Line of Actual Control (LAC) : India & Tibet Border Updates

Well, to fully defeat an enemy, will certainly take months, may be years. But when we talk of defeat, we talk in terms of failure of the enemy to mount an effective defence to check advance in their territory.

Please understand that holding of nodes is not exactly our priority - unless it significantly alters their ability to mount an effective defence.

In mountains, you can simply bypass resistance, as PLA did in 1962 in Arunachal.

His idea was IA will get stopped at the border and then it will take months to penetrate into Pakistan. Basically, PA will defend against Indian attacks successfully for many months. He gives the example of Kargil, and how it took a long time before IA could actually make progress.

His basic point was we need 40-50 divisions (forgot the actual number) to sucessfully mount an offensive into Pakistan and also achieve GoI's stubborn and unyielding interest in not losing land while at it. So the current strength of 27 divisions will not be enough to break their lines.
 
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As I had stated in reply to one of the posts, @Falcon comes out with the truth a bit late after confirming from his sources. I had very clearly stated that we are now dominating the ridgelines which have givem us these peaks. The ridgeline of F3 to F5 is different and the ridgeline of F6 to Sirijap are different with higher elevation. PLA occupied the spur of F4, we went way beyond it and occupied the complete ridgeline. When I was in NDA, we were told that if you climb up, maintain the height and do not come down to valleys to climb another spur as that may seem a more direct way but you will arrive on the height exhausted and unable to fight. So follow the contour, preserve your height and endurance even if offers longer route, but remain battle ready always. AND you will be shocked to know that time taken to follow the contour was always lesser than the time taken to go down the valley and climb up again on a different spur.

I think the Chinese have deployed 1 mechanised, 1 motorised (8x8) and multiple infantry brigades.

Also, any PAP deployment is unknown in open source. IIRC over a dozen PLA divisions were transferred over to the PAP since the 2000s. So you can't really consider manpower a problem for them.

For those who do not know, the Chinese ground forces are divided into the regular PLAGF supported by the defence budget and the PAP supported by the internal security budget. While the PLAGF's strength has reduced to less than a million, all that reduced strength has been sent into the PAP. So the PAP is about 1.5 million strong and many of those consist of PLAGF's earlier divisions. The mobile force within PAP is estimated to be 14 divisions strong. This is how they hide the true strength of their army, by calling them armed police. There's also a third category, under the PLAGF, which are reserve forces, and these are 500,000 to a million strong as well. There are other types of units as well, like Border Defence Guards similar to BSF, ITBP etc under the Ministry of Public Security. There's also the Bingtuan (they mainly perform economic activities, but perform combat duties as well, also the ones running the concentration camps in Xinjiang) and Militia (basic conscripts), these two collectively making over 10 million men. In simple words, China has 5 different armies for a grand total of anywhere between 12-15 million men. The actual strength of most of these forces are unknown, and most of them are put to work, so they pay their way as the CPC's exclusive labour force. And then, facing India, there are 40k troops in the TMD and 70k troops in the XMD. So the PLAGF is only a drop in the bucket under the CMC.
They inducted militia for battle on 15th June who killed Col. Babu. China has a long history of using irregulars for warfare than Pakistan. The largest casualties were suffered by this militia on 15th June night and therefore the number of casualties of PLA are reported as just about 45-48. But if you include the deaths of this militia, they are over 150. On 15th June our guys went in unprepared seeking revenge. Now they are well armed with trigger free and equipped with weapons which are far deadly than what they had on 15th.
Just like PLAGF, our exact count is hidden. What we have deployed is about 1.5 corps under Northern Command but we do not add the count of other forces which are part of these forces. just for your information, its not just SFF but even special ops command which has also deployed its forces in the area. They are operating as mixed formations within our revised OrBat.
 
As I had stated in reply to one of the posts, @Falcon comes out with the truth a bit late after confirming from his sources. I had very clearly stated that we are now dominating the ridgelines which have givem us these peaks. The ridgeline of F3 to F5 is different and the ridgeline of F6 to Sirijap are different with higher elevation. PLA occupied the spur of F4, we went way beyond it and occupied the complete ridgeline. When I was in NDA, we were told that if you climb up, maintain the height and do not come down to valleys to climb another spur as that may seem a more direct way but you will arrive on the height exhausted and unable to fight. So follow the contour, preserve your height and endurance even if offers longer route, but remain battle ready always. AND you will be shocked to know that time taken to follow the contour was always lesser than the time taken to go down the valley and climb up again on a different spur.

Have we reached IB ? Its not very far at Spangur so.
 
I think the Chinese have deployed 1 mechanised, 1 motorised (8x8) and multiple infantry brigades.

Also, any PAP deployment is unknown in open source. IIRC over a dozen PLA divisions were transferred over to the PAP since the 2000s. So you can't really consider manpower a problem for them.

For those who do not know, the Chinese ground forces are divided into the regular PLAGF supported by the defence budget and the PAP supported by the internal security budget. While the PLAGF's strength has reduced to less than a million, all that reduced strength has been sent into the PAP. So the PAP is about 1.5 million strong and many of those consist of PLAGF's earlier divisions. The mobile force within PAP is estimated to be 14 divisions strong. This is how they hide the true strength of their army, by calling them armed police. There's also a third category, under the PLAGF, which are reserve forces, and these are 500,000 to a million strong as well. There are other types of units as well, like Border Defence Guards similar to BSF, ITBP etc under the Ministry of Public Security. There's also the Bingtuan (they mainly perform economic activities, but perform combat duties as well, also the ones running the concentration camps in Xinjiang) and Militia (basic conscripts), these two collectively making over 10 million men. In simple words, China has 5 different armies for a grand total of anywhere between 12-15 million men. The actual strength of most of these forces are unknown, and most of them are put to work, so they pay their way as the CPC's exclusive labour force. And then, facing India, there are 40k troops in the TMD and 70k troops in the XMD. So the PLAGF is only a drop in the bucket under the CMC.
How would the PAP perform? From what I have seen they seem to have far more experience than PLA regulars..
 
How would the PAP perform? From what I have seen they seem to have far more experience than PLA regulars..

They are not equipped to the same level as regular PLAGF, especially when it comes to vehicles, but they are units that came out of the downsized PLA and thus infantry focused. The Mobile Force is basically ex-PLAGF with old equipment. And maybe the equipment is new as well, considering it's not expensive to equip infantry with China's large budget. I don't know how they are equipped now.
 
Right now what India has done to PLA is an offensive operation capturing territory on the other side of the LAC.. and use this as a bargaining chip.. As per all knowing Arzan Tarapore this is of no significance.. Maybe his masters were surprised by what India did to China here, and told him to spout some non sense..

Who told you this? There is no crossing of the LAC as per our claim line.
 
Have we reached IB ? Its not very far at Spangur so.
We have reached IB in south PT. And we have also PROBABLY hit IB in Chumar/Demchok area.

How would the PAP perform? From what I have seen they seem to have far more experience than PLA regulars..
15th June ko dekh liya na.
Who told you this? There is no crossing of the LAC as per our claim line.
Our claim line is our IB and we have not crossed it but we now dominate areas beyond our IB.
 
Oh nice :


I wish the Navy sails through the Taiwan Strait. The amount of burn that would cause :


Another map :


EhAMpQ0VkAcGjxZ.jpg
 
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They are not. In terms of capability and pure tonnage the Americans ships far outclass the PLAN. They have nothing close to zumwalt nor do they have something on the level of ford class carriers.
I could cite multiple report of Pentagon which expresses concern on how USN might fare in a war in SCS. But you will term them as Pentagon's propaganda for getting additional budget. So it is futile. But it doesn't mean that these reports have no substance. While I do agree that PLAN is still behind in many areas in comparison to USN but they also have edge in some others. And whatever they have is enough for winning a war in SCS. Which is enough for China for now. Remember it is US which is current superpower and hence onus is on it to defeat China in any theatre. While China only needs to defeat it in SCS to claim the beginning of new era.
The reason the PLAN has more ships now is because they are mass producing frigates and light destroyers. The bigger class ships are slowly being made but are not equal in terms of any of the American ships. Those type 56 and type 52 can't operate beyond the second Island chain. They are meant for the defence of the Chinese mainland and assisting in the invasion of Taiwan. They become useless in an IOR context . The PLAN is still not a blue water navy because it's focus has been to dominate the SCS. They don't have any carrier experience. They have way more ships than the people they can train properly so they fall in the same trap the PLA has fallen which is recruiting virgin teenagers as sailors.
The PLA will only get dangerous in the next 10 years that I agree and could surpass the Amreekis but right now they are in no shape or form to match the Americans in capability, experience or training.
So you too accept it. Now just give it a thought that what would be best course of action for US. Destroy PLAN with the help of allies now or wait for it to become a much bigger threat and fight the inevitable war in future and sustain much more loss. Answer lies here.
 
@Aurora

The Chinese had superior ships as compared to the Japanese and still they lost. Something that holds true still in the Sino-Indian context.View attachment 17556

This is still stated for the PLAN in modern news. So the results would be interesting this time..
This is still relevant for the PLA in modern times
View attachment 17557
Just replace low pay to child emperor phenomenon and opium addiction to compulsive masturbation...
I agree that soldiers are weakest link in PLA. But with advancement in technology the modern naval war mostly comprise of spectating a screen and pushing some buttons. Which they could do. And their incompetence in their job could be compensated by modern techs like heavy use of AI in warships, cutting edge A2/AD system etc.
 
J 10 & J11 are junk. Su 30 MKKare better and Su35s are top class.
No, J10C, J11B and J16 are more advance than Su27 and Su30 mkk. For more info you could see the replies of my question
I request the experts on this forum to compare the flankers of Chinese AF with our own, also with other fighters. Any info about latest strength of Chinese AF would be much appreciated. Thankyou.
 
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We have reached IB in south PT. And we have also PROBABLY hit IB in Chumar/Demchok area.


15th June ko dekh liya na.

Our claim line is our IB and we have not crossed it but we now dominate areas beyond our IB.

What will happen if we cross IB? China doesnt hesitate one bit to cross any IB.
 


More cloak and dagger. There are two ways this can go -

a) India can play along knowing fully well that the discussion that happens will have zero effect on Chinese behaviour on ground - most likely.

b) We can decline to meet and set a precondition
for the meeting - viz. they have to move back beyond a point before our defence ministry starts its dialogue again with Chinese counterpart - less likely .

Interesting times ahead.


Twitter has become the playground for the psyops, information warfare -


But this, this really cracked me up.
This is some different level sh*t 😂😂😂
 
More cloak and dagger. There are two ways this can go -

a) India can play along knowing fully well that the discussion that happens will have zero effect on Chinese behaviour on ground - most likely.

b) We can decline to meet and set a precondition
for the meeting - viz. they have to move back beyond a point before our defence ministry starts its dialogue again with Chinese counterpart - less likely .

Interesting times ahead.

Cant we simply refuse the meeting? Saying we are not interested currently.