it's surprising: the press release speaks of an "extension of the partnership", but never speaks explicitly of "3 additional submarines"...
naval group: New Scorpenes to have 60% indigenous content, says Naval Group CEO - The Economic Times
The additional Scorpene submarines India ordered will have a high indigenous content, including several high-level technologies like combat systems and air independent propulsion (AIP), Naval Group CEO Pierre Eric Pommellet has said.
When compared to HAL and its "we need 17 times more man-hours than Dassault to build an aircraft (also we want you to be fully responsible for quality but without allowing you to exert any quality control)", anything else was the safer choice.
How exactly HAL comes in this picture? You could have chosen any industrial entity. L&T, TATA, Mahindra, godrej etc the list is long who has some minimum qualification to be a partner on a technical project. But the french choose the a crony that too an incompetent one who is facing bankruptcy. You could have gone with his elder brother. He could have delivered results.
Dassault Aviation and Tata could join forces to prepare for future Franco-Indian partnerships
17 July 2023
While the failure of the MRCA programme in 2014 was largely due to the obligation imposed on Dassault Aviation to collaborate with the state aircraft manufacturer HAL for the manufacture of 96 of the 114 Rafale B/C to join the Indian Air Force, The French aerospace group's decision to turn to the Indian industrial group Reliance to create the industrial joint venture to carry out the offsets linked to the acquisition of the 36 aircraft ordered by New Delhi in 2016 was roundly criticised by the Indian press and opposition, and was at the heart of the suspicions of corruption that were brought against the French aircraft manufacturer.
Although Dassault's choice of Reliance as a partner for its Indian manufacturing base has been cleared of these highly electoral accusations for several years now, it remains a handicap to the company's ability to move forward.
At a time when Emmanuel Macron and Narendra Modi announced, during the latter's visit to Paris for the 14 July festivities and in connection with a forthcoming order for 26 Rafale M and 3 Scorpene submarines for the Indian Navy, the intensification of Franco-Indian cooperation, including the future design of a mysterious 'air combat system', it was therefore necessary for Dassault to resolve this problem.
It seems that this will soon be the case. According to the **** website, which is often well-informed and free from the frequent excesses of the Indian press, Dassault Aviation has put an end to its joint venture with Reliance, and may instead move closer to the Indian industrial group Tata, so as to present a much smoother surface to any criticism from the Indian opposition, while avoiding a repeat of the HAL episode.
The Air Combat System mentioned by the French and Indian leaders could be based on the AMCA programme, which should enable the Indian Air Force to replace its Su-30MKIs over the next decade.
The first step will be to take over the industrial activity currently based in India, which produces components for Falcon and Rafale aircraft in the Mihan special economic zone in Nagpur, in the state of Maharashtra.
Above all, this future joint venture will enable Dassault to structure future cooperative ventures, whether for the future air combat system mentioned by the two leaders a few days ago, which could refer to either the Indian Air Force's AMCA programme or the Indian Navy's TEDBF, or to strengthen the French proposal around the Rafale F4/F5 for the MMRCA 2 programme.
Paradoxically, Tata is already involved in this competition with Lockheed-Martin, which is proposing the F-21, a version of the F-16 Block 70 adapted to the initial requirements of the Indian Air Force and renamed so as not to be hampered by the pre-existing co-production agreements concerning the F-16 signed with Greece and the Netherlands.
The fact that Dassault Aviation and Tata are collaborating suggests that the Rafale could now be the favourite in this competition, while the F-21 and the Gripen E/F, both lighter and single-engined, would now be out of the running. Faced with a significant reduction in the number of its squadrons, the Indian Air Force now prefers heavier aircraft with greater reach and carrying capacity.
Whether or not this is in anticipation of the MMRCA 2 programme, the merger of Dassault Aviation and Tata marks a first step in the reorganisation of France's defence industrial presence in India, and demonstrates that the commitments made by Emmanuel Macron and Narendra Modi on 14 July will be implemented in the relatively short term.
This represents a profound change in France's defence industrial doctrine. For the first time, France appears to be making a commitment to a non-European player in this field, as is the case for India, which until now has favoured the Russian defence industry for this type of medium- and long-term strategic cooperation.
This raises the question of whether New Delhi might consider moving towards France rather than the United States, in order to compensate for Russia's failings in recent months in many areas of defence industry, but also to maintain a neutral position by limiting its dependence on the United States, without turning towards China, with which there are many areas of tension.
17 July 2023
While the failure of the MRCA programme in 2014 was largely due to the obligation imposed on Dassault Aviation to collaborate with the state aircraft manufacturer HAL for the manufacture of 96 of the 114 Rafale B/C to join the Indian Air Force, The French aerospace group's decision to turn to the Indian industrial group Reliance to create the industrial joint venture to carry out the offsets linked to the acquisition of the 36 aircraft ordered by New Delhi in 2016 was roundly criticised by the Indian press and opposition, and was at the heart of the suspicions of corruption that were brought against the French aircraft manufacturer.
Although Dassault's choice of Reliance as a partner for its Indian manufacturing base has been cleared of these highly electoral accusations for several years now, it remains a handicap to the company's ability to move forward.
At a time when Emmanuel Macron and Narendra Modi announced, during the latter's visit to Paris for the 14 July festivities and in connection with a forthcoming order for 26 Rafale M and 3 Scorpene submarines for the Indian Navy, the intensification of Franco-Indian cooperation, including the future design of a mysterious 'air combat system', it was therefore necessary for Dassault to resolve this problem.
It seems that this will soon be the case. According to the **** website, which is often well-informed and free from the frequent excesses of the Indian press, Dassault Aviation has put an end to its joint venture with Reliance, and may instead move closer to the Indian industrial group Tata, so as to present a much smoother surface to any criticism from the Indian opposition, while avoiding a repeat of the HAL episode.
The Air Combat System mentioned by the French and Indian leaders could be based on the AMCA programme, which should enable the Indian Air Force to replace its Su-30MKIs over the next decade.
The first step will be to take over the industrial activity currently based in India, which produces components for Falcon and Rafale aircraft in the Mihan special economic zone in Nagpur, in the state of Maharashtra.
Above all, this future joint venture will enable Dassault to structure future cooperative ventures, whether for the future air combat system mentioned by the two leaders a few days ago, which could refer to either the Indian Air Force's AMCA programme or the Indian Navy's TEDBF, or to strengthen the French proposal around the Rafale F4/F5 for the MMRCA 2 programme.
Paradoxically, Tata is already involved in this competition with Lockheed-Martin, which is proposing the F-21, a version of the F-16 Block 70 adapted to the initial requirements of the Indian Air Force and renamed so as not to be hampered by the pre-existing co-production agreements concerning the F-16 signed with Greece and the Netherlands.
The fact that Dassault Aviation and Tata are collaborating suggests that the Rafale could now be the favourite in this competition, while the F-21 and the Gripen E/F, both lighter and single-engined, would now be out of the running. Faced with a significant reduction in the number of its squadrons, the Indian Air Force now prefers heavier aircraft with greater reach and carrying capacity.
Whether or not this is in anticipation of the MMRCA 2 programme, the merger of Dassault Aviation and Tata marks a first step in the reorganisation of France's defence industrial presence in India, and demonstrates that the commitments made by Emmanuel Macron and Narendra Modi on 14 July will be implemented in the relatively short term.
This represents a profound change in France's defence industrial doctrine. For the first time, France appears to be making a commitment to a non-European player in this field, as is the case for India, which until now has favoured the Russian defence industry for this type of medium- and long-term strategic cooperation.
This raises the question of whether New Delhi might consider moving towards France rather than the United States, in order to compensate for Russia's failings in recent months in many areas of defence industry, but also to maintain a neutral position by limiting its dependence on the United States, without turning towards China, with which there are many areas of tension.
Naval Group working on qualifying DRDO-developed Air Independent Propulsion system for installation on Scorpenes
Naval Group invests ₹100cr in 3 workshops for Scorpene submarines. MoU signed between India and France for 3 additional Scorpenes. DRDO-developed AIP system to enhance endurance of the submarines
You did not answer the question. Why did the french choose crony and incompetent. When there was so many options.
Its good that the website is banned here.
The initial choice was Tata. Then Mukesh successfully maneuvered to get RATL chosen instead. Then things floundered and Mukesh gave RATL to Anil. Then things picked up again.
Anyway, Dassault wanted to recruit young rookies fresh out of school so as to train them directly to their own standards so as to avoid incompetence issues such as HAL needing seventeen times more man-hours to build an aircraft. As for the cronyism, accusations of such would have happened regardless of which partner was chosen -- various NGOs financed by America went desperately seeking for anything, anything at all, that could torpedo the deal. They didn't find anything substantial; but they did repeat "rafale scam, rafale scam" long enough to convince some idiots.
DRDO to start testing fuel cell-based AIP for submarines early 2024
The cutting-edge Air Independent Propulsion (AIP) technology will be fitted in three Scorpene submarines that India will procure from France. Upon integration, India will become a member of an exclusive group of nations that have successfully developed indigenous fuel cell-based submarine AIP technology.
DRDO to start testing fuel cell-based AIP for submarines early 2024
The cutting-edge Air Independent Propulsion (AIP) technology will be fitted in three Scorpene submarines that India will procure from France. Upon integration, India will become a member of an exclusive group of nations that have successfully developed indigenous fuel cell-based submarine AIP...
newsable.asianetnews.com
It was not 17 times more.
I don't remember the exact figure, but in the 2 to 3 times more.
Contract for three more Scorpene submarines likely by end-2024; first delivery expected by 2031
Navy to get 3 new Scorpene-class submarines by 2024; 1st delivery in 2031. Procurement process to start shortly after DAC's Acceptance of Necessity. Submarines to come with DRDO-developed AIP system, higher indigenous content. Naval Group, MDL sign MoU for cooperation on 3 submarines. Navy has...
@marich01 DRDO AIP is still an if. Not a necessity to sign this contract.
It will never happen......just a gimmick to keep gullible online defence enthusiast community happy.Contract for three more Scorpene submarines likely by end-2024; first delivery expected by 2031
Navy to get 3 new Scorpene-class submarines by 2024; 1st delivery in 2031. Procurement process to start shortly after DAC's Acceptance of Necessity. Submarines to come with DRDO-developed AIP system, higher indigenous content. Naval Group, MDL sign MoU for cooperation on 3 submarines. Navy has...www.thehindu.com
@marich01 DRDO AIP is still a if. Not a necessity to sign this contract.
MOU is just that , a paper....believe it when u see it just like those additional Rafale
time will say.
according to me, more scorp' with AIP, or a
real next step being nuclear propulsion.
(pardon my french)
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The point is, Dassault *censored*ed up choosing partner. Do not put it on Indian government or HAL.