Line of Actual Control (LAC) : India & Tibet Border Updates

As long as the details of yesterday's meeting are published it is very hard to actually predict what is going to happen. So far nothing has come up.
Let's wait and see. @randomradio the narrative in China I believe is unknown. Their government has not given limelight to this conflict. So not sure much of the total population of the country is even aware of the situation.
 
Why you always keep ranting about "dabbas and politician"??

And what is so special about the @Falcon that he can't serve under them, both are part of the society . People in armed forces too come from the society and have the same moral compass.

Do you think that Indian military is unblemished??

1) a military which can't even decide which caliber rifle to be purchased and set a requirements which entire world failed to meet.

2) all those support for the Russian tin can even at the expense of desi industry

3) obsolescence by trial

4) army which had the Aircraft carrier but not the winter clothes in 62 war, was that also prioritised by the political class??
5) army which has the budget more than the entire budget of Pakistan yet says "out ranged by the AMrAam".
6) IAf which has a budget more than the defense budget of PAF, yet couldn't deliver a spectacular all out victory in any war be it 62,65,71 or a limited but shoddy at best balakot.
7) if you continues to raise question about the balakot it simple means IAF failed to convince you not the prime minister .


What quality had the generals like BM kaul, Deepak kapoor, JJ singh,VP malik etc to be qualified as a role model.


It is infact politician who has covered the posterior of Indian military many a times.


You can criticise Nehru all you want but he ensured we claim the border, which barring akshai chin is still more or less part of LAC. If left to the army LAC would have been substantially different.

If army was in bad shape in 62 wasn't it the responsibility of the generals to apprise him of the situation??

Was it Nehru who was on the ground making strategies or were the generals??
When army simply folded up and you think the politician should have faith in them. Nehru's immediate demand for usaf personnel along with their fighters should indicate his faith in the army during that time. If army top brass had simply told the prime minister bluntly that they are in a pathetic condition and can't face the Chinese Army do you think any sane politician would have given go ahead?


In 65 it was the shastri who had the audacity to open Punjab front. Why he was forced to open that front??
The reason being sub optimal performance of Indian Army on loc.

wasn't indian army caught napping in kargil and it was the Vajpayee who put all his political capital on the line to cover the failure. modi also didn't escalated after 27 feb ,may be he was less than impressed by the performance of IAF.


the only significant achievement of Indian Army in all out war was in Bangladesh and that too with the support of mukti bahini.


and after listing all this I want to simply ask how many generals have been held responsible and been punished??
in Israel a lot of generals were removed after 6 day war.


infact in India military has been never scrutinised and they have been always placed above the pedestal. it's always the political class who has suffered on account of incompetence of military in the face of electoral setback.


and what your grudge about bureaucracy, they have their shortcomings but is their any organ of the government /society which can claim that they are perfect? like any other organs of the states they too have fair share of success and failure.

so if you want to rant, keep it to minimum, no body wants to read page after page the word like "dabbas and what not". Which sounds so repetitive and bereft of substance. We live in a democracy not under the boot of the military where people in the armed forces are any special, like political class army too represent the microcosm of Indian society with all its virtues and vice.
I am impressed with this reply. You have summed it up very nicely. While Armed forces have rightly decided not to interfere in the political matters of the nation, but that does not stop them from being vocal about what they need and rather accept anything thrown at them by the bureaucrats in the garb of the decisions of political leadership. There has been a sustained attempt to keep services deficient in armament and reduce their status in the society. The main culprits for this have been our Generals and equivalents. Take the case of FM. Thimayya, His rival, Gen Thapar was willing to not only bend whichever way and do whatever it took to be the Top Gen that he even agreed to conspire against his own chief. That was in 1961/62. Can anyone blame bureaucracy for this? Who accepted lower salaries and privilages than the bureaucracy? who were those Generals and what did they do to reverse it? For a Governorship after retirement, they played with the future of juniors. Who let Col. Purohit rot in prison and who sold him to UPA for what price? A flat in Mumbai and two generals kept their mouth shut. This is how cheap you can buy them.
Another case rightly pointed out is the clamour for imported products with different sets of goals and QRs. We bought M2K in 1982 in IOC config but we did not accept LCA till FOC was granted to it. The rifles is another good example given by you. What will you call a service which can't even finalise the QRs of the stuff it needs? Late Parrikar was very correct when he stated that Indian Armed Forces laydown QRs after reading comics. It was this mentality which saw IA order more T-90s while laying down QRs for MBT Arjun which a T-90MS is also not able to meet even today.
The rot always starts from within. Blaming dabbawala is wrong. Who allowed them to climb our backs, our own people supported them in this. The day a Brig or equivalent is posted to delhi, his only aim is to somehow keep these dabbawala in good humour to the point of licking their backsides to get promotions and better postings.
Armed forces get what is the society of India as pointed out by you. If the raw material is bad, final product too will be bad. A lot of good image of the Indian Armed Forces is actually due to politicians who had to cover up their failures and of Indian Armed forces for their political gains.

News that pak is amassing troops at its Ladakh border.

A phone call from pompeo will make them wet their pants!
just the way they stopped supporting Taliban after so many phone calls.
 
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I really hope that India doesn't de-escalate and de-induct our troops. This will be a disaster from Indian point of view.
Covid is a hindrance, but we cannot expect our enemy to be so kind where they will wait for our problems to be over before attacking. We should be able to defend the integrity of our country irrespective of any situation. That's the expectation from a professional army and a capable government.
If what falcon says is true and we will find out eventually, this will be really shameful from our perspective.

Opposition will definitely make this is a 1962 moment for modi since they finally they got a chance to beat modi on his nationalist/strong leader credentials . I don't think modi will choose to give a big stick for opposition to beat him with
 

Why the military.. ?
My guess is that this is a whole new level of Tsun Chewtiya psychological warfare. Next the chinese will share it with Pakistan Army, so that Indian Army quakes in its boots.. The vaccine most probably is a dud
 
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As long as the details of yesterday's meeting are published it is very hard to actually predict what is going to happen. So far nothing has come up.
Let's wait and see.

I don't think anything's going to happen at this time except mobilisation of forces and talks.

GoI's main weapon is to create as much economic impact as possible, and also by including other countries in that retaliation. Even ASEAN may follow in our lead, and the West definitely has to. So the first shot should be fired towards economic isolation of China. And a collective effort should be made to bring down China's Great Firewall and follow that up with opening up the Chinese tech business to foreign investment. Coercive diplomacy is our forte, not China's.

As for China's occupation of buffer territories, we need to see if they dig in for the winter or not. So this is going to take a long time to resolve.

@randomradio the narrative in China I believe is unknown. Their government has not given limelight to this conflict. So not sure much of the total population of the country is even aware of the situation.

In that sense there's no narrative within the Indian public as well, it's only whatever opinions people give about the situation that's prevalent.
 
Not really, they have grown immune to US calls, when it comes to India they readily hurt US directly, hundreds of examples in Afghanistan. Pakistan has suicidal tendency, they don't respond to reason.
@vstol jocky

I did not mean a mere call, but a threat like Bush told. back to stone age. That US will interfere if Pak is involved against them.
just the way they stopped supporting Taliban after so many phone calls.

But they did provide their air space and Air bases for Americans to pound Afgan!
 
What if the military talks are just a show, so as to keep the farce of engagement going, while the buildup continues.. Because, if there are no talks, then, there will be pressure from US, EU, UN for some sort of mediation which neither party wants..

In that case, we don't have to loose anything. We are getting stronger and stronger. Much more defense stuff is coming in from across the world. In my opinion, this is the right time to humiliate china in a small conflict. They must pay the price of their wrong doing.