Line of Actual Control (LAC) : India & Tibet Border Updates

Nilgiri said:
Previous status quo is no good. There has to be "dont trust" + "verify" for a very long time (across multiple political dispensations) now...its really that simple.

I mean CCP even wanted to change the status quo force basing to be geo-based rather than time based (as it was done/understood before). It shows a clear progression in their arrogance...and escalation in what they want to achieve here.

Arrogance should never sit well and should never be taken on any chin....not with body count on our side like this (whatever it was on their side means nothing given that's on them).

Whatever deal India works out has to be one where there is an actual non-presence of permanent/near PLA hard assets to effect any change in the area, or its a bad deal. This is because this particular area is simply a far more important area strategically to India compared to China (with its heartland much further away)...given close presence of one other adversary.

If no deal worked out, simply have to bunker down like Siachen...and salami slice right back when the opportunities come our way under a sound planning that should be further developed with time.

i.e The whole area is undefined now and we have perception problems with basically all of it....you opened the genie out of bottle, you put it back in.

=========

At this juncture I would like to thank all thread partcipants thus far, I am not a twitter-follower kind of guy.... so the updates and convo here have been good to follow (whatever I agree/disagree on), its one of my first stops to get a better update on things (alongside BR, Nitin etc) compared to generic loud boorish/vague media.
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IMO, it's impossible for the PLA to vacate these areas now. And I doubt we are going to back off either. So eyeball to eyeball is going to end up being the new normal. Deal or no deal, if we are eyeball to eyeball, then I don't think there will be much room for salami slicing for either side without starting a shooting war.

We are headed for a situation where instead of banner drills, we are going to have violent confrontations. So everything's changed.
 
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randomradio said:
IMO, it's impossible for the PLA to vacate these areas now. And I doubt we are going to back off either. So eyeball to eyeball is going to end up being the new normal. Deal or no deal, if we are eyeball to eyeball, then I don't think there will be much room for salami slicing for either side without starting a shooting war.

We are headed for a situation where instead of banner drills, we are going to have violent confrontations. So everything's changed.
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There are few question marks right now -
a) What is the end objective that has been defined for our forces?

b) Given the current state, and post the farce of a meeting between our RM and the Chinese counterpart, what is the political objective?

c) Does and (a) and (b) align?

I am quite sure that our army will not want and like to back down from a position of strategic and tactical importance and squander the advantage that we have gained over the Chinese.

Now, it needs the political will and the support of the government. Since the 29/30 of August, our army manoeuvres have been done with the intention of gaining positional advantage over the Chinese such that in case a shooting war starts we will have the benefit of being at the top.

Another objective was to understand the threshold of the Chinese. If they were serious, they would have started the offensive by now, but they didn't do that. This proves that China is not keen on fighting on the ground.
It is up to our leadership both civilian and military to utilise this to the fullest and push back China as far as possible and the process make it impossible for them to save face.

The ambiguity of the lac can be fully used to our advantage. We no longer need the status quo ante, we need to continue to change the status quo in our favour in the same way the Chinese have been doing for so many years.
If China wants, it can start a face off, but their behaviour so far suggests that they are more inclined to show off and put on an act of a superior force than actually fight.
 
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Defc0n said:
There are few question marks right now -
a) What is the end objective that has been defined for our forces?

b) Given the current state, and post the farce of a meeting between our RM and the Chinese counterpart, what is the political objective?

c) Does and (a) and (b) align?

I am quite sure that our army will not want and like to back down from a position of strategic and tactical importance and squander the advantage that we have gained over the Chinese.

Now, it needs the political will and the support of the government. Since the 29/30 of August, our army manoeuvres have been done with the intention of gaining positional advantage over the Chinese such that in case a shooting war starts we will have the benefit of being at the top.

Another objective was to understand the threshold of the Chinese. If they were serious, they would have started the offensive by now, but they didn't do that. This proves that China is not keen on fighting on the ground.
It is up to our leadership both civilian and military to utilise this to the fullest and push back China as far as possible and the process make it impossible for them to save face.

The ambiguity of the lac can be fully used to our advantage. We no longer need the status quo ante, we need to continue to change the status quo in our favour in the same way the Chinese have been doing for so many years.
If China wants, it can start a face off, but their behaviour so far suggests that they are more inclined to show off and put on an act of a superior force than actually fight.
Click to expand...
yes, chinese are simply probing us. It was out-rightly stupid on our part to even have talks with them. Those *censored**** took the opportunity to issue childish statements. By agreeing to talks we are actually making the talks held by forces on the ground totally meaningless. Chinese will try to wear the civilian leadership out by keep engaging in meaning less talks and try to push their agenda. Indian political leadership should stop looking for an so called face saving exit or manufacture useless statements that will only encourage & reiterate to the chinese that their plan is working.
shaxm said:
Whats going on here?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1302360506494316546
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this way they dont appear on radar totally stealth.
 
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Defc0n said:
There are few question marks right now -
a) What is the end objective that has been defined for our forces?

b) Given the current state, and post the farce of a meeting between our RM and the Chinese counterpart, what is the political objective?

c) Does and (a) and (b) align?

I am quite sure that our army will not want and like to back down from a position of strategic and tactical importance and squander the advantage that we have gained over the Chinese.

Now, it needs the political will and the support of the government. Since the 29/30 of August, our army manoeuvres have been done with the intention of gaining positional advantage over the Chinese such that in case a shooting war starts we will have the benefit of being at the top.

Another objective was to understand the threshold of the Chinese. If they were serious, they would have started the offensive by now, but they didn't do that. This proves that China is not keen on fighting on the ground.
It is up to our leadership both civilian and military to utilise this to the fullest and push back China as far as possible and the process make it impossible for them to save face.

The ambiguity of the lac can be fully used to our advantage. We no longer need the status quo ante, we need to continue to change the status quo in our favour in the same way the Chinese have been doing for so many years.
If China wants, it can start a face off, but their behaviour so far suggests that they are more inclined to show off and put on an act of a superior force than actually fight.
Click to expand...

I don't believe the Chinese are stupid enough to go to war with India without finishing their air force modernisation first. They likely plan on India being the benchmark to beat before they compete with the US. In case they feel they are struggling with India, then they get about 10 years to fix whatever deficiencies they have identified before they actively challenge the US. And this is probably just a minor part of what they are planning for the LAC.
 
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jetray said:
yes, chinese are simply probing us. It was out-rightly stupid on our part to even have talks with them. Those *censored**** took the opportunity to issue childish statements. By agreeing to talks we are actually making the talks held by forces on the ground totally meaningless. Chinese will try to wear the civilian leadership out by keep engaging in meaning less talks and try to push their agenda. Indian political leadership should stop looking for an so called face saving exit or manufacture useless statements that will only encourage & reiterate to the chinese that their plan is working.
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The talks were for our advantage. We needed time to move our troops in response. Without talks, the Chinese would have held a significant advantage had hostilities broken out right from the beginning.
 
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