Thats what i am telling, these people makes us to beleive stupid thing by overriding our brain and we still using that rust bucket to defend our sky.
Flying & Fighting in the MiG-21: Interview with Group Captain MJA Vinod
Despite first flying over sixty years, the pugnacious MiG-21 remains in frontline service in the Indian Air Force. Fast, agile and brutally simple – the elderly Cold War fighter jet is still …www.google.com
LCA Tejas Mk1 & Mk1A - News and discussions
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Do you even know that Mig21 bison upgrades are much more potent than JF-17 bunders...
Gosh they even brought down the mighty F16 much to the embarrassment of Lockheed Martin....
It's not that simple though.
When the Bison was upgraded, it was a brilliant aircraft. The PAF had no answer to it. And this advantage lasted all the way until 2012-2015, when PAF started receiving upgraded F-16s. The Mig-21's configuration was superior to the JF-17 Block 1 as well, mainly due to its Indo-Israeli EW suite, and of course the HMDS+R-73 combo. Although the radar was slightly less capable, it was still a mature product while the JF-17's radar was Chinese junk at the time, plus the aircraft itself was entirely immature and was inducted in a hurry.
Nevertheless 2015 was the expiration date of the Bison. In order to continue to maintain a significant advantage over the PAF, we should have started mass replacement of the Mig-21 with LCA from 2015 onwards, and completed it by now. This was about the time all their F-16s were upgraded and available, and they had started receiving JF-17 Block 2s. And the Mig-21's avionics had become antiquated by then. Although the Mig-21 retained an edge over both aircraft due to the HMDS+R-73 combo, which was demonstrated successfully post Balakot, the Mig-21's battlefield presence had started diminishing since 2015. Luckily, the PAF couldn't find their own equivalent HMDS+HOBS combo, if they had then the Bison would have become completely obsolete. Simply due to luck, the Bison will still retain some advantage until the JF-17 Block 3s are fully inducted.
PAF will get 12 jets a year until the end of 2024. So they will be able to raise a full squadron by early 2022 and have it fully operational by end 2022. Specifically concerning the Mig-21's role, by 2023 we willl only have the LCA Mk1 FOC to counter the new squadron and the Mig-21 will have become officially obsolete. And in order to compensate for the role of 100+ Mig-21s, we will need to bring in our Mirage 2000s, which is not a good idea. So 2024 and 2025 will be a pretty bad time for the IAF concerning the Mig-21's role replacement until the Mk1As start coming in.
So till 2024 we can add more Su 30s , LCA MK 1-- 40 of them , and More MiG 29s are also coming in , PKS said 50 can be bought , officially 21 are being ordered
36 Rafales will also be fully operational by 2024
The key word here is "role" replacement. Su-30, Mig-29 and Rafale cannot replace the Mig-21 by role. Only LCA, F-16, Gripen, Mirage 2000, F/A-50, J-10 and JF-17 can.
The issue with LCA Mk1 is both versions sit between the JF-17 Block 2 and Block 3. Upgrading the IOC to FOC standards will take time as well, plus the squadron is needed in Sulur. So only the FOC is available, and there will be 16, not 20, enough for just 1 base. Similarly, it's unlikely for the IAF to afford to give away more than 1 squadron for this role, even that's too much.
So 2 squadrons with detachments will be enough only to deal with something like the post Balakot skirmish, not a war. For war with Pakistan, we will need at least of 4-5 LCA squadrons. It will take us 3 years to get to the minimum necessary.
Let's not forget that without the LCAs, it will be very difficult to use the Jaguars in the strike role. Su-30, Mig-29, Rafale and M2000 are needed for their own missions, and with the exception of the Su-30, all other aircraft numbers are in a deficit.
We need a lot of single engine jets. I am even a tad disappointed by the number (170) that is going around as the number for Tejas Mk2. It was 201 or so earlier. China may do what it is doing to Japan with daily intrusions into our airspace and we can't scramble our twin engine jets. If I were a betting man, I would bet for more Mk1A's (2-3 more squadrons) or a Stealth single engine fighter aka Mk3 (pipe dream). HAL can't do it alone and they will need a partner sooner than later.
Interesting, why do we need a lot of single-engine jets? Also why wouldn't we be able to scramble twin engine jets ?
The overall requirement for LCA is 18 squadrons. But let's get to six Mk2 squadrons first.
Its the operational cost. Single engine jets are less expensive to maintain compared to twin engine jets.
I agree, and completely understand where you are coming from.
for sake of argument, what would you take - 5 squadrons of F16 or 5 squadrons of F15 SE? From Indian subcontinental context Would you take the range advantage of F15, payload, and twin-engine redundancy over the ocean, or would you take the affordability, agility, and operational costs of f16?
Every purchase is different and it depends on the need / affordability. I won't take either of them for the reasons listed because those are their selling points. I will take F15 for couple of other reasons. It is something different from all the fighters we have in this region (especially not with our western and north / eastern neighbors) and for its avionics. For me F15 SE represents a bomb truck which we don't have. But I won't take F16 for the reason that it is with Pakistan and that it is at the end of its development cycle.
I agree, and completely understand where you are coming from.
for sake of argument, what would you take - 5 squadrons of F16 or 5 squadrons of F15 SE? From Indian subcontinental context Would you take the range advantage of F15, payload, and twin-engine redundancy over the ocean, or would you take the affordability, agility, and operational costs of f16?
I strongly believe that it is now or never for Indian aerospace industry. There is no silver bullet and no easy fixes. We have to give our scientists and manufacturers like HAL more time. It is like asking for a healthy baby to be born in 3 months. Every country has gone through the growing pains and we are no exception. Are there issues beyond the learning curve? Hell yes. HAL and DRDO can always do better. I am optimistic that we will see this through and become self reliant.
Great answer,
Lets try it different way, If you had an option of HAL ORCA or the HAL MWF, which system would make more sense for the IAF to deploy in large numbers.
Since it is becoming something like a quiz, I will give you two answers. One an emotional one which makes a lot of sense and the other one to be an expert (which I am not) in the topic. Emotional one first.
Even when we hang a convict (capital punishment) we ask him / her their last wish but we have seldom given our men and women who are willing to die for a cause called Nation, that many of us still question. That said, IAF wants MWF (IAF Chief has given its design / concept a big Thumbs Up) and I have no business to question their professional decision.
But if I were to analyze the benefits of a common platform (of course with modification to the landing gear and associated parts around the belly) and the financial benefits of manufacturing more, bringing the cost down. I will try to convince IAF to consider ORCA in conjunction with TEDBF but at the same time, I will also consider if Indian Navy's need can be satisfied quickly by just going with TEDBF and not muddy the water with ORCA. Another thought is if HAL were to stitch a joint venture with a private sector major for AMCA, I will use the opportunity to build the ORCA along with the AMCA.
Cabinet panel to take call on upgraded Tejas
Ending the long wait on ordering an improved version of the Light Combat Aircraft Tejas, the Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS) is expected to take a formal call on the Rs 38,800 crore ($5.1 billion) project for making 83 such jets over the next six-seven years.The move comes almost 10 months after the Defence Acquisition Council in March 2020 announced “the procurement of 83 more advanced Mark 1A version of the aircraft (Tejas)”. The decision of the DAC will need to be ratified by the CCS, which is headed by PM Narendra Modi. The CCS is expected to take up the matter next week, sources said.
The jet will have some 43 improvements over the initial version and two of limited series production jets are conducting trials. Among the other improvements, the major improvements are to enhance operational capability.
These include easier maintenance, active electronically scanned array radar, electronic warfare suite and beyond-visual range missile capabilities, that will include the Indian made air-to-air missile Aastra Mark1. It will also have the ability to carry missiles for long range.
The move, once okayed, will take the number of Tejas jets on order to 123 jets —in three variants, all powered by a general electric engine. So far 20 have been made in what is called the initial operational clearance version. Another 20 are being made in what is called the final operational clearance version. The remaining 83 will be called the Tejas Mark 1A.
The Aeronautical Development Agency under the DRDO has designed the plane while Hindustan Aeronautics Limited is the manufacturer.
Cabinet panel to take call on upgraded Tejas
Ajay BanerjeeTribune News ServiceNew Delhi, January 9
LCA Mk1A and MK2 will take time
More Rafales will also take time and money
So the cheapest option is buy more MiG 29s
More Rafales will also take time and money
So the cheapest option is buy more MiG 29s
From whatever little i've read, single engine jets have better response time than dual engine jets. Also, since the role being talked about is interception, those mere seconds saved are extremely precious. Apart from the monetary angle, its the role. For point defense role, a simple, small, single engine jet with a good radar, networking capability and a long range BVR will almost always be a better option than an uber expensive 4.5+/5 gen dual engine jet. With the advent of loyal wingman type concepts, again things are changing.
We don't need more Mig-29s than the 21 ordered. 4 squadrons across 2 bases will be more than enough, especially when 3 of those 4 will not have a long enough life. We had a deficit before.
As per your own assertion , we have a difficult situation till 2025
So what else is a solution
A good solution maybe to replace Mig-29K's of the Indian Navy with F/A - 18's and hand over the Migs to the IAF (if both parties agree). The Migs may have a 15-20 years of residual life and IAF will start getting them in the next 2-3 years once we start receiving the F/A - 18. A pipe dream at best but we can satisfy both of them.