Line of Actual Control (LAC) : India & Tibet Border Updates

[Arvind]

but do they need to be roasted right now when they are already facing fire from external threats? can we give them support to counter that threat? at least that much we can do?

Did they ask for support when they claimed China has not intruded? Government has been using nationalism and armed forces for its political gain lately, and were able to against a weaker opponent but suddenly find herself in soup when it has to deal with superior force in China.

Captive of its own rhetoric and false image.

 

[Sanglamorre]

you should hold everyone accountable. but that has a time and place. using the skirmish happening right now to score political points only shows our divided state to the enemy.
as of now, I would hope people will support their armed forces And yes that includes the supreme commander, the DM, EAM, etc).
they also know that if they fail, they will be roasted.

but do they need to be roasted right now when they are already facing fire from external threats? can we give them support to counter that threat? at least that much we can do?

What good is it bolting the doors after the horse has fled the barn? All the roasting, and raking over the coals, and flambé needs to be done before we're done in by the people in charge of doing.

Using the Skirmish to score political points? So what needs be done? Should we wait for next domestic issue to crib about the mismanagement of the skirmish? The criticism is precisely due to the skirmish, it's not sniping using the Skirmish as an excuse.

If all those people knew they'd be roasted and all that, they'd have done things far sooner and with alacrity. I'm talking about the MEA, MOD here. Precisely because they know political dispensation comes and goes but babudom is eternal, like dried gum stuck to your sole, they don't really care. No matter how small India becomes, there'll still be a PM post to vie for, cabinet ministries to head, expensive alcohol to be had while entertaining the idea of choosing between weapon systems which should have been operational two decades ago.

Hence, we must be out with pitchforks, our Catherine wheels, and other torture instruments of our choice to keep people in charge of doing things very concerned with doing them post haste and with the fear of toasty, roasty pairs of nuts.

 

[screambowl]

This is the building right on Nathu La, yes? Then I'm afraid the situation is a bit different. It's a formal gate/immigration point. I actually have a picture of it.


[Actually, I'm removing the image here since I don't know if it's alright to post it. It has like loads of tourists, so that's not secretive. But, still. I'll post of a mod gives me okay]

The small green-brown camo polycarb sheet at the bottom is how most of the IA structures look, and a flat green.

And this is just the gate, nothing sensitive so don't go flipping on me. Those are milling tourists, so no sensitive info there.

There are photos on google too.
Any ways, that is little on Chinese side and little on Indian side.

That little green roof is the gate on Indian side and the red roof is on the Chinese side.

 

[Quicksilver]

What good is it bolting the doors after the horse has fled the barn? All the roasting, and raking over the coals, and flambé needs to be done before we're done in by the people in charge of doing.

Using the Skirmish to score political points? So what needs be done? Should we wait for next domestic issue to crib about the mismanagement of the skirmish? The criticism is precisely due to the skirmish, it's not sniping using the Skirmish as an excuse.

If all those people knew they'd be roasted and all that, they'd have done things far sooner and with alacrity. I'm talking about the MEA, MOD here. Precisely because they know political dispensation comes and goes but babudom is eternal, like dried gum stuck to your sole, they don't really care. No matter how small India becomes, there'll still be a PM post to vie for, cabinet ministries to head, expensive alcohol to be had while entertaining the idea of choosing between weapon systems which should have been operational two decades ago.

Hence, we must be out with pitchforks, our Catherine wheels, and other torture instruments of our choice to keep people in charge of doing things very concerned with doing them post haste and with the fear of toasty, roasty pairs of nuts.

the postmortem analysis happens after the project ends. but when the analysis is done, this could lead to complete overhaul.

after the 1962 and 1965 war, the Indian armed forces went through full overhaul. the result came in soon (1971 war). (henderson brooks-bhagat report)

but dont let this stop you. please continue with your pitch forks, because clearly our folks are not getting enough fire from enemies.

 

[Lolwa]

India has no road accessing that Galwan area where trucks can go to carry material. Only small track for patrolling. So they can't construct that much. More over there is a place Zo La in Sikkim, tracking area comes after Nathu La, if you watch the chinese side from there you can see blue or red roofs similar to what you are seeing in photos.

There is a reason why Rajnath ji rushed to Moscow.

Edit: But I forgot to mention that at many places in Sikkim the Indian army has red roof as well just like you see in the photo. The only reason why they are chinese structure is because I don't see any connectivity towards Indian side so how are they built. That's my doubt.

Even if you retake Aksai chin it will have the same effect. You destroy G219 and Xinjiang and most Tibet will be seperated from the Han mainland. Retaking Gilgit Baltistan is not as dangerous to them as much as retaking Aksai China is sadly we ain't invading both of them for the foreseeable future...

 

[Sanglamorre]

the postmortem analysis happens after the project ends. but when the analysis is done, this could lead to complete overhaul.

after the 1962 and 1965 war, the Indian armed forces went through full overhaul. the result came in soon (1971 war). (henderson brooks-bhagat report)

but dont let this stop you. please continue with your pitch forks, because clearly our folks are not getting enough fire from enemies.

Exactly. You're talking from the perspective of a post mortem, so the patient is already a corpse. Now, I'm not a doctor so I'm not an expert on this, but isn't death quite an inconvenience if one wants to live? It's rather a rude roadblock if your intention is to get the patient to live, which is where my criticism is coming from.

Oh yes, places like Galwan, Pagong don't quite have a thriving voting base does it? It's the way of the Indian politician, unless the resident voting base pokes the piggy, they don't quite squeal loudly enough. They surely aren't under enough fire from enemies ; the politicians and babus that is. After all, it's the poor soldier that dies in defence of the realm; their own crotch goblins are safely ensconced in some posh South Delhi school, or some Ivy League hobberdashery.

It's not the Chinese that worries them. It'll have to be us with our lynch sticks dragging the things they hold dear with their flailing limbs and impress upon them the kind of injuries that befall our soldiers that will terrify them to act. A few good posh nuts roasted, and you'll see things being done faster than you can say "Procurement issues plague the army".

Nothing like the fear of death to get people either to take measures, or flee.

There's a certain spiky rod, much like the one they used in Galwan I've got made for political party candidates when they come round to ask for votes again, whether we win the war or lose. Only thing different will be number of spikes added based on the result. 12

 

[Lolwa]

Did they ask for support when they claimed China has not intruded? Government has been using nationalism and armed forces for its political gain lately, and were able to against a weaker opponent but suddenly find herself in soup when it has to deal with superior force in China.

Captive of its own rhetoric and false image.

The gov is not in a soup as much as some people who are enjoying the crisis this government is experiencing instead of being worried about the situation some people are having sadistic pleasure in calling out the government on a situation which is developing. Nationalism was required for a country like Pak which has continued to take advantage of lack of unity within our people. The government is not in a trap and is not using nationalism in this case because it does not need nationalism to tackle the Chinese not right now atleast. The indians before 2014 were also similarly nationalist it was the constant subversion and media manipulation done by the Congress so that we never knew how much of our country had been sold by those vermin. It's the Lutyens media trying to use tactical restraint of the government to corner it into the nationalist box so as to create a negative image of the govt. They are trying extremely hard to exploit emotions of the common people by misrepresenting facts on the ground. Thankfully the media is crying hoarse for a 150 m incrusion because they remained silent when there baap meekly gave away 640 sq km to the Chinese...

 

[Volcano]

you should hold everyone accountable. but that has a time and place. using the skirmish happening right now to score political points only shows our divided state to the enemy.
as of now, I would hope people will support their armed forces And yes that includes the supreme commander, the DM, EAM, etc).
they also know that if they fail, they will be roasted.

but do they need to be roasted right now when they are already facing fire from external threats? can we give them support to counter that threat? at least that much we can do?

Ohh.. Lets not criticize Modiji during a standoff with China for not doing anything, because it make India looks divided? Peoples who are criticizing Modi is asking for actions, not anything else. If anything, enemy see significant amount of peoples asking for strong actions against Chinese aggression, instead of curerent impotency shown by the goverment, thats not really bad.

And talking about not taking political stands or criticizing government during standoff with China, Did anyone seen this guy?

https://twitter.com/x/status/367853984263847936

https://twitter.com/x/status/432202914283528192

https://twitter.com/x/status/333756200325894145

 

[LoneWolfSandeep]

I am surprised that some members still think that structures in PT14 is Indian. They are undeniably Chinese fortifications.


1) Defensive walls are facing Indian side. Chinese side of the base of open and even have a road. No army will shut down its retreat/supply line while keeping enemy face wide open for attack

2)Its on the other bank of the river, again if its Indian, we will have our back against a river whose water flow is controlled by Chinese. Something not anyone with a brain will do. If we built the fortifications, we would have built in the other bank of the river which is accessible to Indian vehicles. Also, river will be a natural obstruction to any chines assault.

3) Chinese already have heavy machines and diggers few 100 meters above for at-least 2 weeks, evident from old satellite pictures.

4)All Chinese tents are pink tents which IA do not use.
View attachment 16600

What you are referring to is who starting building them in first place - Ofcource Chinese did, what Nitin is referring is Now india Control these & will modify to its defense requirements.
This is not the first case either of India being assertive and taking over structure started by Chinese by builting its own over it.
Example - In Godra river - Chinese starting build a permanent structure next to river bed in India side of perceived LAC, That was at a very very crucial position, and we could lose a lot more land if left unchecked
What happened to that structure, Chinese were pushed away, and in a matter of a week or so, India built a massive fortified camp in that area, with direct line of sight from valleys from North & East from China side, from where they could being in vehicles etc in short notice..

Purple spot marks the spot

Direct access from Valley - Chinese Artillery & Armour in direct line of sight in North & East coming via narrow Valley..

More details can be found with Abhijit Iyer in this video

 

[Volcano]

I am not very familiar with the geography of Ladakh, but can someone explain why our DBO road is going right along LAC giving chese 100s of points to block the road in case of a war? After spending 20 years building this road, finally we found that it is useless in war and building an alternative road!!

when i looked at the satellite pictures, it was shockingly close to Chinese positions that it may be useless in the 1st day of war itself.

 

[Sanglamorre]

"Tactical restraint"
"Strategic misrepresentation"
"Calculated sub-optimal utilisation of resources"
"Planned out infirmity"
"Wargamed inaction"
"Diplomatic non commitment"

Aur chahiye flowery words to make things more palatable?

The argument of not critiquing the govt because their short sightedness landed itself (and us) in hot water is as effective as the one about not building infra at border to not antagonize the Chinese.

 

[Volcano]

What you are referring to is who starting building them in first place - Ofcource Chinese did, what Nitin is referring is Now india Control these & will modify to its defense requirements.
This is not the first case either of India being assertive and taking over structure started by Chinese by builting its own over it.
Example - In Godra river - Chinese starting build a permanent structure next to river bed in India side of perceived LAC, That was at a very very crucial position, and we could lose a lot more land if left unchecked
What happened to that structure, Chinese were pushed away, and in a matter of a week or so, India built a massive fortified camp in that area, with direct line of sight from valleys from North & East from China side, from where they could being in vehicles etc in short notice..
View attachment 16603
Purple spot marks the spot
View attachment 16604
Direct access from Valley - Chinese Artillery & Armour in direct line of sight in North & East coming via narrow Valley..

More details can be found with Abhijit Iyer in this video

Thanks for the video.

I don't think the structures in PT14 is now in our control. The image i posted is from June 22. There is no way we took it over in the last 48 hours, without any bloodshed. Fortifications are strong and cannot be breached without softening it with artillery.

 

[LoneWolfSandeep]

Thanks for the video.

I don't think the structures in PT14 is now in our control. The image i posted is from June 22. There is no way we took it over in the last 48 hours, without any bloodshed. Fortifications are strong and cannot be breached without softening it with artillery.

No bloodshed was shed in Godra region too, yet we took over.. I dont think Chinese have a appetite to go in for a all out brawl again if Indians decided to camp there, going by the reports of there number of dead in last encounter & fear sycosis suffered by them. (numbers vary depending on who you trust, Indian observation & intelligence, CIA Intelligence report or UN report in incident)
We went deep in & capturing of there senior officer from right under there nose, protected by sword welding armed chinese guards - The Sikhs made short work of them & brought the officer to India as bargaining chip..
This was the reason why Chinese went quite & dark and agree to release Indian 10, which included some Officers.

 

[Volcano]

No bloodshed was shed in Godra region too, yet we took over.. I dont think Chinese have a appetite to go in for a all out brawl again if Indians decided to camp there, going by the reports of there number of dead in last encounter & fear sycosis suffered by them. (numbers vary depending on who you trust, Indian observation & intelligence, CIA Intelligence report or UN report in incident)
We went deep in & capturing of there senior officer from right under there nose, protected by sword welding armed Chinese guards - The Sikhs made short work of them & brought the officer to India as bargaining chip..
This was the reason why Chinese went quite & dark and agree to release Indian 10, which included some Officers.

The new fortifications in Galwan valley is built after the deadly confrontation with the Chinese. Actually they build entire fortifications in just 4 days between June 18-22. Why would they double down and build massive fortification in PT14 right after the deadly fight if they are fearful of us like you claim? Also, few dead soldiers are not enough to scare CCP. PLA never cared about the number of dead soldiers ever in its history, they only care about strategic objective. They lost hundreds of thousands of troops in Korean war, still they didn't backed off. (American claim of 900,000 causalities on china). Don't mistake China for coward, they defiantly are not cowards. China is not backing down, it is doubling down.


Galwan valley is one of the few routes to Askai chin from Indian side. For China, it is strategic position. There is no way they will just hand it over for us to occupy. They might agree on mutual withdrawal, but never handover than fortifications to us.


Regardless, new satellite pictures will come out in few days, if now tomorrow itself.

 

[LoneWolfSandeep]

I had earlier talked of massive Cloud Burst all over China with non stop rain
24 provinces in China have issued a flood warning with next 6-7days being critical for China - 400 million lives are at stake (3 gorge dam).

3 Three Gorges dam which looked in 2009 like this

Presently it looks like this

With water lvl quite high above flood lvs due to non stop rain..
The Experts are warning it may collapse

Expert warns Chinas Three Gorges Dam in danger of collapse | Taiwan News | Jun. 22, 2020 16:04

www.taiwannews.com.tw

China: Experts warn 400 million lives are at risk as catastrophic flooding threatens Three Gorges Dam, co. says dam deformation is part of "elastic" design - Business & Human Rights Resource Centre

www.business-humanrights.org

Ofcoure Pak handles will claim that like the flood in J & K which sank 2/3 of Pakistan was deliberately started by India, am sure now with clashes with India & China going under multiple cloud burst.. Its all a Indian Sagish..

But on the other hand i see a already weakened structure, which could wipe out 400mil downstream if it suddenly gives way.. If push comes to shove, a little help by a air borne fire breathing dragon, could wipe the Hans away

 

[LoneWolfSandeep]

The new fortifications in Galwan valley is built after the deadly confrontation with the Chinese. Actually they build entire fortifications in just 4 days between June 18-22. Why would they double down and build massive fortification in PT14 right after the deadly fight if they are fearful of us like you claim?

You read opposite of what i was saying

 

[Sulla84]

I had earlier talked of massive Cloud Burst all over China with non stop rain
24 provinces in China have issued a flood warning with next 6-7days being critical for China - 400 million lives are at stake (3 gorge dam).

3 Three Gorges dam which looked in 2009 like this
View attachment 16605
Presently it looks like this
View attachment 16607
With water lvl quite high above flood lvs due to non stop rain..

Are you sure its a problem with structural integrity of 3 gorges dam.. The image looks distorted.. maybe deliberate. maybe not.. but there do not seem to be any structural issue..

 

[Schwifty]

I don't think the three gorges dam has such a large deformity,maybe it's in mm which won't be visible from space...the crooked pictures of the dam is due to google stitching images erroneously.

 

[BlackOpsIndia]

The interpetation is wrong. If you see the structure on Indian side, they have mud/slope on chinese side and flat towards Indian side. This is how you build defensive structures. The upward slope on the enemy side helps you to deflect or render useless all incoming fire. A vertical wall will take a direct hit and will collapse.

Please see the image with this article

India-China clash

Satellite images suggest Chinese activity at India's Himalayan border before clash

graphics.reuters.com

This was the status on 16th June 2020.

So are you saying we built these Chinese looking structures after conflict, that runs into Chinese controlled area without any bloodshed and resistance?

Also did we capture deep along the river bed because those trucks are coming with supplies from Chinese side.

I am leaving here few clues and I am sure people will weave a theory that we had some big victory we didn't tell about and now we control everything beyond LAC that's why those trucks. It will sell so well with so many fanboys around.

 

[randomradio]

I had earlier talked of massive Cloud Burst all over China with non stop rain
24 provinces in China have issued a flood warning with next 6-7days being critical for China - 400 million lives are at stake (3 gorge dam).

3 Three Gorges dam which looked in 2009 like this
View attachment 16605
Presently it looks like this
View attachment 16607
With water lvl quite high above flood lvs due to non stop rain..
The Experts are warning it may collapse

Expert warns Chinas Three Gorges Dam in danger of collapse | Taiwan News | Jun. 22, 2020 16:04

www.taiwannews.com.tw

China: Experts warn 400 million lives are at risk as catastrophic flooding threatens Three Gorges Dam, co. says dam deformation is part of "elastic" design - Business & Human Rights Resource Centre

www.business-humanrights.org

Ofcoure Pak handles will claim that like the flood in J & K which sank 2/3 of Pakistan was deliberately started by India, am sure now with clashes with India & China going under multiple cloud burst.. Its all a Indian Sagish..

But on the other hand i see a already weakened structure, which could wipe out 400mil downstream if it suddenly gives way.. If push comes to shove, a little help by a air borne fire breathing dragon, could wipe the Hans away

The dam's fine. Only the image is distorted.

These are some of the extremes.

Wild Distortions on Google Earth Maps Captured (PHOTOS) | The Weather Channel

See if you recognize any of these map images of land distorted by Google Earth's algorithm. - Articles from The Weather Channel | weather.com

weather.com