Kalvari Class Submarines - Updates & Discussions

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Amarante said:
It is certain that it will be easier (cheaper?) with the F21 than with an "exotic" torpedo. The Brazilian Navy has chosen the F21.
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Easier for sure, because the weapon system is from the beginning studied with F21 parameters, but i's only a question of some parameters.
For Brazil : as they didn't have their own torpedoe, it was easier to opt for this brand new one.

Note that the first batch of F21 was found a little bit short in perf by the french defense agency (DGA). Range (and maybe speed) was not at the level of the german promises (the engine case is german). A batch 2 with improvements is on track.
Ankit Kumar said:
When is the refit of Kalvari planned btw?
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Good question. Mid life? (ie in 15 years.... more or less?). I hope far sooner.
 
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Okay so got this

Naval News comments:

As previously reported, Naval Group India engineers are already working with the DRDO for the integration of an Indian designed AIP module. Initially, the 5th and 6th submarine should have received an AIP plug. But due to delays in the propulsion module design at DRDO, it was later decided that the AIP plug will be retrofitted to each Kalvari-class submarine during their first normal refit that occurs every 7 years. The AIP plug will bring the length of the Scorpene/Kalvari-class from 67,56 meters to 77,56 meters.

www.navalnews.com

India's DRDO and Naval Group to Upgrade Submarines with AIP - Naval News

DRDO & Naval Group sign agreement to integrate the Fuel Cell Air Independent Propulsion (AIP) system onboard Indian Navy Scorpene type submarine INS Kalvari.
www.navalnews.com www.navalnews.com

Kalvari was commissioned im 2017. So that's 2024 for going into refit.

It usually takes 18-24 months for a refit. So by 2026 end Kalvari would go into testing. Atleast 2-3 years of testing.

By 2028-29 it would be certified.
 
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Ankit Kumar said:
It usually takes 18-24 months for a refit. So by 2026 end Kalvari would go into testing. Atleast 2-3 years of testing.

By 2028-29 it would be certified.
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What're you talking about? This isn't a N submarine refit. The entire refit will be over within 15 months max & testing should be over by 2026-27 i.e 2½-3rs after which the testing schedule & probably the refit schedule of forthcoming submarines would see compression of this time schedule as well.
 
_Anonymous_ said:
What're you talking about? This isn't a N submarine refit. The entire refit will be over within 15 months max & testing should be over by 2026-27 i.e 2½-3rs after which the testing schedule & probably the refit schedule of forthcoming submarines would see compression of this time schedule as well.
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Type 209s take 18 months, 877s take 22 months.... Usually. As this will also be an upgrade, so 24 months is kinda optimistic.

Under sea trails will take time. The French 2nd gen AIP already has computer generated simulation data available. But IN wants a proven at sea system in p75i. No reason it won't demand the same for this too.
 
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Ankit Kumar said:
Type 209s take 18 months, 877s take 22 months.... Usually. As this will also be an upgrade, so 24 months is kinda optimistic.
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The Scorpene is built in a modular manner. Take it from me it's 15 months +/- 1 month.

Ankit Kumar said:
Under sea trails will take time. The French 2nd gen AIP already has computer generated simulation data available. But IN wants a proven at sea system in p75i. No reason it won't demand the same for this too.
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Already extensively tested on land including various simulations & on jigs, not that sea trials are easy. But it's not going to take beyond 15-20 months for certification post which the IN can stretch trials for as many months or yrs they want to.

Trust me, a senior official of MDL who's now retired & works for an engg consultancy has shared this with me. Know him since he was in MDL in charge of civil engg dpt hence building the new workshop to mfg the Kalvari which was delayed by 3-4 yrs.
 
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_Anonymous_ said:
Trust me, a senior official of MDL who's now retired & works for an engg consultancy has shared this with me. Know him since he was in MDL in charge of civil engg dpt hence building the new workshop to mfg the Kalvari which was delayed by 3-4 yrs.
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Will adding the AIP plug decrease overall performance of the sub? What's his take
 
_Anonymous_ said:
Already extensively tested on land including various simulations & on jigs, not that sea trials are easy. But it's not going to take beyond 15-20 months for certification post which the IN can stretch trials for as many months or yrs they want to.

Trust me, a senior official of MDL who's now retired & works for an engg consultancy has shared this with me. Know him since he was in MDL in charge of civil engg dpt hence building the new workshop to mfg the Kalvari which was delayed by 3-4 yrs.
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French 2nd gen AIP is much ahead in certification actually. Still absurd rules made them leave p75i.

You really think a domestic platform will be shown favour over a foreign one? In India ?

But for the sake of Navy , I hope that's true.
Btw a single service personal doens't means a guarantee. Few years back a certain section of IAF was looking at a fleet of 189 Rafales. Then things happened.
 
Ashwin said:
Will adding the AIP plug decrease overall performance of the sub? What's his take
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I think the subs propulsion was designed keeping in mind a possible MESMA plug. So our AIP plug shouldn't cause any significant deficits. But our AIP has certain advantages over MESMA cycle. So that should maybe overcome a few issues...

There will be minor lags though.
 
Navy may approach govt for 3 more Kalvari submarines

Everytime a Scorpene is launched or commissioned, we get this update. I hope to be surprised atleast once and see this turn into reality.

"
The Indian Navy is considering approaching the government for the construction of three more Kalvari class submarines, fitted with long endurance air independent propulsion (AIP) unit, by Mazagon Dock Shipbuilders Ltd (MDL) in collaboration with French Naval Group.

According to South Block officials, the Indian Navy is expected to approach the Defence Acquisition Council (DAC) soon for acceptance of necessity (AoN) for three more diesel attack submarines under the “Make in India” project with the French Naval Group expected to test the DRDO developed AIP system before fitting in the new submarines. Initially, the Navy had the option to construct three more submarines after contracting six with the Naval group, but this option was cancelled in 2016 after Naval Headquarters wanted the government to clear six submarines under Project 75 (I) or fitted with AIP after floating global tenders.

"
 
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Ankit Kumar said:
French 2nd gen AIP is much ahead in certification actually. Still absurd rules made them leave p75i.

You really think a domestic platform will be shown favour over a foreign one? In India ?

But for the sake of Navy , I hope that's true.
Btw a single service personal doens't means a guarantee. Few years back a certain section of IAF was looking at a fleet of 189 Rafales. Then things happened.
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I didn't get the context of your post . Are you sure this was addressed to what I had to say coz it seems you've mixed up your responses.

Hasn't the Naval Group just signed a protocol with NMRL for certifying the AIP in the Scorpene ? Moreover this is the IN we're talking about - the only service which has backed indigenous ventures to the hilt . Not only that , they've been part of the entire development process by inserting their own personnel into such programs since the very inception.

Moreover when you draw up the tech specs of a tender partly you do it for the tech you desire which obviously means favouritism & partly you draw up tech specs to keep out those you don't want . The way the tender was drawn up for the Project 75(I) it's clear the IN didn't exactly favour NG . Why was this the case ? I think we've speculated enough on this topic already . The latest information on Twitter is that IN is desperately seeking Japanese participation in the project since they meet all the criteria.
 
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Amarante said:
Next year. Edit: not so sure. Read it on twitter but can’t find the source anymore
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_Anonymous_ said:
This isn't pertaining to the refit . It seems more a forecast on the possibility of building another submarine
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1300 crores won't get you a new sub :D its likely repair/refit work. navy got their own repair facility I think, only for major work they send it to the dockyards.
 
marich01 said:
1300 crores won't get you a new sub :D its likely repair/refit work. navy got their own repair facility I think, only for major work they send it to the dockyards.
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Check out the price at which the Scorpene deal was concluded please. It was reportedly 1100 crore but saw escalation.
 
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