matter if you have APS or not. Israel at the end of the day has send Hamas flying into oblivion.
There is nothing that can replace a tank period
Yeas it can. But it will be overwhelmed by few attacks, ATGMs are damn cheap than tank, & probably the hard kill mechanism too.
Remember we are waging war to use Tanks & giving protection to tanks by any means,but to achieve an objective.
Hamas is not a regular fighting force, i doubt they even had credible atgms. And most importantly, its the aerial bombing & special mission broght hamas down to coffins not the tanks.
Armies around the world are havimg metathesiophobia when comes to tank. WW1 broght the end of horse cavalry, WW3 will do the same to tank too.
ATGMs are not cheap.... Most non Top Attack line of sight ATGMs can not penetrate tanks like T 90 from front..... Top attack Like javelin are quite expensive & can be countered easily by Hard Kill APS.
APS sensors have field of view limitations at close range. If you add metal cages, how would the sensors even detect incoming top -attack rounds? You also need a good amount of reloads to protect against ambushed attacks. T-72/90 tanks don't have that kind of space.
In urban warfare scenarios, you'd need scout vehicles or infantry teams to go in before the tanks to navigate through lanes and deal with anti-tank teams. Tanks are not built for urban combat.
Unless tank units field integral drone swarm launchers/laser/DEW platforrms of their own, they will be vulnerable on the modern battlefield. That tech is still some time away from maturity.
Indivdual tanks can't realistically be expected to generate enough electrical power to mount these systems. I think the future is NLOS fires from mounted artillery, mortar and smaller IFVs cued by drones.
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You can fire roughly 50 javeline towards T90,still it will be a cheaper option than T90. Now do the cost analysis of top end tanks like lecrec or Abram, against a tank with active protection system that difference will further balloons.