Kashmir : Counter Terror Operation Updates and Discussions

[BlackOpsIndia]

How can you even suggest that an APJ Abdul Kalam who rarely if ever offered namaz , never paid zakat or observed Ramzan or even made the Haj ( precisely the points that the article I've posted declares ) - all central tenets of Islam be even considered for such a post . Why , someone as devout as Abdus Salaam who observed all these rituals eventually had his gravestone defaced only coz he was an Ahmeddiya

What are you doing man! Forcibly inserting Dr. Kalam in Pakistan and deriving out conclusions as per your liking by mixing two unrelated things. 5 times Namaz is not a deal breaker in Islam or Pakistan and majority of them can't do it.

Alcohol is deal breaker but even those people are tolerated and respected in Pakistan, I don't know how you concluded that Abdul Salam is not honoured same will apply to Dr Kalam!

Not offering the occasional namaz and not offering it at all are two different things .

Now we are cooking facts too just to justify our arguments? Who said he didn't offered Namaz at all?

Its like Sakshi Maharaj declaring Modi lesser Hindu and you conclude all Hindu considered Modi non Hindu and he will be killed in Nepal, we are so good to let him live, exaggeration at every step, this is ridiculous.

A Google image search of Dr. Abdul Kalam offering Namaz would have helped you.

Please disclose this to your Muslim friends & acquaintances and check for yourself how many are aware of these facts

Disclose these cooked up facts? You think there is storage of such rumours in any community? I have grown with many of them I know how much they revered Dr Kalam, why don't you try this on any stranger on street, record their reaction and tell us.

Come out of these stereotypes you developed after reading from someone or other and meet real people. You will find how wrong few of your conclusions and facts are. Ask @safriz if he would have hated Dr. Kalam if he was Pakistani, you will get the answer.

 

[BlackOpsIndia]

It's Political Islam which has turned him away from us. Here's another example of Educated Youth from Kashmir - Government Employee:

https://twitter.com/x/status/993337205669138432

Yes, we should do that, we should hound any aggrieved party expressing their pain and loss in a volatile war zone, cuz somehow an English HoD after losing a brilliant colleague is our enemy number one. Pathetic.

By showing hatred to any Kashmiri in pain we are legitimizing a completely illegitimate proxy war by the likes of Hafiz Saeed. We are making it indigenous struggle which it is not, if we keep up hounding every Kashmiri we will be helping Hafiz and company in a way that he will be thankful to us forever.

Read about safety valve theory, we are closing that valve in a bid to be prove ourselves more "patriot". I have no doubt about your patriotism but don't let it get exploited by enemy behind the lines. This is exactly what they want, hatred to every established role model so that they too pick up arms and trust me when they do they won't be short of foot soldiers. It will be mission accomplished for Hafiz Saeed.

 

[Bali78]

Yes, we should do that, we should hound any aggrieved party expressing their pain and loss in a volatile war zone, cuz somehow an English HoD after losing a brilliant colleague is our enemy number one. Pathetic.

By showing hatred to any Kashmiri in pain we are legitimizing a completely illegitimate proxy war by the likes of Hafiz Saeed. We are making it indigenous struggle which it is not, if we keep up hounding every Kashmiri we will be helping Hafiz and company in a way that he will be thankful to us forever.

Read about safety valve theory, we are closing that valve in a bid to be prove ourselves more "patriot". I have no doubt about your patriotism but don't let it get exploited by enemy behind the lines. This is exactly what they want, hatred to every established role model so that they too pick up arms and trust me when they do they won't be short of foot soldiers. It will be mission accomplished for Hafiz Saeed.

Are you suggesting we embrace these idiots and somehow they will appreciate our efforts and have a change of heart??
This is exactly the thought process which Pakisthan has been exploiting so far. We Indians have been suffering from this fake sense of righteousness and paid hefty price for that over the years, but refused to learn from it.

How did the Punjab terrorism problem got solved?? It's plain old fashioned brute force method !! Just kill every damn terrorist and that's it. In the process many innocent died, but look at today's Punjab.
There is no hint of violence that was so prevalent during 80's and 90's.
The message should be plain and loud for every Kashmiri. You want to live in this country, then follow the law of the land, else enjoy 72 hoors in hell.

 

[BlackOpsIndia]

Are you suggesting we embrace these idiots and somehow they will appreciate our efforts and have a change of heart??
This is exactly the thought process which Pakisthan has been exploiting so far. We Indians have been suffering from this fake sense of righteousness and paid hefty price for that over the years, but refused to learn from it.

I am not suggesting anything like that. I am saying leave them alone, don't hound them when they are crying, it has less to do with morality but more with strategy. Don't make them feel victim.

There is a reason why we give back dead bodies of terrorists and don't kill terrorists when they attend funerals or terrorists families. It is less about morality but more about strategy. Don't prepare recruits for Hafiz Saeed. Kill terrorists, not Indians. Innocents will die, that's unavoidable but what is avoidable is preparing fertile ground for more recruits.

Edit:
See this:
Mother gives ‘gun salute’ to slain Hizbul Mujahideen leader in viral video – Indian Defence Research Wing

Apply pressure upto the point they fear you, don't keep pushing them to wall that they stop fearing you, that time you lose. This professor will have much more impact than that thug Wani.

 

[Arvind]

Really! That's a news to me, how did you arrive to that conclusion? So far I have not met a single Muslim that lacks respect for him. If there one or two people here and there you found they don't speak for whole Muslim community.

Do you mean Indian muslims?

 

[BlackOpsIndia]

Do you mean Indian muslims?

Yes.

 

[_Anonymous_]

In Kashmir Valley, another summer of death, violence and protests

 

[_Anonymous_]

Azadi not possible, you can’t fight us: Army Chief General Bipin Rawat to Kashmir youth

 

[BlackOpsIndia]

Some very ugly debate is going on on every Hindi news channel about cease fire proposal, feels like some of the anchors will directly mount T90 and free Kashmir from terrorism.

Feel sorry when retired military professionals engage in cheap debates with politicians, ugly.

Cease fire during Ramzan would have made sense only when the mosques were not used to spread radicalization and instigate terrorism. When you abuse freedom of religion you invite reasonable restrictions to protect integrity of state.

 

[BlackOpsIndia]

Centre changes tack in Kashmir Valley

Sensible.

 

[suryakiran]

Any Kashmiri youth, till the time he fires a bullet should not be executed or made to feel like a criminal. Lots of stupid decisions are taken between the age of 16 and 28.

 

[Ashutosh]

Centre changes tack in Kashmir Valley

Sensible.

The Next sensible thing to to is to target the puppet masters across the border. these youth are expendables to the PA and Non arrest killing will lead to more sympathy. The masters across LoC need to feel the heat. We get lowly tango's while the main hand that plays them is safe. we need to hurt the PA the militancy already is in lows. they can be treated as mere bandits their strings from across the border needs to be cut. more importantly the hand that pulls on those strings.

 

[Parul]

https://twitter.com/x/status/994925733414932481

 

[BlackOpsIndia]

J&K truce: With locals taking militancy out of ISI control, Pak may instigate attacks – Indian Defence Research Wing

@Bali78 @_Anonymous_ @Parul

This is exactly what I was talking about. There are three players in Kashmir:

Pakistan (ISI, LeT, PA, Hizb etc)​

Hurriyat​

India (Army, Intelligence, Politicians etc)​

All three want controlled chaos in Kashmir.

Pak to keep it boiling mostly to stick it to India and keep domestic audience distracted. Limited chaos is preferred because when it goes big Pak pays heavily and disproportionately.

Hurriyat benefits from both sides, plays both sides, keep violence going for Pakistan but also help Indian agencies when some rogue agency operative or idiot tries something very big. They distribute Pak money for stone pelting operations and combined with religious sentiments they have okay okay following to have some influence or clout.


India, well India prefer it to end but while it's not ending they want controlled chaos. Domination, fear in heart of terrorists that no safe zone exists now, your village, your family won't be able to protect you if you target India. They always ask to surender before encounter and even call family of terrorists to facilitate surrender. This fact is often missing from reporting and edited videos of encounter.


This game or whatever you call it is being played on Kashmiris from both side, it's a war economy in another terms.


What I wanted to tell you is this iron grip and ruthless approach is giving rise to 4th player in this game which is normal Kashmiri which doesn't have this constraint of strategic restraint, they don't know when to stop like other players do. This new player can mess up the valley badly and things will go out of hands of India, Pakistan and Hurriyat. This should be avoided and if you have observed there is some serious thought given to what I said by GoI and as a result a bit leniency.

We don't want any uprising by following wrong policy, we want to keep this illegitimate pak sponsored terrorism to be what it is. I hope you now understood that it is not about morality, or Hinduism but about country and why we must recalibrate our policies as per situation. Brute force won't win you Kashmir.

 

[_Anonymous_]

J&K truce: With locals taking militancy out of ISI control, Pak may instigate attacks – Indian Defence Research Wing

@Bali78 @_Anonymous_ @Parul

This is exactly what I was talking about. There are three players in Kashmir:

Pakistan (ISI, LeT, PA, Hizb etc)​

Hurriyat​

India (Army, Intelligence, Politicians etc)​

All three want controlled chaos in Kashmir.

Pak to keep it boiling mostly to stick it to India and keep domestic audience distracted. Limited chaos is preferred because when it goes big Pak pays heavily and disproportionately.

Hurriyat benefits from both sides, plays both sides, keep violence going for Pakistan but also help Indian agencies when some rogue agency operative or idiot tries something very big. They distribute Pak money for stone pelting operations and combined with religious sentiments they have okay okay following to have some influence or clout.


India, well India prefer it to end but while it's not ending they want controlled chaos. Domination, fear in heart of terrorists that no safe zone exists now, your village, your family won't be able to protect you if you target India. They always ask to surender before encounter and even call family of terrorists to facilitate surrender. This fact is often missing from reporting and edited videos of encounter.


This game or whatever you call it is being played on Kashmiris from both side, it's a war economy in another terms.


What I wanted to tell you is this iron grip and ruthless approach is giving rise to 4th player in this game which is normal Kashmiri which doesn't have this constraint of strategic restraint, they don't know when to stop like other players do. This new player can mess up the valley badly and things will go out of hands of India, Pakistan and Hurriyat. This should be avoided and if you have observed there is some serious thought given to what I said by GoI and as a result a bit leniency.

We don't want any uprising by following wrong policy, we want to keep this illegitimate pak sponsored terrorism to be what it is. I hope you now understood that it is not about morality, or Hinduism but about country and why we must recalibrate our policies as per situation. Brute force won't win you Kashmir.

The Indians are following a time and tested policy - that of a war of attrition. Something it successfully prosecuted in the NE. A few dozen local recruits to the terrorists every year is hardly going to make a difference. If we've survived the turbulence of the late 80's to the mid 90's when we were far far more vulnerable and the insurgency much more virulent why would the present situation have you so perturbed ? If the locals think they've got the wood on the Indian security agencies , they'd come to grief soon. Speaking holistically , it's another lost generation . But that's an acceptable tragedy in our calculations.

 

[_Anonymous_]

J&K truce: With locals taking militancy out of ISI control, Pak may instigate attacks – Indian Defence Research Wing

@Bali78 @_Anonymous_ @Parul

This is exactly what I was talking about. There are three players in Kashmir:

Pakistan (ISI, LeT, PA, Hizb etc)​

Hurriyat​

India (Army, Intelligence, Politicians etc)​

All three want controlled chaos in Kashmir.

Pak to keep it boiling mostly to stick it to India and keep domestic audience distracted. Limited chaos is preferred because when it goes big Pak pays heavily and disproportionately.

Hurriyat benefits from both sides, plays both sides, keep violence going for Pakistan but also help Indian agencies when some rogue agency operative or idiot tries something very big. They distribute Pak money for stone pelting operations and combined with religious sentiments they have okay okay following to have some influence or clout.


India, well India prefer it to end but while it's not ending they want controlled chaos. Domination, fear in heart of terrorists that no safe zone exists now, your village, your family won't be able to protect you if you target India. They always ask to surender before encounter and even call family of terrorists to facilitate surrender. This fact is often missing from reporting and edited videos of encounter.


This game or whatever you call it is being played on Kashmiris from both side, it's a war economy in another terms.


What I wanted to tell you is this iron grip and ruthless approach is giving rise to 4th player in this game which is normal Kashmiri which doesn't have this constraint of strategic restraint, they don't know when to stop like other players do. This new player can mess up the valley badly and things will go out of hands of India, Pakistan and Hurriyat. This should be avoided and if you have observed there is some serious thought given to what I said by GoI and as a result a bit leniency.

We don't want any uprising by following wrong policy, we want to keep this illegitimate pak sponsored terrorism to be what it is. I hope you now understood that it is not about morality, or Hinduism but about country and why we must recalibrate our policies as per situation. Brute force won't win you Kashmir.

Govt’s Kashmir Ceasefire Is Audacious, Courageous... And Ill-Fated | Indian Defence News

 

[BlackOpsIndia]

The Indians are following a time and tested policy - that of a war of attrition. Something it successfully prosecuted in the NE. A few dozen local recruits to the terrorists every year is hardly going to make a difference. If we've survived the turbulence of the late 80's to the mid 90's when we were far far more vulnerable and the insurgency much more virulent why would the present situation have you so perturbed ? If the locals think they've got the wood on the Indian security agencies , they'd come to grief soon. Speaking holistically , it's another lost generation . But that's an acceptable tragedy in our calculations.

Sadly you missed the point, maybe this from ORF can tell you little more.

Terrorism in Kashmir gaining cult status? – Indian Defence Research Wing

What is good for NE may not necessarily be good for Kashmir. Otherwise if might is the only thing that make you win how come little taliban still survives after mightiest army of world attack them some 17 years ago.

Once you consider them human and not numbers your calculations will change. Statistics is not the alternative to thinking, assessing and analyzing.

 

[_Anonymous_]

Sadly you missed the point, maybe this from ORF can tell you little more.

Terrorism in Kashmir gaining cult status? – Indian Defence Research Wing

What is good for NE may not necessarily be good for Kashmir. Otherwise if might is the only thing that make you win how come little taliban still survives after mightiest army of world attack them some 17 years ago.

Once you consider them human and not numbers your calculations will change. Statistics is not the alternative to thinking, assessing and analyzing.

You seem to be labouring under the impression that we still have something to salvage there . I'm of the opinion that we are past that stage . Our turning a blind eye to the Islamist movements in the valley as a counter to the Hurriyat have to be read in conjunction with the Praveen Swami article I've quoted where it's amply clear that the previous regime bought peace by allowing these Islamist tanzeems a free hand in the rural areas of S.Kashmir so that they keep off spectacular attacks in the city and this maintain peace , was bound to have a fallout at some time in the future. That's what's happening now . As I remarked this is a battle of attrition. Such movements will either be put down by long drawn out battles of attrition lasting generations or we follow the Russian model in Chechnya or the Chinese model in Tibet . There are no half measures here.

 

[Bali78]

Sadly you missed the point, maybe this from ORF can tell you little more.

Terrorism in Kashmir gaining cult status? – Indian Defence Research Wing

What is good for NE may not necessarily be good for Kashmir. Otherwise if might is the only thing that make you win how come little taliban still survives after mightiest army of world attack them some 17 years ago.

Once you consider them human and not numbers your calculations will change. Statistics is not the alternative to thinking, assessing and analyzing.

The day you start treating them as humans, you are in deep trouble. No matter how well you treat them, they will use your leniency to regroup and attack. These idiots have been brainwashed for a whole generation and they just don't understand what is really good or bad for them. I completely agree with @_Anonymous_ . The war of attrition is the best way to deal with these people.
Do you think Kashmiris are the only people who hate India? If you visit old city area of Hyderabad, you will be shocked to know how much they India. AIMIM and it's followers still have not accepted the outcome of "Operation POLO". But they will not revolt like Kashmiris, because they know they have a lot to loose and they have no chance of winning against the state of India. The same message needs to be passed on to Kashmiris, who still fancy some chances of Independence!!
Long back (during 90s), my Hindu Kashmiri friends told me that Army also plays dirty game in valley. They never target low ranked militants. They wait till the reward on them goes high and then kill them. In a way they also promoted militancy in order to make profit out of it. Few years later, I heard a different version of the same story from the soldiers who served in the valley. Apparently Army precisely knows where to find these militants, but doesn't kill them till the political masters approve. This is proven by the recent phenomenon when Army could target most top militants within a short period of time.

Basically the ground reality is far more complicated/different from what we read in main stream media. I personally feel the one sided ceasefire is a very very stupid idea. They are going to regroup and hit back very soon!!

 

[BlackOpsIndia]

You seem to be labouring under the impression that we still have something to salvage there . I'm of the opinion that we are past that stage

Really! Are we past that stage? So why are we there? I think since we already past that stage the govt offices must be closed and air strikes must happen right? Why are we not doing that already? Why are there govt institutions and why they vote for Indian elections in large numbers?

In different words you said that we have nobody there so we are literally occupiers. Also Kashmiri must be very stupid people that they still give tax to Indian govt even when they can never be Indian.

Don't answer that. Let's see how we win war of attrition. Back in time there was a person I don't know where but he seems to have been obsessed with war of attrition, for him every solution attrition, I wonder you were him or inspired by him. Anyway, peace.

The day you start treating them as humans, you are in deep trouble.

Sure.


What a waste of effort this conversation turn out to be, regrettable.