Line of Actual Control (LAC) : India & Tibet Border Updates

@vstol Jockey 's Panipat analogy again.

62 also began as a series of moves and countermoves before Mao fooled Nehru. Lets hope our guy can match Winnie the pooh in this game.
The Panipat analogy works when you've bested your enemy but haven't annihilated them. Like in 1971. 1962 was all bluster by Nehru. He emaciated the armed forces & lived to regret it . Actually not even that. He went & promptly had a stroke after the debacle changing the narrative in the people's eyes from being the prime culprit to the object of sympathy - his condition owing itself to shock due to Chinese perfididy.

Hope Bania no 1 & 2 take adequate note of it . If you mess up & still desire a place in the heart of countless of your country men, don't forget to have an attack or a stroke.
 
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We can take out a significant portion of the regiment of S-400 in a saturation strike...

Our focus should be A 400 radar. Take it out and system is useless. We should try to target S400 radar with Brahmos. If we can go near S400 under mountain cover, we can use glide bombs and our own runway denial bomb to target S400. I am sure that our strategic planners must be discussing with Israeli experts to neutralize S400. @vstol Jockey sir can always throw some light on it.
 
The Panipat analogy works when you've bested your enemy but haven't annihilated them. Like in 1971. 1962 was all bluster by Nehru. He emaciated the armed forces & lived to regret it . Actually not even that. He went & promptly had a stroke after the debacle changing the narrative in the people's eyes from being the prime culprit to the object of sympathy - his condition owing itself to shock due to Chinese perfididy.

Hope Bania no 1 & 2 take adequate note of it . If you mess up & still desire a place in the heart of countless of your country men, don't forget to have an attack or a stroke.

The panipat analogy was for elaborate sequence of moves and countermoves without breaking the stalemate.

The Gujju gang on the top will slide the blame to the MEA, the army while quietly hiding the point that border patrol was under Home ministry when the crisis broke out.
Our focus should be A 400 radar. Take it out and system is useless. We should try to target S400 radar with Brahmos. If we can go near S400 under mountain cover, we can use glide bombs and our own runway denial bomb to target S400. I am sure that our strategic planners must be discussing with Israeli experts to neutralize S400. @vstol Jockey sir can always throw some light on it.

Do you think the chinks will be busy frying pakodas? Why will they not launch counterstrikes at our own airfields, radar posts and air defense installations.

Its increasingly likely that Modi and Co. are banking on low level moves like the ones we saw in late Aug.

Enough to take tactical advantage, keep the clowns in Republic TV happy while not risking a big escalation. Thing is - with all the armed soldiers there mishaps are a real risk.
 
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Our focus should be A 400 radar. Take it out and system is useless. We should try to target S400 radar with Brahmos. If we can go near S400 under mountain cover, we can use glide bombs and our own runway denial bomb to target S400. I am sure that our strategic planners must be discussing with Israeli experts to neutralize S400. @vstol Jockey sir can always throw some light on it.
Too much is being made out of S-400 radars of PLAAF. M2k, Su-30MKI and Rafale can do real low level interdiction in valleys. They will stay low and fly on automode, pullup to fire standoff weapons and again dip down to avoid being intercepted by S-400. Way back in 1991-92, I did valley flying in an aircraft as old as Hunter. I know what happens when you use terrain masking. It is the best form of stealth, even EO/IR sensors can't pick you up.
 
Guns ready and powder dry. Come on Chinks. We are waiting.

They wont. They dont need the bad PR. IA posturing makes it risky. Even if they win eventually it will be really messy and attrition heavy. The PLA will be the army that got a bloody nose from India. It doesnt look good on the resume if you hope to pip USA for the top slot.

They will wait out the winter and sniff again next spring.
 
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They wont. They dont need the bad PR. IA posturing makes it risky. Even if they win eventually it will be really messy and attrition heavy. The PLA will be the army that got a bloody nose from India. It doesnt look good on the resume if you hope to pip USA for the top slot.

They will wait out the winter and sniff again next spring.
They will come and also very soon. Their superiority of logistics is a balloon which will be burst by IAF within minutes of the first shot being fired. How do we calculate logistics? distance from the main supply point to final area and that includes terrain. Tough terrain but shorter supply route and air supply compared to easy terrain with no air supply and longer supply route which can be choked?
Who wins? Answer lies in the battles of WW2. Especially Battle of Stalingrad.
 
The Panipat analogy works when you've bested your enemy but haven't annihilated them. Like in 1971. 1962 was all bluster by Nehru. He emaciated the armed forces & lived to regret it . Actually not even that. He went & promptly had a stroke after the debacle changing the narrative in the people's eyes from being the prime culprit to the object of sympathy - his condition owing itself to shock due to Chinese perfididy.

Hope Bania no 1 & 2 take adequate note of it . If you mess up & still desire a place in the heart of countless of your country men, don't forget to have an attack or a stroke.
Pardon my ignorance but who are Baniya no.1 & 2?
 
Too much is being made out of S-400 radars of PLAAF. M2k, Su-30MKI and Rafale can do real low level interdiction in valleys. They will stay low and fly on automode, pullup to fire standoff weapons and again dip down to avoid being intercepted by S-400. Way back in 1991-92, I did valley flying in an aircraft as old as Hunter. I know what happens when you use terrain masking. It is the best form of stealth, even EO/IR sensors can't pick you up.
S400 is not the only AD system.. And like @Jaymax said, even chinks can do that... Are there AD systems that can take out terrain masking aircraft?
Wasn't your original id Porky kicker? Why did you change such a beautiful & original username?
Mods didn't appreciate ir
Wasn't your original id Porky kicker? Why did you change such a beautiful & original username?
Porky eater actually.
 
They will come and also very soon. Their superiority of logistics is a balloon which will be burst by IAF within minutes of the first shot being fired. How do we calculate logistics? distance from the main supply point to final area and that includes terrain. Tough terrain but shorter supply route and air supply compared to easy terrain with no air supply and longer supply route which can be choked?
Who wins? Answer lies in the battles of WW2. Especially Battle of Stalingrad.
Haha yes. Even before reading this of your post i was comparing the situation in Ladakh with that of Stalingrad. On the bank of river Volga. And here we have lake Pangong tso. Winters are coming. Russian winters played a key role in the first defeat of Nazis. Will we see same thing happening with Pla? Or will this be other way around? Only time will tell.
 
Lol when the fuking Indian diplomats ( bureaucrats ) at MEA / GoI / CSG got involved it was a foregone conclusion .

The ba*tards are only good at garnering votes for useless things like commission on the status of women. Reminiscence of a cur who is happy with scraps while having the airs of pedigree dog.
 
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Lol when the fuking Indian diplomats ( bureaucrats ) at MEA / GoI / CSG got involved it was a foregone conclusion .

The ba*tards are only good at garnering votes for useless things like commission on the status of women. Reminiscence of a cur who is happy with scraps while having the airs of pedigree dog.

Its not over yet. GoI already knows by now that any agreement and signed papers have no meanings when it comes to China. So they can anything and continue doing whatever they want on ground. Maybe China will get a taste of its own medicine for good.
 
Lol when the fuking Indian diplomats ( bureaucrats ) at MEA / GoI / CSG got involved it was a foregone conclusion .

The ba*tards are only good at garnering votes for useless things like commission on the status of women. Reminiscence of a cur who is happy with scraps while having the airs of pedigree dog.
Once I tried arguing this with a certain member of this forum.

I am now of opinion that there are three power centres or Tridev if you call them in India : Politicians who depend upon beaurocrats in Delhi who in turn depend upon politicians for career progressing. Business who finance the elections of politicians and then expect a return in terms of favourable policies. This NBB (Neta Babu Businessmen) are the real deciders of India and every event needs to be looked form their lens. If something can harm one of them, then it will face serious opposition. If something favours them, it will be promoted.

With this model, all the current events are governed by the interests and (in)capabilities of the above Triumverate. Will a conflict with China help anyone of the above?

Neta : No, unless an assured victory.
Babu: No, it means more work!
Businessman: No, because it means less cheap goods to sell.

So Indian response to China can never be resolute. It will fall down at one point or another. Military or diplomatic or operational. Somewhere it will fall flat.

Its essentially incompetence of South Block (Neta and Babu nexus) and non-benfits to Businessman.

And then we have folks in this forum who recite how we do not have enough capital invested in military or world powers do not align with our actions etc etc etc. All the capital in the world cannot help you when you do not want to help yourself. Thats the reality. Thats why our negotiation is shit. You make it so that it becomes in interest of the Triumverate or harms atleast one of the Moorty or Trimoorty and that thing will happen. Fast.

Out of these three, worst are Babus. They are hidden and seldom face any repercussions of their activities.

This Trimoorty became the central figure I think during 90s. Previously it was Neta + Babu.
 
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Haha yes. Even before reading this of your post i was comparing the situation in Ladakh with that of Stalingrad. On the bank of river Volga. And here we have lake Pangong tso. Winters are coming. Russian winters played a key role in the first defeat of Nazis. Will we see same thing happening with Pla? Or will this be other way around? Only time will tell.
Naziz had similar problems as will be faced by PLA in Ladakh. very long supplylines which can be cut off. The repeated harrassment which the red army inflicted on German 6th Army, forced them to delay their final assault repeatedly which gave the soviets time to build up their defences and counter the Germans.
The present status quo suits us. We must maintain it otherwise we will be giving away whole lot of gains along Kailash range for just patrolling rights between F4&F8.
 
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COPY PASTED FROM BHARAT RAKSHAK

They had a Discussion with Retired Colonel S. Dinny

_______________________________________________

We had invited Col. Dinny for a presentation. This is what he said. Very comprehensive and good analysis too.

PRC's Gain
  1. Gained some territory in North Bank of Pangong Tso. 8Kms between Finger 8 and Finger 4, avg. 3 Kms width. So, 24 Sq Kms. May be slightly reduced now if they have gone back to Finger 5
  2. Changed the status-quo along the LAC all of a sudden with induction of troops and heavy weaponry. This wasn't expected by us
  3. They have possibly dragged us into a prolonged employment
  4. Inflicted casualties on us, 20 bravehearts.
Our Gain
  1. The notion of India standing upto coercion by PLA is now widely acknowledged everywhere
  2. We are occupying certain strategic heights on the Kailash Range which gives us tactical and strategic advantage
  3. We have inflicted casualties on PLA
  4. Some attempt at rectification of trade imbalance is going on even if not much, which wouldn't have been attemptedd otherwise
  5. Border infrastructure is getting a sharper focus now as a result
  6. There is a paradigm shift, even among ordinary people, from Pak-centric to China-centric
  7. Some issues like Tibet or Quad which were taboo are getting more accepted
  8. Our relationship with the US has got closer militarily
PRC's Losses
  1. A permanent scar in its relationship with a big country like India. It is not going to be BAU henceforth. Our military has lost trust.
  2. On the world stage, this is certainly a loss of face for China
  3. PLA's Moldo Garrison is now being dominated by IA
  4. Loss of PLA lives
  5. Economic impact
Our Losses
  1. Loss of some territory at Pangong Tso
  2. Loss of precious lives of our soldiers
  3. Troop mobilization leading to economic impact
  4. Threat of a live LAC from now on {LoCisation of LAC}
Why did PRC do this?
  1. Was it for territorial gain? Only 24 Sq Kms belies that. Depsang is not occupied by PLA though they stop patrolling. We have other means of doing patrolling there.
  2. Was it for emphasizing their 1959 Claim Line? Not true. They are already ahead of their claim line
  3. Chinese vulnerability? PLA doesn't feel vulnerable at all, they have enough buffer, we do not have much means of recapturing those areas. G219 interception is impossible
  4. A reaction to abolition of Art 370/35A? China knows we are not its threat in Ladakh. Even Pakistan has not moved its strike corps.
  5. Two-front war? PLA would not do that because it would be a dent on its image as a 'superpower' especially when engaged with the US on that score.
  6. Is it to threaten DSDBO road? Cannot be because they are not on the ridges at Galwan to do so. They have now even gone back from there.
  7. Was it to stop India-US proximity? PRC would have known that a military threat like this would only bring India-US even closer. Cannot be the reason
  8. Was it to convert LAC into the LoC as in our western front? India can easily take this cost though it is an unnecessary burden. In Siachen we spend Rs. 5 Crores a day. Neither India nor China can occupy the entire 800 Kms of ridge line, unlike in LoC. There is no terrorist infiltration unlike in LoC. If PLA occupies some heights, then we will do the same and the game is endless.
  9. Is it to show to the rest of the world that 'China has arrived'? May be, we may not know.
But, there could be a different and more plausible reason for what had happened and that is the NWMA (Non-War Military Activities) doctrine of the PLA. This is to use coercive threats below the threshold of a war to achieve its very tactical objectives.

The May 5/6 clashes in the north bank of Pangong Tso were violent. Video footages showed the Indian troops capturing a PLA humvee and even a PLA soldier pinned to the ground, possibly died later on. Casualty on the PLA side possibly happened and they wanted to 'teach us a lesson'. So, they came in a big way into Pangong Tso with diversion/support tactics in Gogra & Galwan. The Galwan incident looks like it was unplanned. The non-removal of the tent there by the PLA for whatever reason and the resulting incidents ultimately changed the whole scenario. The Chinese never expected the quick Indian counter-attack in Galwan, mobilization and the international focus and reaction. They now want to give a 'strategic twist' to their 'tactical miscalculation' by referring to Article 370, UT etc. At the same time, they know it is a military matter between the two armies. {So, China both tactically & strategically stupid?}

We cannot rule out another Galwan-like incident as the armies are in close contact range. We may see newer areas of patrolling as a result of these events. The old CBMs have broken down and a new one is now needed.

As regards the Punjabi-songs, he said the IA also does psyops but in different ways. For example, the towering, well-built, mustachioed Rajput Regmt. soldiers give the Chinese a complex and they are employed deliberately to do so.

As for mining, he said that the mine that exploded and killed an SFF soldier was a 1962 vintage when retreating Indian troops threw mines and strewn them all over without planting them carefully. Wind & shifting gravel have taken them all over and these dangerous areas are marked.