LCA Tejas Mk1 & Mk1A - News and discussions
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Firstly, Astra uses own seeker, Russian seeker already replaced by our own.
The users, IAF, are very much impressed by Astra performance and very adamant about acquiring the same who are always import-happy!
Just to mention that,IAF has inventory of Derby, MICA, R-77 & R-27. If they still going for Astra, it is really worth it.
2028 -2020 = 8 years.
8 years - 3 years for long lead time supply = 5 years.
5 years to built 83 planes = 17 per year. Not so easy. HAL is not world wide known to be on time, on quality and on budget.
Hopefully HAL gets this right. Coz we don't have the resources to buy a foreign alternative to this now.
There is more than 80% commonality with LCA Mk1 & LCA Mk1A. We are still producing LCA MK1. Lots of material and other stuff already privatized and HAL already started procuring the same in anticipation of order.
Not really.
- since 2 years the Dassault assembly lign produce 22 jets/year, and there is the possibility to improve that to 33.
- The Rafale is made industrialy for years. 22/year is a proven reality. What is the record of HAL about Tejas? 8 or 10/year? are they all made the same manner? 17/year is a real challenge for such an elephant like HAL.
Isn't that number after getting an export order? It was barely 12 per year before that.
You are comparing LCA which is just entering full FOC (Thats Rafale F2) production with 200+ build rafale. That level of self-obsession you guys bring in is admirable.
HAL has been making 12/year Su-30 MKI from scratch for like 10-15 years. That's a heavy fighter fourth-gen fighter, Which Dassault never made. Rafale was a europian overpriced white elephant with no orders until five years ago. So
Yeah. The unit cost is below $45M.
HAL has the capacity to improve production to 27/year. But they don't have the orders to justify such an increase.
According to HAL, they need 40-60 more jets in order to increase production to more than 24/year, which can happen with follow-on orders and exports.
Current production capacity is 19/year, but again, not enough orders to fully utilise it.
- export or no export, isn't important. Dassault has the flexibility to produce from 11 to 33 birds/year, always on shedule (what about HAL ?).Isn't that number after getting an export order? It was barely 12 per year before that.
You are comparing LCA which is just entering full FOC (Thats Rafale F2) production with 200+ build rafale. That level of self-obsession you guys bring in is admirable.
HAL has been making 12/year Su-30 MKI from scratch for like 10-15 years. That's a heavy fighter fourth-gen fighter, Which Dassault never made. Rafale was a europian overpriced white elephant with no orders until five years ago. So
- I have never heard of a slippery in shedule since the end of the preserial F1 models. Just a fact. Sorry if it's unbelivable for you (HAL gave you bad habits
)- A heavy fighter : There was the Mirage IV. Studying a smaller high tech object is always more complicated in all fields (rockets, jets, subs, tanks, computers, phones...). The production phase is nearly the same, slightly more difficult for small one.
- Rafale over priced? you are reading too many LM propaganda. The bird was offered to india at 95€million each. So maybe 15% costier than a SH18, but able to carry a heavier load, able to make 5 missions when all the others can only do 3, and free of use (ask UAE and Egypt about the use of their F16...).
- 5 years without orders? thank you uncle Sam, who was afraid about this bird since Clinton (Clinton ordered to its services to "kill the rafale". The F35 can be seen as a Rafale killer initiative).
PS 1 : As for now I will be watching the export backlog of Tejas
PS 2 : Yes, I'm a proud french, as you are a proud Indian.
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Isn't that number after getting an export order? It was barely 12 per year before that.
You are comparing LCA which is just entering full FOC (Thats Rafale F2) production with 200+ build rafale. That level of self-obsession you guys bring in is admirable.
HAL has been making 12/year Su-30 MKI from scratch for like 10-15 years. That's a heavy fighter fourth-gen fighter, Which Dassault never made. Rafale was a europian overpriced white elephant with no orders until five years ago. So
Efficacy of a defence platform should not be gaged from its sales but that's just my own opinion.
- Ok no exports. In last 30 years HAL produced 700 + helicopter, 400+ fighters, 200+ trainers,100+ transport aircraft, 1000+ advanced aero engines, Avionics etc.- export or no export, isn't important. Dassault has the flexibility to produce from 11 to 33 birds/year, always on shedule (what about HAL ?).
- I have never heard of a slippery in shedule since the end of the preserial F1 models. Just a fact. Sorry if it's unbelivable for you (HAL gave you bad habits
- A heavy fighter : There was the Mirage IV. Studying a smaller high tech object is always more complicated in all fields (rockets, jets, subs, tanks, computers, phones...). The production phase is nearly the same, slightly more difficult for small one.
- Rafale over priced? you are reading too many LM propaganda. The bird was offered to india at 95€million each. So maybe 15% costier than a SH18, but able to carry a heavier load, able to make 5 missions when all the others can only do 3, and free of use (ask UAE and Egypt about the use of their F16...).
- 5 years without orders? thank you uncle Sam, who was afraid about this bird since Clinton (Clinton ordered to its services to "kill the rafale". The F35 can be seen as a Rafale killer initiative).
PS 1 : As for now I will be watching the export backlog of Tejas
PS 2 : Yes, I'm a proud french, as you are a proud Indian.
- Dassault just designs one fighter in 30 years and few business jets. So a different kind of company.
- HAL sustained 12/year MKI with all these other orders. So big deal that Dassualt 'sustained' 11 per year!
- Never delays -> Falcon 5X delayed once again at Dassault Aviation
- Mirage IV is not a fourth-gen fighter
Smaller is more difficult so LCA should be more?- Yes rafale is very overpriced when you can get F-35A at $78 million.
- Entered service in 2004 so ten years without orders. Still the lowest of the bunch?
Dassualt is taking 5 years just to modify rafale to ISE standard. Here we expect HAL to make similar upgrades in 3 years. And HAL/DRDO overpromises everything and underdelivers.
Remember that when you take a dump on everything Indian.
What do you expect for an aesa radar, internal EW equipped, sensor fusion equipped, reliable American engine equipped, proper 4.5gen fighter to cost?
Also included in that cost is development cost, manufacturing facility cost of HAL, private vendors, etc.
And most of that money is pulled back in to the local economy. So no worry...☺☺
And remember it's not a Chinese JUNK painted green.....
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no need to get salty , lets be humble we all know the incompetence of DPSUs and govt in india , the whole system is rotten.
Mirage IV is not a fourth-gen fighter
He's referring to the Mirage 4000.
Rafale and F-35 are likely to be similarly priced for an export order. Especially when a country asks for offsets and ToT, which results in price increase of every component used. With ISE, like the ones on the Israeli F-35I, the jet will likely cost even more than the Rafale does. But it's difficult to say right now.
Logically, the F-35 is a bigger, heavier jet but has single engine, while Rafale is smaller, lighter and has two engines, with similar capabilities and avionics, so the price point should be similar.
That junk is in active duty since 2009 and will be 200+ in numbers before this Teja think enters active duty.What do you expect for an aesa radar, internal EW equipped, sensor fusion equipped, reliable American engine equipped, proper 4.5gen fighter to cost?
Also included in that cost is development cost, manufacturing facility cost of HAL, private vendors, etc.
And most of that money is pulled back in to the local economy. So no worry...☺☺
And remember it's not a Chinese JUNK painted green.....
P
And 4.5 generation only? Not 5th generation?
You are still forced to test Raad from Mirage relics. That pretty much sums up JF17 capabilities.
