Its a global concern. America bad bad socialist educated indian defence watchers think its an american conspiracy.
LCA Tejas Mk1 & Mk1A - News and discussions
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Its a global concern. America bad bad socialist educated indian defence watchers think its an american conspiracy.
Also - infinite delays & inefficiencies of HAL & other Indian babus are forgiven.
It's some weird nationalism and acceptance of incompetence.
You won't see the same level of complaints if its Russian stuff is delayed. I mean, nothing was ever delivered on time.
Egyptian delegation visited HAL facilities, checked out Dhruv and Tejas Mk1A
theprint.in
Egypt out military shopping, eyes Tejas and Dhruv as high-level delegation visits HAL
Delegation visited Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd’s facilities this week, days after its maiden international air show. It is rumoured the African country is also going in for Chinese J-10s.
theprint.in
Why do we need 200 more engines? If Mk1A ends with 97 more, then we need 120.
In any case, HAL can place an order only after the MoD gives the go-ahead.
Because as a company GE will not deliver everything at once. An order size of 200 will ensure enough engines both for HAL and for GE to establish with fairly certain resources the overall supply chain.
For 97 airframes, for any possible Navy orders , for any possible exports, for any re-engineing of first 40. 200 or 180 whatever you might like.
Order that number to support the 220 fleet at once.
Not necessarily.
GE is working to meet the timeline for US demand for F404, not India's or SoKo's. So large contracts will go out when the Pentagon and US DoD start clearing their new vendors and production lines. So limited penalties for late deliveries gives way to long term savings with larger contracts. The overall potential demand for new F404s is up to 4000 over the next 20 years without counting drones. So why will they give a frig about paying a very tiny penalty for India's very small order in the first year?
They will make up for it with higher than promised deliveries in the coming years anyway.
The IAF has instructed HAL to keep the LCA line going without delays.
The old Mk1s have the same engine, they don't need replacement for life of the jet. Hell, the currently cleared life of the aircraft is less than that of the engine. And the engine can also be MLU'd.
Navy orders are a longshot, they at best want to operate 4-6 jets alongside the Rafale/TEDBF on carriers. This could go the same way as Dhruv.
Now, if both show interest in SPORT, that could change things, although I won't be surprised if they end up importing this requirement, or at least aiming for it via an international competition.
GE was to commence with delivering 2 TFs this September onwards with a total of 8 nos by Mar next year . That's already been rescheduled to November from September.
The maximum numbers GE's committed to delivering remains 16 nos as per the damn Contract.
At this point I really don't know or understand what's RST talking about & I suspect , as usual , neither does RST. Quite obviously , it's 8 pm all day long . While that's only the minor bad news of the day , the major bad news is that RST won't be starting off his new blog replacing OST .
Sigh !
The maximum numbers GE's committed to delivering remains 16 nos as per the damn Contract.
At this point I really don't know or understand what's RST talking about & I suspect , as usual , neither does RST. Quite obviously , it's 8 pm all day long . While that's only the minor bad news of the day , the major bad news is that RST won't be starting off his new blog replacing OST .
Sigh !
when Mk1 orders were placed, discussion was going on about orders for GE 404 for mk1A..
it was said F404 production was going to end.., we need to place orders ...
But It got delayed many years after that.. 4-5 yrs I think before we placed orders ..
it was said that production was restarted for our orders..
it was said F404 production was going to end.., we need to place orders ...
But It got delayed many years after that.. 4-5 yrs I think before we placed orders ..
it was said that production was restarted for our orders..
In the meanwhile, we should tap the South Korean production line to meet our immediate requirements, imo. It won't be the IN-20 version of course, but it should see us through for the time being.
If and when we close a license production deal for F-404, the SoKo engines could simply be upgraded to IN-20 spec.
If and when we close a license production deal for F-404, the SoKo engines could simply be upgraded to IN-20 spec.
Why would SoKo give us engines? Even they are facing shortages. And unlike HAL, their orders are exports. Even if they do agree, those engines are underpowered.
As per contract, GE is to deliver 99 engines between FY24 and FY29. But FY24 was a very small order of possibly just 3-4 engines. The remaining were to be delivered between FY25-29 at 20/year, 5 years. At 16/year, it would take 6 years instead of 5, that would take us to 2030. Common sense.
The contract from FY26 is 16 per year for LCA and 20 per year for the engine.
GE seem to be planning to deliver 24 to make up for delays, which was always on the cards. They had said earlier tha production will be ramped up for delivery in FY26.
Assuming 8 are delivered this year (could be 10), they will then have 4 years to deliver the remaining 89-91 engines, just in time for HAL to comfortably deliver their order long before FY29. This will allow both companies to meet their respective deadlines.
Basically it means GE can deliver 88-90 engines by July 2028, enough to power all 83 jets along with replacing the Grade B engines. Worst case, they can take 3-4 more months and still deliver all 99 engines well before March 2029.
As for HAL, if we ignore this year, they have the potential to produce a minimum of 88 jets by FY29.
Exports are not possible until FY34 without a 4th line at the minimum. And even if a 4th line is established, it's much more likely that the IAF will absorb that into their own inventory.
The contract from FY26 is 16 per year for LCA and 20 per year for the engine.
GE seem to be planning to deliver 24 to make up for delays, which was always on the cards. They had said earlier tha production will be ramped up for delivery in FY26.
Assuming 8 are delivered this year (could be 10), they will then have 4 years to deliver the remaining 89-91 engines, just in time for HAL to comfortably deliver their order long before FY29. This will allow both companies to meet their respective deadlines.
Basically it means GE can deliver 88-90 engines by July 2028, enough to power all 83 jets along with replacing the Grade B engines. Worst case, they can take 3-4 more months and still deliver all 99 engines well before March 2029.
As for HAL, if we ignore this year, they have the potential to produce a minimum of 88 jets by FY29.
Exports are not possible until FY34 without a 4th line at the minimum. And even if a 4th line is established, it's much more likely that the IAF will absorb that into their own inventory.
Production was going on for SoKo's T-50 and FA-50 at the time. The US assembly line was in danger of closing. But the USAF chose Red Hawk in 2018 and saved it.
CCS approval came in Jan 21 after 3-4 years of negotiations IIRC between HAL , IAF & MoD- a delay which'd come back to haunt the IAF. In the meanwhile GE had ceased production of the F 404 due to no orders way back in 2019 if I'm not mistaken. Funds towards the clearance of the Mk-1a were released in the second half of 2021.
Orders were placed on GE by HAL for 99 nos GE F 404 TFs in Aug 21 with the first deliveries to commence in Mar 23.
GE had committed to delivering 16 nos per year which'd mean GE would expedite deliveries by Mar 2029 @16 nos per year .
Now anybody who's familiar with production of long lead items will know it's not possible to strictly adhere to those committed numbers on a per annum basis at least in the initial period though this isn't a given. Usually in such cases what happens is the vendor & the system integrator sit down & chart out a schedule which given what's in the public domain can be surmised as below -
GE begins by delivering 6-8 nos in the first year beginning Mar 2023. HAL begins production of Mk-1a by Apr 24 by which time it accumulates those 6-8 nos TFs it has received .
Right through FY 2024-25 HAL produces some 6-8 nos Mk-1a while GE increases supply to 10-12 nos TFs in the same FY.
This process continues with both GE & HAL graduating production numbers such that by Mar 2029 GE completes it's production quota & HAL executes the contract by 2029-30 moving on to the next product. As an insurance HAL retains an inventory of some 10-15% TFs for emergencies which is once again SOP in such cases.
I don't know why's the above so difficult to understand even if one isn't a production or mechanical engineer or has nothing to do with production planning & execution which in itself is simply a function of simple mathematics & common sense .
I guess someone , ideally a junior enthusiast , ought to take responsibility of summing up the situation here else we depend on 8 pm bombs by RST once every 3 years & then spend half a dozen pages arguing over trivial matters.
www.thehindu.com
Orders were placed on GE by HAL for 99 nos GE F 404 TFs in Aug 21 with the first deliveries to commence in Mar 23.
GE had committed to delivering 16 nos per year which'd mean GE would expedite deliveries by Mar 2029 @16 nos per year .
Now anybody who's familiar with production of long lead items will know it's not possible to strictly adhere to those committed numbers on a per annum basis at least in the initial period though this isn't a given. Usually in such cases what happens is the vendor & the system integrator sit down & chart out a schedule which given what's in the public domain can be surmised as below -
GE begins by delivering 6-8 nos in the first year beginning Mar 2023. HAL begins production of Mk-1a by Apr 24 by which time it accumulates those 6-8 nos TFs it has received .
Right through FY 2024-25 HAL produces some 6-8 nos Mk-1a while GE increases supply to 10-12 nos TFs in the same FY.
This process continues with both GE & HAL graduating production numbers such that by Mar 2029 GE completes it's production quota & HAL executes the contract by 2029-30 moving on to the next product. As an insurance HAL retains an inventory of some 10-15% TFs for emergencies which is once again SOP in such cases.
I don't know why's the above so difficult to understand even if one isn't a production or mechanical engineer or has nothing to do with production planning & execution which in itself is simply a function of simple mathematics & common sense .
I guess someone , ideally a junior enthusiast , ought to take responsibility of summing up the situation here else we depend on 8 pm bombs by RST once every 3 years & then spend half a dozen pages arguing over trivial matters.
CCS okays 83 LCAs worth around ₹47,000 cr. for IAF
Deal will be a game changer for self-reliance in Indian defence manufacturing: Rajnath
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Finally some positive news after all the "doom and gloom":
How to avoid delays in additional 97 Mk1As.
1. Give contract on time
2. Place order of Ge F 404 In20 ahead of time Or make in India to have more control
3. If improvements are sought to have Mk 2 features like side stick, Large are display cockpit etc like sport variant, approve and certify ahead to schedule.
We don't want to see repeat of all the delays again.
1. Give contract on time
2. Place order of Ge F 404 In20 ahead of time Or make in India to have more control
3. If improvements are sought to have Mk 2 features like side stick, Large are display cockpit etc like sport variant, approve and certify ahead to schedule.
We don't want to see repeat of all the delays again.
Even if there are delays, the additional 97 MK1A order is extremely important for us. Rest, all your points are good
No matter how early you plan to give contract, our or in general aerospace market supply chain is not impervious to market conditions that was being faced before and it is only stabilising. HAL has started placing orders even much before formal contracts are placed, as soon as rfp process matures at HQ & they get indication from MoD they start enquiry & place orders. Then comes the situation with imported parts, one of the reason why license mfg as local production is given priority, so shed some of that problems being faced, conditions beyond the control of any stakeholders.