Neither NG nor TKMS have withdrawn from the latest RFI issued though both have reservations about certain clauses. I'm guessing a couple of rounds of talks would follow post which this RFI gets withdrawn & a fresh final one's released.
France gives India’s subs a stealthy tech boost
France gives India's subs a stealthy tech boost - Asia Times
France and India have signed an agreement to cooperate on air-independent propulsion (AIP) technology to upgrade the latter’s Kalvari-class submarines,
asiatimes.com
Thanks to ze germans.
But it was only marketing datas, as already said. If not the entire deal would have been canceled.
It was also said that pump propeller has also been released to India. But maybe only for indian SSN, because not so easy to replace a classical propeller with a pump one if not studied from the beginning.France gives India’s subs a stealthy tech boost
France gives India's subs a stealthy tech boost - Asia Times
France and India have signed an agreement to cooperate on air-independent propulsion (AIP) technology to upgrade the latter’s Kalvari-class submarines,
(cnbcindonesia, feb.24)
"(...) Regarding the competition between the Naval Group and TKMS, there are several things that decision makers in Indonesia should pay attention to. First, the operational technical considerations of submarines. Considering the operational technical advantages of submarines should only be one of a number of considerations in determining which submarine to choose. The end of the debate regarding AIP (Air Independent Propulsion) versus non-AIP submarines will be determined by what kind of operational tactics are needed by the navy as a submarine operator, so there is no single and absolute answer to the debate.
Second, anticipate technological advances. The current procurement of submarines must anticipate future technological advances related to submarines. Such as the use of lithium-ion batteries to replace lead-acid and AIP batteries where lithium-ion batteries have better performance than AIP in submarine operations. Japan has already started moving from AIP technology to lithium-ion batteries, while Naval Group will follow Japan's lead in the next few years. Other shipyards have looked at using lithium-ion batteries in submarines, although they have not made it public when they will start adopting the technology and in what configuration.
Third, economic benefits for Indonesia. Procurement of new submarines should not just be an ordinary weapons trading activity, but can provide economic benefits to Indonesia. Such economic benefits can be obtained if the offers made by the Naval Group and/or TKMS directly encourage the creation of an ecosystem for the Indonesian submarine industry. The submarine industry ecosystem in Indonesia may be created as referring to India's experience where the Naval Group in partnership with Magazon Dock Shipbuilder Limited (MDL) created an industrial ecosystem consisting of 50 Indian firms. (...)" /deepl
Looking forward to the Realization of the Indonesian Submarine Program
excerpt:"(...) Regarding the competition between the Naval Group and TKMS, there are several things that decision makers in Indonesia should pay attention to. First, the operational technical considerations of submarines. Considering the operational technical advantages of submarines should only be one of a number of considerations in determining which submarine to choose. The end of the debate regarding AIP (Air Independent Propulsion) versus non-AIP submarines will be determined by what kind of operational tactics are needed by the navy as a submarine operator, so there is no single and absolute answer to the debate.
Second, anticipate technological advances. The current procurement of submarines must anticipate future technological advances related to submarines. Such as the use of lithium-ion batteries to replace lead-acid and AIP batteries where lithium-ion batteries have better performance than AIP in submarine operations. Japan has already started moving from AIP technology to lithium-ion batteries, while Naval Group will follow Japan's lead in the next few years. Other shipyards have looked at using lithium-ion batteries in submarines, although they have not made it public when they will start adopting the technology and in what configuration.
Third, economic benefits for Indonesia. Procurement of new submarines should not just be an ordinary weapons trading activity, but can provide economic benefits to Indonesia. Such economic benefits can be obtained if the offers made by the Naval Group and/or TKMS directly encourage the creation of an ecosystem for the Indonesian submarine industry. The submarine industry ecosystem in Indonesia may be created as referring to India's experience where the Naval Group in partnership with Magazon Dock Shipbuilder Limited (MDL) created an industrial ecosystem consisting of 50 Indian firms. (...)" /deepl
Navy to approach govt for three AIP-equipped attack submarines
Good news. Finally sense prevails. If paper work on this is quick, we can actually see the signing of this follow on contract in 2023-24 FY.
" The Indian Navy is expected to approach Defence Acquisition Council (DAC) for acceptance of the necessity for three air independent propulsion (AIP) equipped diesel attack submarines to be built at Mazagon Dock Shipbuilders Limited (MDL) in collaboration with the French Naval Group. "
Good news. Finally sense prevails. If paper work on this is quick, we can actually see the signing of this follow on contract in 2023-24 FY.
" The Indian Navy is expected to approach Defence Acquisition Council (DAC) for acceptance of the necessity for three air independent propulsion (AIP) equipped diesel attack submarines to be built at Mazagon Dock Shipbuilders Limited (MDL) in collaboration with the French Naval Group. "
Let's hope Shishir Gupta is correct this time. He definitely has some inside knowledge.
I am thinking what names they will get.
Kalvari-class already use the names from previous Kalvari and Vela class so we might see some new names coming.
There were a total of 8 subs. So 2 more names remain to be used. The 3rd one will have to be new.
The other 2 are used as a museum so I don't think they can reuse their names.
Possible, but they go ahead with discussions and clearance. Which will two years. Enough time for integration confirmation.what if they are waiting on aip integration success before placing follow up deal?
Our policy makes are not that forward looking IMO!.
Well I said because of naval group agreeing to install DRDO aip onboard. So that is possibly a good indicator? Until that fitment is good and all well, actual deal can not be confirmed. Lots of risk matters that would complicate both certification & insurance process.
(swarajya, may19)
India's Submarine Building Capacity To Remain Idle As Last Kalvari-Class Boat Goes To Trials Without New Project In Sight
INS Vaghsheer, the sixth and final boat of the Kalvari-class or Scorpene-class, has commenced sea trials. The submarine is scheduled to be delivered to the Indian Navy by the end of this year.
This will mark the completion of the $3.5 billion Project-75, which started in 2005 after India signed a deal with the French defense major Naval Group to manufacture six submarines in India with technology transfer.
However, with INS Vaghsheer entering the sea trials phase, the production line at the Mazagaon Dockyard, where these boats were built, has once again become empty, with no new orders in sight.
Although there are rumors that the Navy might be planning to buy three additional Scorpene submarines, a final contract has yet to be signed.
Moreover, Project-75I (India), the program for building submarines equipped with Air-Independent Propulsion (AIP) technology, has remained stalled for years, experiencing repeated delays. The Ministry of Defense has granted an extension for bid submissions for the project.
The delays are due to the stringent requirements of the liability clause and the need for the bidder to have an in-service AIP system.
Currently, only the German Shipyard Thyssenkrupp Marine Systems (TKMS) possesses an in-service AIP system, installed in the U-212 submarines of the German and Italian Navies. This single-vendor situation significantly diminishes the prospects of the Project-75I moving forward.
Consequently, the infrastructure and industrial capacity developed for the Kalvari-class submarine project, as well as the knowledge gained from constructing the six boats, are likely to remain unused.
This mirrors the past situation when the production line became empty after the construction of only two boats of the Shishumar-class.
In 1981, India signed a deal with the German government to purchase four U-209 submarines, with two submarines bought off the shelf and the other two built by MDL with technology transfer.
Later, an agreement to build another two submarines was signed but was subsequently cancelled. After completing the construction of the two submarines, the MDL production line became empty.
The technological expertise gained during the project was lost since no further submarines were built.
Furthermore, India imported ten Russian Kilo-class submarines off-the-shelf, also known as the Sindhughosh-class in the Indian service.
The idling of the production line is occuring despite the Indian Navy experiencing a decline in the number of submarines.
Sindhughosh-class submarines, which form the backbone of the Navy's under-sea fleet, have begun to retire from service. As more Sindhughosh-class boats retire and the Shishumar-class submarines age, the situation will worsen. The oldest Shishumar-class boat, 'INS Shishumar', is 37 years old, and the youngest, 'INS Shankul', is nearly 29 years old.
The strategic picture, however, appears even worse.
China is commissioning aircraft carriers, warships, and submarines in large numbers, and experts believe that by the end of this decade, the Chinese will start sending their aircraft carriers to the Indian Ocean Region for force projection. They already deploy both conventional and nuclear-powered submarines in the Indian Ocean.
Earlier this month, the Indian Navy Chief, Admiral R Hari Kumar, revealed that the Chinese have three to six warships in the IOR at any given time.
China is also assisting the Pakistani Navy in increasing its capabilities. The Pakistan Navy already operates three French-made Agosta-90B AIP-equipped submarines and is set to receive eight more AIP-equipped Chinese Yuan-class submarines by the end of this decade.
On the other hand, the Indian Navy currently does not operate any AIP-equipped submarines. INS Kalvari, the lead boat of the Kalvari-class submarines, will receive AIP only after undergoing its first refit, which is scheduled to take place sometime this decade.
The failure to capitalize on the infrastructure, technology, and industrial capacity developed for the Kalvari-class submarines will have dire consequences for India's ability to design and build conventional submarines indigenously./end