LCA Tejas Mk1 & Mk1A - News and discussions

Rajput Lion said:
Awesome, awesome news mate(y). You've become the harbinger of good news here:)

Tejas MK1A in proper numbers is the remedy to cure our fighter shortage. It's an awesome fighter against popular perception. We need over 250 of these and over 200 MK2. Looks like finally IAF has warmed up to Tejas. Great news for future of Indian military aviation.:love:
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Man, you should try stand up comedy. :LOL:
 
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Hope the additional orders are mk1B with
1. Mk2 Aesa - already rumoured
2. Mk2 cockpit
3. Wingtip rails for EW
 
Why would you want another mk1B? it would take another 2 years to test flight everything. Mk1a is essentially same Mk1 with modular building method to cut down man hour needed, better servicing, good avionics upgrades etc. Anything else would be just smaller batch upgrade as boundary conditions allow.
More chance of naval LCA getting some small number order on top of extra mk1a, like about 20-25 more to increase use of the production line. Then maybe switch to Mk2?
 
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marich01 said:
Why would you want another mk1B? it would take another 2 years to test flight everything. Mk1a is essentially same Mk1 with modular building method to cut down man hour needed, better servicing, good avionics upgrades etc. Anything else would be just smaller batch upgrade as boundary conditions allow.
More chance of naval LCA getting some small number order on top of extra mk1a, like about 20-25 more to increase use of the production line. Then maybe switch to Mk2?
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These all are studied already in Mk2
Mk1A still has many compromises and over engineering.. We can futher optimize it / upgrade it . And adopt it for upgradation of Mk1.
 
Sathya said:
Hope the additional orders are mk1B with
1. Mk2 Aesa - already rumoured
2. Mk2 cockpit
3. Wingtip rails for EW
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What they should do for mk 1b should be this.
>Replace mk1a wings with mk2 wings on original mk1 frame. So basically increase in hardpoints from 8-10
>Replace ge-404 with 414
>GaN radar superior to apg-84 and their contemporaries. Something like uttam mk1b with EA modes
>Irst is optional if continue with podded irst that is also fine
>American weapons integration. So an MoU with Raytheon is necessary.
 
Lolwa said:
What they should do for mk 1b should be this.
>Replace mk1a wings with mk2 wings on original mk1 frame. So basically increase in hardpoints from 8-10
>Replace ge-404 with 414
>GaN radar superior to apg-84 and their contemporaries. Something like uttam mk1b with EA modes
>Irst is optional if continue with podded irst that is also fine
>American weapons integration. So an MoU with Raytheon is necessary.
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I am not sure, whether u r being serious or sarcastic..

I thought I myself stretched a bit wrt to wingtip rails.

Anyways some optimization will be there.

Current 73 order, they ll take minimum 4 years.
 
Sathya said:
I am not sure, whether u r being serious or sarcastic..

I thought I myself stretched a bit wrt to wingtip rails.

Anyways some optimization will be there.

Current 73 order, they ll take minimum 4 years.
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If we increase the production to 25 per year, then it will take around 3 years to deliver 73 planes. Until MK2 is ready to roll out of production line around 2028, we can squeeze in extra 50 MK1As by then.

I think this news of extra production line for MK1A is very encouraging for desi aviation fans.
 
Rajput Lion said:
If we increase the production to 25 per year, then it will take around 3 years to deliver 73 planes. Until MK2 is ready to roll out of production line around 2028, we can squeeze in extra 50 MK1As by then.

I think this news of extra production line for MK1A is very encouraging for desi aviation fans.
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First year only 4 samples are planned I think.
 
Rajput Lion said:
If we increase the production to 25 per year, then it will take around 3 years to deliver 73 planes. Until MK2 is ready to roll out of production line around 2028, we can squeeze in extra 50 MK1As by then.

I think this news of extra production line for MK1A is very encouraging for desi aviation fans.
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3 is not enough. We need at minimum 4 production lines. And 8 production lines if we want to actually fight a 2.5 front war.
 
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Lolwa said:
3 is not enough. We need at minimum 4 production lines. And 8 production lines if we want to actually fight a 2.5 front war.
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If enough orders are placed for a minimum of 5 years, then long lead items which are outsourced can be made quicker by that vendor. (It just makes fixed costs spread over more units and larger period of time...)

The 2nd line for Tejas actually can be upscaled to double it's capacity. So in theory with enough orders, HAL in Bengaluru alone can roll out 2 Aircrafts a month.

Nasik is a big facility too. It had the capacity of 18 flankers a year , sadly it was never used. We will have to see how this new transition to Tejas final assembly line goes.
The more important things people should look at are the rate of deliveries of 18 twin seaters , status of Canon certification and roll out of 1st Mk1A.

Once these things are actually done, an additional order for Mk1A makes more sense.
 
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Ankit Kumar said:
If enough orders are placed for a minimum of 5 years, then long lead items which are outsourced can be made quicker by that vendor. (It just makes fixed costs spread over more units and larger period of time...)

The 2nd line for Tejas actually can be upscaled to double it's capacity. So in theory with enough orders, HAL in Bengaluru alone can roll out 2 Aircrafts a month.

Nasik is a big facility too. It had the capacity of 18 flankers a year , sadly it was never used. We will have to see how this new transition to Tejas final assembly line goes.
The more important things people should look at are the rate of deliveries of 18 twin seaters , status of Canon certification and roll out of 1st Mk1A.

Once these things are actually done, an additional order for Mk1A makes more sense.
Click to expand...
If they expand the production lines we could finally scale down the cost per fighter and finally tejas could export success. A 40 million $ a piece tejas all costs including weapons would make it a great deal for lot of third world air force. The second world market is entirely captured by the Americans except for smaller pariahs like Armenia, Mongolia, Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzstan. Maybe some European country but highly doubtful.
 
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Lolwa said:
If they expand the production lines we could finally scale down the cost per fighter and finally tejas could export success. A 40 million $ a piece tejas all costs including weapons would make it a great deal for lot of third world air force. The second world market is entirely captured by the Americans except for smaller pariahs like Armenia, Mongolia, Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzstan. Maybe some European country but highly doubtful.
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If they expand production lines the costs shoot up. Consider the amount of personnel they'd have to employ for starters . This can only be offset by an ever increasing order book.

While news reports seem to indicate upto 25 nos rolling out of HAL per annum from 2025 , I've my doubts unless there's an unwritten commitment from IAF to increase the order by another 50-60 nos with the completion time being the same i.e -2029 .
 
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_Anonymous_ said:
If they expand production lines the costs shoot up. Consider the amount of personnel they'd have to employ for starters . This can only be offset by an ever increasing order book.

While news reports seem to indicate upto 25 nos rolling out of HAL per annum from 2025 , I've my doubts unless there's an unwritten commitment from IAF to increase the order by another 50-60 nos with the completion time being the same i.e -2029 .
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I'm talking about per unit cost of tejas. Nothing else. The f-35 became a sub80mil$ fighter but the order book went around 2500 fighters. If we expand the order book to 250+. We could realistically make tejas mk1a a sub 40 million$ fighter.
 
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Lolwa said:
If they expand the production lines we could finally scale down the cost per fighter and finally tejas could export success. A 40 million $ a piece tejas all costs including weapons would make it a great deal for lot of third world air force. The second world market is entirely captured by the Americans except for smaller pariahs like Armenia, Mongolia, Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzstan. Maybe some European country but highly doubtful.
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Consider this. Any smaller Airforce will actually go for LIFT platform. And that will beat LCA in operational costs. And any proper airforce will want a better fighter like Rafale/Eurofighter.

Don't think about exports. Swedes built 200+ Gripens for themselves when no one was buying it from them.

Even the facilities in Bengaluru are more than enough. 19 airframes a year is really good.

The only possible export for LCA opens if Indian Navy buys Naval LCA for carrier based training. That will open up the US Navy market to replace Hawks.

There are a lot of trainers out there, but how many are carrier capable?
 
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_Anonymous_ said:
If they expand production lines the costs shoot up. Consider the amount of personnel they'd have to employ for starters . This can only be offset by an ever increasing order book.

While news reports seem to indicate upto 25 nos rolling out of HAL per annum from 2025 , I've my doubts unless there's an unwritten commitment from IAF to increase the order by another 50-60 nos with the completion time being the same i.e -2029 .
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True.

Further let's utilise the present capability first

Let's see if in 2023-24 FY HAL can deliver all 18 trainers or not? Given that the facilities can roll out 19 units....
 
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