Line of Actual Control (LAC) : India & Tibet Border Updates

Star Wars said:
Looks like we are waiting for winter to move in.

- Current chaos in Congress, the gold smuggling scam in Kerala, and the recent attempt by UDF for a no-confidence motion against CPIM suggests that the govt. is on the final stages of silencing its internal enemies or what we call .5 of the 2.5 front war.
- Another hint is the massive investment and works towards developing the infrastructure in LAC. Ensure the troops fighting in the front have the supplies moving in, in case we have to fight the Chinese and the Pakistanis.
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I don't think the infrastructure needed will be completed so soon. We are 5 years away to ensure parity with Chinese infrastructure according to this article.

www.hindustantimes.com

India pushes to complete 61 strategic roads on China border by 2022

These roads add up to a total length of 3,417km, of which 2,350km has been completed.
www.hindustantimes.com www.hindustantimes.com
Singh said India is aiming to match infrastructure on the Chinese side of the border by 2024-25. “Projects are being monitored by the highest levels of the government. We are course to be on a par with China on the infrastructure front,” he added.

So BRO plans to finish construction of 61 roads by Dec 2022. CPWD is building 12 roads, with no completion date mentioned. All stuff planned in 1997.

And 44 roads were awaiting clearance at the time of the article, which I presume are expected to be completed before 2025.
 
randomradio said:
Yeah, I hope that's the case. Nevertheless, the Derby ER + MICA IR combo is a pretty good option for the MKI.
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The R77-1 and R77M do not need test firing to validate their performance from Su-30MKI or Mig-29 as they are same missiles with a slightly extended range. But The new missiles needed upgrade of software and validation. That is why they were test fired in May-June last year.

Star Wars said:
Agreed, I get the feeling the entire thing was well planned from day one. OSINT handles had started heavily reporting on Chinese movements. Hence cornering the Chinese and making a face-saving exit/withdrawal very difficult. As someone mentioned here earlier. Chinese does not want a fight on their western border. They are looking for a face-saving exit.
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Most guys here have forgotten the kind of intel we got from our access to Israeli satellites for Balakot. I do not want to say much but today we have far better intel from every satellite of every country of NATO including USA. We know exactly everything across LAC and LOC better than what Chinese have about us. Lastly, please do not do the mistake of misjudging the abilities of our war planners and junior leadership of IA to deliver out of the world performance. We showed it in Kargil also.
Indian Army wanted time, Modi gave them the time even after facing so much of criticism. People have questioned him and ridiculed him. If you may remember my earlier posts, I had stated that many a times, the political leadership has pulled out military from their bafoonary. I have just one question, how did PLA come in to those areas undetected? Was it was a failure of Indian Army and ITBP.
 
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Lolwa said:
See I know Pravin Sawhney is a shill and I know his bs AI war that he keep peddling. But his criticism for Bipin Rawat seems interesting because his CI speciality might have resulted in him not seeing the Chinese threat properly..
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The interesting thing about Bipin Rawat is that it took a CI expert to start the process of bringing about the most comprehensive reorganization of Indian military structure, since General Sundarji..
vstol Jockey said:
I have just one question, how did PLA come in to those areas undetected? Was it was a failure of Indian Army and ITBP
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Do you intend to say that it was a deliberate ploy by India, to let the Chinese come in and occupy those positions?
 
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Sulla84 said:
The interesting thing about Bipin Rawat is that it took a CI expert to start the process of bringing about the most comprehensive reorganization of Indian military structure, since General Sundarji..

Do you intend to say that it was a deliberate ploy by India, to let the Chinese come in and occupy those positions?
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Wasn't it already on the cards of the government that cds was gonna happen. It wouldn't matter with or without Bipin Rawat. CDS was government led. Bipin rawat seemed clueless throughout the time to the point he was being questioned by the media. That's why I too doubt his seriousness....
 
The present incursion cannot be put on Modi or even solely on rawat. Modi is no military man and can act only on the advice of his generals.
Rawat was a coas for a couple of years, arguably he could have made some difference in our posture towards the Chinese but that cannot happen in a few years.
This is a systemic problem. Our army living on hope and trusting the goodwill of our adversaries. Hoping that the Pakistanis wont attack prior to kargil and with the Chinese its a recurring theme. And both parties are openly hostile, not as if they act suddenly.
We have a perpetually surprised army.
Might as well stay in the central command instead of deploying in mountains and ask the politicians to negotiate after any incursions.
Saves us money and unnecessary lives of our jawans.
 
Lolwa said:
See I know Pravin Sawhney is a shill and I know his bs AI war that he keep peddling. But his criticism for Bipin Rawat seems interesting because his CI speciality might have resulted in him not seeing the Chinese threat properly..
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He commanded the III Corps in the NE. One of his jobs was to deal with China.

Anyway, it's actually the army chief's job. And he was the commander of the entire Eastern Command.
Lolwa said:
Wasn't it already on the cards of the government that cds was gonna happen. It wouldn't matter with or without Bipin Rawat. CDS was government led. Bipin rawat seemed clueless throughout the time to the point he was being questioned by the media. That's why I too doubt his seriousness....
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He's referring to the reorganisation of the army's ORBAT, which is an internal matter of the army and was led by the CDS. That's separate from creating the CDS position, which is a political matter.
 
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maint1234 said:
The present incursion cannot be put on Modi or even solely on rawat. Modi is no military man and can act only on the advice of his generals.
Rawat was a coas for a couple of years, arguably he could have made some difference in our posture towards the Chinese but that cannot happen in a few years.
This is a systemic problem. Our army living on hope and trusting the goodwill of our adversaries. Hoping that the Pakistanis wont attack prior to kargil and with the Chinese its a recurring theme. And both parties are openly hostile, not as if they act suddenly.
We have a perpetually surprised army.
Might as well stay in the central command instead of deploying in mountains and ask the politicians to negotiate after any incursions.
Saves us money and unnecessary lives of our jawans.
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I doubt pakistan will attack India, dont think they want to give India a good excuse to hammer them. Any attack by pakistan will certainly draw condemnation from western powers not that pakistan bothers about it, western powers are only interested in India taking on china. They will try to hold back pakistan as much as possible. As such any pakistani intervention will lead to some intervention by UN or other powers.
 
jetray said:
I doubt pakistan will attack India, dont think they want to give India a good excuse to hammer them. Any attack by pakistan will certainly draw condemnation from western powers not that pakistan bothers about it, western powers are only interested in India taking on china. They will try to hold back pakistan as much as possible. As such any pakistani intervention will lead to some intervention by UN or other powers.
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Why did you quote me when your reply has nothing to do with what I have written ?
I have not said that Pakistan will attack us, though not attacking would be stupidity on their part if we are in a hot conflict with china.
India has made some emergency purchases but we are still living in the "hope" syndrome. No real signs of a large scale preparation for conflict. Its as if we hope that we won't be attacked again.

Chinese have basically murdered 20 of our unarmed men including a CO and we want to cut a peaceful withdrawal deal with them.
We are more worried what some armchair journalists writes about us.
 
Lolwa said:
Wasn't it already on the cards of the government that cds was gonna happen. It wouldn't matter with or without Bipin Rawat. CDS was government led. Bipin rawat seemed clueless throughout the time to the point he was being questioned by the media. That's why I too doubt his seriousness....
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Its not the establishment of CDS that I meant. .Its about IBGs and Theatre commands I was talking about..
 
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STEPHEN COHEN said:
We need these NAMICAS in large numbers.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1296822221554425858
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If it is Rajasthan desert in summer, seeker will be the constraint. I.e seeker will not be effective till the full range of missile. However in Himalayas, missile range shall be the constraints and not seeker range. No need to say that NAG will perform much better in Himalayas.
RISING SUN said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1298175877457555456
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To shoot down Chinese chopper.
 
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HariPrasad said:
If it is Rajasthan desert in summer, seeker will be the constraint. I.e seeker will not be effective till the full range of missile. However in Himalayas, missile range shall be the constraints and not seeker range. No need to say that NAG will perform much better in Himalayas.
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Right... the hot sand at around 55 degrees will make the seeker ignore an engine at a few hundred degrees.
 
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Jaymax said:
Right... the hot sand at around 55 degrees will make the seeker ignore an engine at a few hundred degrees.
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Slightly more complicated than that.

It's not so much an IR/IIR seeker's temperature differential sensitivity that is affected as much as its performance is degraded in high heat conditions without availability of cooling solutions or temperature resistant design, which is very difficult as far as I understand.. And almost all IR/IIR guided ATGMs rely on uncooled sensors.

At high temperatures IR/IIR sensor performance degrades very sharply to point of failure, unless they are designed to withstand heat and/or are cooled.

When we began putting the first of the T-90S through extensive operational tests, we noticed that the included Thales Catherine Thermal optics would fail very easily (as in get destroyed) and frequently in high temperature conditions. Now these costed upto to 90 lac per tank to equip and entire regiments lost all of their thermal optics in a matter of days. Eventually it was discovered that the only way to get these imagers/optics to work effectively was to cool down the sensors/system. Solution was to cool down the entire crew compartment of the tank using an AC. And this is how we managed to convince senior command of the need for ACs in T-90S. Yeah, command had resisted the introduction of ACs in tanks coz they would make the soldiers "lazy" and "too concentrated on comfort" and "less interested in combat" among others. Note that it was quite common for soldiers draped in all black to need medical assistance during extended periods of closed hatch situations, especially if tank was kept stationary. But I digress.

When people say 50 degrees, please understand that it is only the air temperature. The temperature inside metal boxes directly exposed to the Sun can go several tens of degrees higher to well over 70 degrees and higher, easily adequate for even hardened electronics to fail.
 
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Guys with the news of manpads being deployed just a few days after i had proposed, is someone watching my expert armchair posts ?
If yes , DISCLAIMER- i have no on field experience and all advise is purely theoretical (like chellani's) I take no responsibility.
Now the question of compensation for my advice, as unpaid advice loses its effectiveness.
 
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