LCA Tejas Mk1 & Mk1A - News and discussions

MK1A's 1st flight in 2023 simply means HAL & LCA program are dead. 40 MK1 production will be completed by 2021 as per below schedule(considering their commitment to produce 12 jets/year) :
16 > March 2019
28 > March 2020
40 > March 2021

So exactly what HAL will be doing for 2 years i.e. 2021 - 2023?

If 1A doesn't fly before December 2021, consider HAL registering huge loses. Ridiculously HAL is not releasing any info about progress on MK1A during AeroIndia 2019, that shows how late they are and their level of confidence.
 
Pundrick said:
MK1A's 1st flight in 2023 simply means HAL & LCA program are dead. 40 MK1 production will be completed by 2021 as per below schedule(considering their commitment to produce 12 jets/year) :
16 > March 2019
28 > March 2020
40 > March 2021

So exactly what HAL will be doing for 2 years i.e. 2021 - 2023?

If 1A doesn't fly before December 2021, consider HAL registering huge loses. Ridiculously HAL is not releasing any info about progress on MK1A during AeroIndia 2019, that shows how late they are and their level of confidence.
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2021-23, new contracts for mig29 and su 30.
 
randomradio said:
The Mk1 isn't suitable for replacing Mig-21. Only the Mk1A with the AESA and weight reduction can do that.

Also Mk1A production and flight testing will go on together since the airframe is already certified. This is not like the Mk2 program.
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250 kg ballast reduction and 500 kgweight reduction will not require another testing of airframe?
 
STEPHEN COHEN said:
We should nt be surprised if Next Govt caps the Mk 1 A numbers to some 20 odd

Simply because it is too late

The Timelines indicated for MK1 A
And Mk2 are a clear indication that
MMRCA 2 is absolutely necessary

And that The order size will go beyond 115
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Mk-1A will come fast as HAL wouldn't want to keep production line inactive after delivering trainers and there won't be any FOC too. IAF chief said they are going to release RFP soon.
 
randomradio said:
The Mk1 isn't suitable for replacing Mig-21. Only the Mk1A with the AESA and weight reduction can do that.
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Weight reduction is nothing major. You can make those changes on Mk-1 as well, while changing over to a new SP batch. It won't require much re-testing. The bulk of the time needed for Mk-1A development is taken up by the radar and EW suite.

In spite of the radar, it still remains an inadequate plane because of the airframe. That's the major problem which only Mk-2 will change. But with the AESA, it's just a bit less inadequate is all.

The Mk-1A would have made perfect sense if it came in a ready state 4 years ago. But looking at today's timeline, it's likely to only be available for series production sometime around 2024 give or take an year...at a time when the Mk-2 would already be in flight testing (if that isn't delayed as well).

Given the current timelines, between the two (Mk-1A & Mk-2), it only makes sense to procure one. And it shouldn't be the 1A for obvious reasons.

But all that is assuming we do anything sensibly, which I'd reckon we aren't known for.

For all intents & purposes, we'll be churning up the production line for a 4.5 gen jet (Mk-2) in early to mid-2030s. Not what the Air Force of a Top 5 economy ought to be doing, but like I said, sense took it's leave from this entire program a long time ago.
 
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Parthu said:
The Mk-1A would have made perfect sense if it came in a ready state 4 years ago. But looking at today's timeline, it's likely to only be available for series production sometime around 2024 give or take an year...at a time when the Mk-2 would already be in flight testing (if that isn't delayed as well).

Given the current timelines, between the two (Mk-1A & Mk-2), it only makes sense to procure one. And it shouldn't be the 1A for obvious reasons.
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Agree, all our focus/funds should be diverted towards mk2 and make it a reality as soon as possible.
 
Parthu said:
Weight reduction is nothing major. You can make those changes on Mk-1 as well, while changing over to a new SP batch. It won't require much re-testing. The bulk of the time needed for Mk-1A development is taken up by the radar and EW suite.

In spite of the radar, it still remains an inadequate plane because of the airframe. That's the major problem which only Mk-2 will change. But with the AESA, it's just a bit less inadequate is all.

The Mk-1A would have made perfect sense if it came in a ready state 4 years ago. But looking at today's timeline, it's likely to only be available for series production sometime around 2024 give or take an year...at a time when the Mk-2 would already be in flight testing (if that isn't delayed as well).

Given the current timelines, between the two (Mk-1A & Mk-2), it only makes sense to procure one. And it shouldn't be the 1A for obvious reasons.

But all that is assuming we do anything sensibly, which I'd reckon we aren't known for.

For all intents & purposes, we'll be churning up the production line for a 4.5 gen jet (Mk-2) in early to mid-2030s. Not what the Air Force of a Top 5 economy ought to be doing, but like I said, sense took it's leave from this entire program a long time ago.
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An Mk1A squadron is going to be raised pretty quickly, over the next 3-4 years. An Mk2 squadron only by 2028-30. I think you are underestimating the Mk1A program and overestimating the Mk2. If the Mk2 actually becomes available around the same time as Mk1A, then that's fine, and we should go for Mk2 instead, but in truth there's going to be a 5-year difference.

As for Mk1A deliveries, any delay from the development side will be compensated from the production side. HAL will easily be able to raise production numbers quickly, as much as 24-27 jets per year without any additional investment in real estate. In the meantime, HAL can produce all 18 trainers after the Mk1 production ends.
 
Specifications (F404-GE-402)
General characteristics
  • Type: Afterburning turbofan
  • Length: 154 in (391 cm)
  • Diameter: 35 in (89 cm)
  • Dry weight: 2,282 lb (1,036 kg)
Specifications (F414-400)
Data from GE Aviation[27] and Deagal.com[28]

General characteristics
  • Type: Afterburning turbofan
  • Length: 154 in (391 cm)
  • Diameter: 35 in (89 cm)
  • Dry weight: 2,445 lb (1,110 kg) max weight
So there is no difference in size between these two. 414 is just 74kg heavier. I think no structural change required. There may be other changes which I don't know. But if HAL can manage to equip Mk1a with Ge 414 then many it would be the best plane in TWR.
 
Shekhar Singh said:
Specifications (F404-GE-402)
General characteristics
  • Type: Afterburning turbofan
  • Length: 154 in (391 cm)
  • Diameter: 35 in (89 cm)
  • Dry weight: 2,282 lb (1,036 kg)
Specifications (F414-400)
Data from GE Aviation[27] and Deagal.com[28]

General characteristics
  • Type: Afterburning turbofan
  • Length: 154 in (391 cm)
  • Diameter: 35 in (89 cm)
  • Dry weight: 2,445 lb (1,110 kg) max weight
So there is no difference in size between these two. 414 is just 74kg heavier. I think no structural change required. There may be other changes which I don't know. But if HAL can manage to equip Mk1a with Ge 414 then many it would be the best plane in TWR.
Click to expand...
with the kind of weight reduction they are planning I am thinking if they will really go with 414 or will remain with 404. Long back there was a deal to supply 99 GE414 to india, this is not enough for 83 mk1A. So that 99 might go with NGTD and production version of MCA/AMCA.
 
Shekhar Singh said:
Specifications (F404-GE-402)
General characteristics
  • Type: Afterburning turbofan
  • Length: 154 in (391 cm)
  • Diameter: 35 in (89 cm)
  • Dry weight: 2,282 lb (1,036 kg)
Specifications (F414-400)
Data from GE Aviation[27] and Deagal.com[28]

General characteristics
  • Type: Afterburning turbofan
  • Length: 154 in (391 cm)
  • Diameter: 35 in (89 cm)
  • Dry weight: 2,445 lb (1,110 kg) max weight
So there is no difference in size between these two. 414 is just 74kg heavier. I think no structural change required. There may be other changes which I don't know. But if HAL can manage to equip Mk1a with Ge 414 then many it would be the best plane in TWR.
Click to expand...

It needs increase in inlet diameter for more air flow.
More fuel for boy less fuel fraction
 
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sid4587 said:
with the kind of weight reduction they are planning I am thinking if they will really go with 414 or will remain with 404. Long back there was a deal to supply 99 GE414 to india, this is not enough for 83 mk1A. So that 99 might go with NGTD and production version of MCA/AMCA.
Click to expand...

Out of 99, we got 8 or something , rest is follow on, we didn't sign yet
 
randomradio said:
An Mk1A squadron is going to be raised pretty quickly, over the next 3-4 years. An Mk2 squadron only by 2028-30. I think you are underestimating the Mk1A program and overestimating the Mk2. If the Mk2 actually becomes available around the same time as Mk1A, then that's fine, and we should go for Mk2 instead, but in truth there's going to be a 5-year difference.

As for Mk1A deliveries, any delay from the development side will be compensated from the production side. HAL will easily be able to raise production numbers quickly, as much as 24-27 jets per year without any additional investment in real estate. In the meantime, HAL can produce all 18 trainers after the Mk1 production ends.
Click to expand...

Over the next 3-4 years, we're gonna get to see the first flight of an airframe outfitted in the Mk-1A configuration, nothing more.

Nobody can (or should) make an entire squadron by the same time that configuration does its debut flight, that defies all logic. Only about an year or so following the Mk-1A first flight will Series Production of that configuration start (because there will be considerable moving around of things, fine-tuning, etc. which can only be figured out during flight testing, and until that fine-tuning is finalized, SP cannot begin. You can make airframes, but can't configure them in an SP standard till flight testing is done or mostly done).

Add another year to build enough planes for a squadron.

So possibly around 2024-2025. Over the next 5-6 years, not 3-4.
 
Parthu said:
Over the next 3-4 years, we're gonna get to see the first flight of an airframe outfitted in the Mk-1A configuration, nothing more.

Nobody can (or should) make an entire squadron by the same time that configuration does its debut flight, that defies all logic. Only about an year or so following the Mk-1A first flight will Series Production of that configuration start (because there will be considerable moving around of things, fine-tuning, etc. which can only be figured out during flight testing, and until that fine-tuning is finalized, SP cannot begin. You can make airframes, but can't configure them in an SP standard till flight testing is done or mostly done).

Add another year to build enough planes for a squadron.

So possibly around 2024-2025. Over the next 5-6 years, not 3-4.
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The 2 prototypes are to validate the avionics, not the aircraft. So aircraft production can start very early. Take the JF-17 Block 3. It's expected to fly next year, but will also see the first batch delivered to the PAF next year. Weird, eh? Not so.

HAL is expected to deliver FOC jets by mid/end 2020, trainers by mid/end 2021 and Mk1A by mid/end 2022. Which can also be 2023 in light of potentially new delays.

So even if they deliver the first squadron in 2023, at 24 jets a year, they can finish delivery of all 73 jets by 2025.

I don't believe it will take them more than 6-9 months to deliver the first batch after first flight.
 
I think it all depends upon how soon India stop all Russian su30, mig29 , jaguar upgrade programs and create a space to build their own product rather than putting money in Babu’s pocket .we know it will be very tough to get things done in a given timeline... Delays will bring advantage to foreign vendors to push their own products and in end blame a game and a chance to kill a beautiful indigenous product.AMCA TD will tell us how true is MK2 program .we should look towards Chinese and learn few things .
 
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