Line of Actual Control (LAC) : India & Tibet Border Updates

[Lolwa]

I seriously can't comment on NDA-1s Pakistan love because in 2013, neither had I voting rights, nor was I interested in politics/affairs of the nation. But, what I say very clearly that this isn't the first Pathankot style watershed moment the Chinese gave Modi, they did it in earlier in 2017, Doklam. He should have got the memo then.

Sure, I can agree that it'll take time to indegenise weapon industry. But, what sticks in my craw is that these same missiles could have been bought from Russia far earlier. We already got a thorny situation vis-a-vis Pakistan last year. We could have even got to Russia as late as May! What would you have done if Russia refused to sell these? Run to US and France for missiles that might not have been integrated yet for Russian fighters?

I agree that the political classes should show desperation rather than military. But I also know that the military is being tied and kept in a dark room by them. They could have stopped the Chinese long ago, but the political class wouldn't allow it.

Those missiles were actually ordered post balakot. Also Rajnath had asked for fast tracking the igla s and ak203 orders primarily which were going for talks for the past year.
For NDA 1 the only bad moment was doklam and in doklam the situation ended without too much problems. It was just mostly eyeballing and repositioning of forces. Modi handled it very well without escalating it into a war. This time the Chinese tried to overplay their cards and were effectively countered by the IA incursion on 15 th June. Just imagine if the Chinese had tried to change the course of galwan river during the UPA we would have done nothing. Modi is actually matching the tempo of the Chinese so we are countering them effectively. The problem is that it's the Chinese who control the tempo//escalation ladder. If we really want to straighten up the Chinese it's us who have to take initiative and start controlling the tempo of of this confrontation. We do have a lot of cards if we really started employing them it would really rattle the Chinese. They are effectively don't have to worry because of non aggressive India and underestimate us. We are one of the only countries who really can grab them by the pussy.
Right now
1.) We haven't militarised the Quad that trigger is effectively in our control. This is the biggest card you give the Quad an anti-Chinese form and the Chinese will really be pushed in the corner. It will give them flashbacks of the boxer rebellion
2.) We haven't recognised Taiwan
3.)We haven't called them out on suppression of people of Hong Kong,Tibet and Xinjiang
4.) We can claim Tibet as our protectorate by invoking the Anglo-tibetan of 1904. Because it was just a transfer of power from the British we can effectively use the claims of British India on Chinese territory.
5.) We could use some of our influence on calling them out on Covid crisis and blaming them on spreading the virus.

There are many more small leverage points that we can use to irk China

 

[Quicksilver]

Dear, we are as big a nationalist as you are and keep awaiting good news which can make us proud. However what we get in return is hollow claims to cheer to which we simply refuse.

We have the right to celebrate the real success of our armed forces, our diplomatic channels, our people. We crib, we whine because few have taken away this right of ours.

I simply jumped on the link you posted just above, with a hope, to find something credible to prove those structures are really Indian but in return what I read, merely a statement saying they are Indian, citing no tech argument or government statement. Do you really expect us to jump in joy over such articles when we know dragon is around us sniffing the chance?

there was no tech or argument or govt statement stating that this was chinese structures as well. but that dint stop you guys from believing it was. did it?

 

[jetray]

1.) We haven't militarised the Quad that trigger is effectively in our control. This is the biggest card you give the Quad an anti-Chinese form and the Chinese will really be pushed in the corner. It will give them flashbacks of the boxer rebellion
2.) We haven't recognised Taiwan
3.)We haven't called them out on suppression of people of Hong Kong,Tibet and Xinjiang

5.) We could use some of our influence on calling them out on Covid crisis and blaming them on spreading the virus.

"4.) We can claim Tibet as our protectorate by invoking the Anglo-tibetan of 1904. Because it was just a transfer of power from the British we can effectively use the claims of British India on Chinese territory."
other than this no other thing will have any effect. who cares what u think or do? pakistan goes to OIC are we afraid. they get weapons from china are we standing down. same holds good true other way too. Unless u can do some irreparable damage no f*** will given.

 

[Hellfire]

"4.) We can claim Tibet as our protectorate by invoking the Anglo-tibetan of 1904. Because it was just a transfer of power from the British we can effectively use the claims of British India on Chinese territory."
other than this no other thing will have any effect. who cares what u think or do? pakistan goes to OIC are we afraid. they get weapons from china are we standing down. same holds good true other way too. Unless u can do some irreparable damage no f*** will given.

You can not. Not without serious repercussions - your treaty, national word and understandings not the least of them. In 2003 joint communique, under PM Mr Vajpayee, for the first time Tibet was officially acknowledged as a part of People's Republic of China.

India's Betrayal of Tibet - WSJ

www.wsj.com

China and India Edge a Bit Closer to a Border Accord (Published 2003)

India and China sign joint declaration in which India emphasizes that Tibet is part of China and China agrees to begin trading with India's northeastern state of Sikkim; Prime Min Atal Bihari Vajpayee says his meeting with Chinese leaders in Beijing will lead to stable, enduring and...

www.nytimes.com

There is No Tibet Card for India to Play. Here's Why.

China considers Tibet a 'core' issue and any change in India's historical position would mean challenging China’s territorial integrity, to which Beijing would likely respond with violence.

thewire.in

there was no tech or argument or govt statement stating that this was chinese structures as well. but that dint stop you guys from believing it was. did it?

A dispassionate analysis of the fortifications will indicate it to be the work of PLA, the orientation of the defensive lines and redoubts. One can always argue, for example, that there is no oxygen on moon or conversely, there is.

 

[Hellfire]

There's definitely some information control going on in the media.

I made a post 4 days ago indicating radio silence. Yes, the calibration of information being released is now underway. Most are conjectures, like PLAAF moving into Skardu, which, I too did not verify and found to my horror, to be untrue. I was wrong, and posted it as such myself.

 

[Hellfire]

@vstol Jockey I studiously avoid posting on some of your posts, especially where you forget that the OLQs are inherent to what constitutes an Officer and what does not, because you, on account of having joined the services before me, are a senior. It does not behove me to respond in a manner where, it is seemingly apparent, you will understand only in a language that you speak., that of lacking OLQs.

I shall continue to do the same, not falling to the level of Brig Thapar, who was given back in the same vein by Maj Arya the other day, when the former forgot that one of the inherent quality of an officer is never to put one's self in a position where he/she is embarrassed, especially by a junior. And the latter that even though the former was being out of line, the latter could have dealt with it in a more dignified manner. No sir, I am not a street urchin looking for 'proving my credentials'. I really do not care to. I write/post what I analyse/corroborate/verify or feel like. It is up to the audience to accept it, reject it or ignore it. The only handle which I wilfully take a shot at is the said Baba handle which posts more crap than can be digested. There is a reason for that.

At the end, my sincere advice and suggestion to you would be to remember your OLQs. You are only degenerating your own dignity as an Officer and putting up a poor show as an Officer of the Indian Armed Forces.

Regards.

What do you think about those pink structures in Galway Valley and pla moving in 17 km by Saurav jha

Let us take the claim line of IB as per our map, would be too much deep then.

Galwan, specific to the camp, have made my views on it public - earlier. They are not deeper than what they used to routinely patrol.

Since 1993, when we used to patrol to PP 19, yes they are deeper in. But let us stick to the facts as they stand today.

 

[STEPHEN COHEN]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1276343424526909440

 

[Saaho]

@Falcon Good to see you back here!

I saw your tweet on Tibet. I always had this one doubt. The schizophrenic policy of India regarding Tibet. It goes something like this.

1. Very early on, India diplomatically allowed China to annex Tibet. This too without negotiating on Kailas Mansarovar. Remember, India was the conduit via which supplies to Tibet flowed in 1950's annexation. Food grains like Rice went from India to occupying Chinese force. Moreover, India helped China to supress tibetian question in UN.

2. India then allowed Dalai Lama to take refuge in India and form a government in exile. This was before '62 war and infact became a reason of conflict in '62.

Why the hell did we do it? Why the hell we had this confusing and messed up policy sending confusing signals to Mao? Either we should have protected Tibet and captured it as a protectorate or went full in with Chinese. Why this schizophrenic policy?

 

[STEPHEN COHEN]

Why this schizophrenic policy?

Because Tibetans are Buddhists

So it was our religious duty to help them in surviving the Chinese onslaught

At that time even Pakistanis were welcome to come back to India

This stopped in 1965

China only wanted the land of Tibet

Arunachal and Ladakh are both Buddhist areas , the Tibetans will naturally choose India to escape and survive

 

[shaxm]

@Falcon Good to see you back here!

I saw your tweet on Tibet. I always had this one doubt. The schizophrenic policy of India regarding Tibet. It goes something like this.

1. Very early on, India diplomatically allowed China to annex Tibet. This too without negotiating on Kailas Mansarovar. Remember, India was the conduit via which supplies to Tibet flowed in 1950's annexation. Food grains like Rice went from India to occupying Chinese force. Moreover, India helped China to supress tibetian question in UN.

2. India then allowed Dalai Lama to take refuge in India and form a government in exile. This was before '62 war and infact became a reason of conflict in '62.

Why the hell did we do it? Why the hell we had this confusing and messed up policy sending confusing signals to Mao? Either we should have protected Tibet and captured it as a protectorate or went full in with Chinese. Why this schizophrenic policy?

INC policy has always been to weaken India. Allow tibet annexation. This creates anti indian sentiments among tibetans, india also loses critical places of civilizational importance, also helps the hostile enemy China to get to the indian borders.
Second, to give refuge to Dalai lama, that helps swell up anti indians feelings even more among chinese.

As long as you understand that INC is a anti india and anti hindu party. its not difficult to understand whaat they do and why they do it.

 

[STEPHEN COHEN]

Indian Army alert to PLA build-up in hotspot Depsang - Times of India

Army chief General Naravane, during his trip to forward areas of eastern Ladakh over the last couple of days, directed further strengthening of patrolling to the 65 points on the LAC to plug all gaps, while reviewing the operational situation in all sectors from Daulat Beg Oldie-Depsang.

m.timesofindia.com

 

[STEPHEN COHEN]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1276323907251785728

 

[noksss]

Official confirmation of no backing off

India China border standoff: Government warns China of ‘consequences’ | India News - Times of India

India News: The ministry of external affairs on Thursday clearly indicated that the ground situation along the LAC could not linger on indefinitely and in a state

timesofindia.indiatimes.com

 

[randomradio]

You can not. Not without serious repercussions - your treaty, national word and understandings not the least of them. In 2003 joint communique, under PM Mr Vajpayee, for the first time Tibet was officially acknowledged as a part of People's Republic of China.

India's Betrayal of Tibet - WSJ

www.wsj.com

China and India Edge a Bit Closer to a Border Accord (Published 2003)

India and China sign joint declaration in which India emphasizes that Tibet is part of China and China agrees to begin trading with India's northeastern state of Sikkim; Prime Min Atal Bihari Vajpayee says his meeting with Chinese leaders in Beijing will lead to stable, enduring and...

www.nytimes.com

There is No Tibet Card for India to Play. Here's Why.

China considers Tibet a 'core' issue and any change in India's historical position would mean challenging China’s territorial integrity, to which Beijing would likely respond with violence.

thewire.in

That was always a bad move in my books. But I suppose we can go back on it, as long as we have the comprehensive national power to back it up. Political will goes without saying.

A dispassionate analysis of the fortifications will indicate it to be the work of PLA, the orientation of the defensive lines and redoubts. One can always argue, for example, that there is no oxygen on moon or conversely, there is.

So they are now on PP14...

 

[noksss]

Global times confirms to PLA hiding casualties

I believe that the dead have been treated with the highest respect in the military, and that the information will eventually be reported to society at the right time, so that heroes can be honored and remembered as they deserve.

India gained only casualties from border clash - Global Times

www.globaltimes.cn

 

[Yashpatel604]

Time series at #Galwan shows how two patches of land, connected by multiple structures in May, had been disconnected by June with defensive walls on either side; raising questions on how structures across the river were supposedly built by India without physical access

https://twitter.com/x/status/1276387522608693248

 

[jetray]

In 2003 joint communique, under PM Mr Vajpayee, for the first time Tibet was officially acknowledged as a part of People's Republic of China.

yes , bartered for recognition of sikkim. I will spare the rant & rave, more than a treaty it was an arrangement that two ppl not to raise each others misdeeds..... you know rt. Its no longer beneficial as one of them wants to have a bigger pie by hurting us, its time to remind them we have the power to change the status quo to benefit us. When it has already reached this situation its no use to talk abt treaties. china has already done that in HK , SCS...etc

Seriously to expect nehru & vajpayee treaties to survive in the age of xi & modi is totally anachronistic. we need to learn from chinese they create one where nothing exists thats called living in modern age instead of 1960.

 

[jetray]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1276343424526909440

yup, american intelligence was very useful I suppose. We actually found out china was our long lost neighbor. These kind of stuff are always prone to exaggeration to make them look friendlier. would americans mind us telling how amraams dropped from sky on Indian territory last year?

 

[jetray]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1276323907251785728

china was already aggressive its only we thought the wolf wont attack us bcos we lived in la la land.

That was always a bad move in my books. But I suppose we can go back on it, as long as we have the comprehensive national power to back it up. Political will goes without saying.

exactly,

 

[vstol Jockey]

@vstol Jockey I studiously avoid posting on some of your posts, especially where you forget that the OLQs are inherent to what constitutes an Officer and what does not, because you, on account of having joined the services before me, are a senior. It does not behove me to respond in a manner where, it is seemingly apparent, you will understand only in a language that you speak., that of lacking OLQs.

I shall continue to do the same, not falling to the level of Brig Thapar, who was given back in the same vein by Maj Arya the other day, when the former forgot that one of the inherent quality of an officer is never to put one's self in a position where he/she is embarrassed, especially by a junior. And the latter that even though the former was being out of line, the latter could have dealt with it in a more dignified manner. No sir, I am not a street urchin looking for 'proving my credentials'. I really do not care to. I write/post what I analyse/corroborate/verify or feel like. It is up to the audience to accept it, reject it or ignore it. The only handle which I wilfully take a shot at is the said Baba handle which posts more crap than can be digested. There is a reason for that.

At the end, my sincere advice and suggestion to you would be to remember your OLQs. You are only degenerating your own dignity as an Officer and putting up a poor show as an Officer of the Indian Armed Forces.

Regards.

Let us talk about OLQs on another thread. It is one topic which is very badly misunderstood in the armed forces. People hide their cowardice and their incompetence in the garb of OLQs. And many people with zero OLQs actually get promoted while the best suffer. Onething which surely is not OLQ is to act and speak in a manner which is politically correct or highly biased.