That goes without saying. In case of a fight, we can hit them deep from those high positions.
There is no way we are going down from there.
We know it, then Chinese knows it, question is, what are they gonna do about it..
Line of Actual Control (LAC) : India & Tibet Border Updates
- Thread starter Shashank
- Start date
That goes without saying. In case of a fight, we can hit them deep from those high positions.
There is no way we are going down from there.
We know it, then Chinese knows it, question is, what are they gonna do about it..
Agreed, however you are still ignoring Pandemic. Is this the best time to wage an all-out war on a de-facto superpower without adequate preparations ?
FM Manekshaw would differ.
There's a time & place for everything & this is certainly not it. Hence, the limited objectives being pursued.
No, but it is the time to end this pattern of "Ain Shikar ke waqt Kutiya Hagasee". This perpetual unpreparedness. This lilly-liveredness in term of intent and implementation. This pathetic excuse of MIC (HAL, OFB et al) which is acting as a retirement home for favourites of local and central government. These stupid army requirements which (I shit you not!) asked for a rifle with TWO pistol grips and trigger. This absolute stupidity in negotiating treaties like that of 1972. This weird schizophrenia of non alignment and weird bipolar idea that we are poor-but-we-are-a-possible-world-power-so-we-won't-align-with-US-and-NATO. These acquisition and stupid procurement procedures that are longer than the time taken to even develop what is being procured (Yes people, in simpler terms we take longer to decide and order chapatti than to grow wheat!). These three century long development time for a machine that is outdated even before it is inducted. These college science projects masqurading as defence projects at DRDO.
None of these are as much rooted in poor economic as it is rooted in poor management and poor leadership.
As they say money does not change who you are, it just enlarges its. If we and our leadership are as stupid as we are, then more money will make things only worse.
To be honest going to war right now will be a decision which may lead to our defeat but in long terms it will be better for us. Why? Because it will push us to correct things. Like 1962 did. We will finally have defence capabilities for a 3 trillion strong economy and not that of Naruru of all places.
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To be honest going to war right now will be a decision which might lead to our defeat but in long terms it will be better for us. Why? Because it will push us to correct things. Like 1962 did. We will finally have defence capabilities for a 3 trillion strong economy and not that of Naruru of all places. War, much like any crisis, sifts husk from wheat. It forces people to put competence in power and it kills incompetence.
Remember, after 1962, Neheru died, that stupid Krishnamenon or something retired, the very-model-of-modern-Indian-major-generals were routed and cleared path of Sam Manekshaw who was actually competent.
With preparations if you are referring towards military preparations then I think that matter must solely be left for our armed forces. If we indeed are going to war then it couldn't be that we are militarily not prepared. After all which civilian leadership would go for war if Armed forces told it that they are not prepared.
And if you are hinting towards economic aspects then too we should go for war as our economy is in a dire need for a kickstart and a war could easily provide it one. It will generate the much needed demand essential for backtracking the economy. Our economy is in such a low state that from here it could only improve. It is always better to go for a war in bad economic condition to improve the economy instead of good economic condition to ruin it.
And if we take other factors into account, like present geo - political conditions and world support then too it is the most ideal time. We are currently enjoying strongest support from world and world is literally cheering for our any offensive action against China. I don't think we will get a chance like this again in near future.
So IMO it is best time to go for war.
In the end I would say that any war would result into loss of lives which are invaluable and irreplaceable loss. And I don't have any excuse against it. So if you are opposing the war on this ground then I don't have any answers.
Apart from 1st line I agree with everything.
This is one of the core reason due to which there would be WW3.
Who saying the firefighting took place with the Indian Army, the firefighting took place with SFF and that is under R&AW.
Also need to clear things, the ops was led by NSA/R&AW, Prime Minister is not happy with CDS and army chief, so PM given the charge of this OP to Ajit Doval.
And officially there are no casualties. There is no state funeral, for Govt there is always a plausible deniability, and as there is no casualty of Indian Army, why MoD report it?
You should better ask NSC about who are defacto incharge of SFF.
But such a Pakistani move might prompt a preemptive Indian armored assault in the sialkot sector..
The problem is people really think the Chinese are ahead of Americans. But it's just propaganda that is good for both Americans and Chinese but mainly the Americans. This Pentagon deliberately does this to secure more funds for operations and "projects" while the Chinese are deluded into thinking that they are actually close to the Americans. Most of the high tech American tech is not even on display for most of the time. The lax attitude on economic front and diplomatic front of the Americans should not be considered a lackadaisical attitude towards Military. That is what makes those people Americans. America is basically a war fighting corporation. They feed on it and have deliberately nurtured the Chinese as an enemy...
How have they got us beat though? I understand that a proper invasion will break an Indian defense. But the t72's are as capable as whatever the Pakistanis have in their infantry. There is not a major difference in terms of protection and the al Khalid's and t 80 can be taken out by atgm's and even t72 apfsds is enough for them. We are not facing invulnerable tanks with aps like ztz 99a. The vt 4 themselves are not as good in terms of protection. Our older armour can hold against with the major enemy tanks. It's the training that will make the difference for the tank crews.
The SFF is under the government of India, it’s very secretive: Claude Arpi
Tibetologist Claude Arpi on the origins of the Special Frontier Force, a secretive Tibetan paramilitary unit which may have been deployed to tackle Chinese aggression in Ladakh
Nothing can substitute their experience in fighting wars all over the world. It is ridiculous to think that some other country can have a go at US just bcos they have more machines. Most of the weapons US has now would have been built based on their experience gained from these wars. Only advantage china has is that US has not physically engaged with an enemy their size.
Serious Defense can start only if you acknowledge you have a enemy. We dilly dally on Pakistan which is openly hostile and every few years we have Lahore trips by our gullible PMs . Ok for us to be gullible, not the decision makers.
China has been pretty blatant about treating India as a threat since the 50s but we like to drink the cool aid to avoid any action.
Let's look at Chinese actions since 50s-
1. Occupation of aksai chin in the 50s .
2. 1962 war preceded by 3 years of planning. And fools here think India initiated the war with forward policy because some gora wrote a book.
3. Complete nuclear infrastructure built in Pakistan, if ppl think Pakistan built their bomb , they are very innocent.
4. Support to un designated terrorists based in Pakistan. A low hanging fruit which China could easily pluck to befriend India, but don't.
5. The arming of Pakistan aimed squarely at India.
6. Open support to Pakistani government in the UN against India, while holding so many talks with modi .
7. No real investment in Indian infrastructure. Bulk of their investment is in easily liquifiable indian companies . They have deliberately not exposed their capital in India because we are a opponent. More infrastructure investment in BD than India.
8. String of Pearl's policy all around India. Very blatant now.
How has India responded-
Recognized Tibet as part of China.
Minimum contact with Taiwan.
And best of all , in 2014 our trade imbalance was - 30 b usd with them , now its -60 b usd. We have opened up our market fully to them and they have not budged on our strengths like pharmaceutical exports.
The Government has to make a long term policy acknowledging that China is a implacable enemy and plan long term to face it. Everything flows from that. The Chinese in their forums are not discussing a border war with India but complete destruction of our infrastructure , to eliminate a competitor for a long time.
We can discuss peace all we want but keeping our eyes firmly shut and living on hope is a policy bound to fail.
China has been pretty blatant about treating India as a threat since the 50s but we like to drink the cool aid to avoid any action.
Let's look at Chinese actions since 50s-
1. Occupation of aksai chin in the 50s .
2. 1962 war preceded by 3 years of planning. And fools here think India initiated the war with forward policy because some gora wrote a book.
3. Complete nuclear infrastructure built in Pakistan, if ppl think Pakistan built their bomb , they are very innocent.
4. Support to un designated terrorists based in Pakistan. A low hanging fruit which China could easily pluck to befriend India, but don't.
5. The arming of Pakistan aimed squarely at India.
6. Open support to Pakistani government in the UN against India, while holding so many talks with modi .
7. No real investment in Indian infrastructure. Bulk of their investment is in easily liquifiable indian companies . They have deliberately not exposed their capital in India because we are a opponent. More infrastructure investment in BD than India.
8. String of Pearl's policy all around India. Very blatant now.
How has India responded-
Recognized Tibet as part of China.
Minimum contact with Taiwan.
And best of all , in 2014 our trade imbalance was - 30 b usd with them , now its -60 b usd. We have opened up our market fully to them and they have not budged on our strengths like pharmaceutical exports.
The Government has to make a long term policy acknowledging that China is a implacable enemy and plan long term to face it. Everything flows from that. The Chinese in their forums are not discussing a border war with India but complete destruction of our infrastructure , to eliminate a competitor for a long time.
We can discuss peace all we want but keeping our eyes firmly shut and living on hope is a policy bound to fail.
Since the Chinese have the initiative and we are reacting since may , your doubt is moot. We should just keep on preparing as best as we can, que sera sera.
Hijdon ki Fauj
"The PLA literally ran away without giving a fight"
Now where ever the PLA soldiers will spot the IA coming, it will remind them of the twisted necks of the 100+ dead PLA soldiers from the Galwan brawl
The legendary fear has been instilled in their minds which will be there in their psyche for a long time to come.
Things have dramatically changed since world war 2. 21st century warfare, specially which involves mighty nations, has the potential to cause 10,000 casualties in a single day on either side which no sane nations are ready for. Mighty nations prepare for war so that there will be no war. War is enforced on those who are not ready for it and if they try to run away from it then territorial or some other kind of loss is certain.
Did anyone noticed that Chinese defence minister's tone has turned defensive from offensive? Now he talks about defending Chinese territory.
Think about it this way. The complete boundary from Sir Creek to Arunachal Pradesh-Myanmar-Tibet trijunction is ONE enemy!!