Line of Actual Control (LAC) : India & Tibet Border Updates

Desi Lover said:
From the discussions here, it seems India will not be able to hold China if a war breaks out. Randomradio is known for him optimism but here for the first time I sensed concern and to some extent hopelessness in his post.
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We can hold China, even defeat them considering the significant tactical advantages we have gained since August-end. But we will suffer unnecessary losses and casualties that can be avoided by only inducting some more of the air defence technology we already operate. It's also quite embarrassing to get killed the way the Armenians and Azeris are getting killed, since you are going to carry that on your back for a long time.

Take the Akash-1 SAM deployed at the border by the army. They are likely not very effective against small drones when under ECM attack. So some types of weapons will get through and kill our stuff on the ground. We need the Akash Prime to compensate, but orders are yet to be placed for the army and yet to be delivered to the air force. Which means, some threats will also get through the Akash defences even at air bases protected by Akash 1.
 
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Jaymax said:
Am I the only one who thinks drone swarms as a real thing are years away.

Drones are not agile. It will be a turkey shoot. For drones to deploy a meaningful weapon, their size has to increase (unless you are going kamikaze)

If you make them big, the propulsion system costs go up more if you armor them. Making them in numbers to go on one way missions isnt a great idea.

Lastly having a computer controlled super agile drone is possible. But when you send 500 in a swarm, the effort to keep them agile increases greatly. Enough to overwhelm ground controllers and prohibitively costly to put such AI Onboard.
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We have the Harop, which has extremely long endurance and does kamikaze attacks. Very effective. We have well over 100 of these drones and have ordered more.

Can they can swarm? It should be possible, but they have kept any such information classified.
 
randomradio said:
That's going to get very, very expensive, since AAMs are very, very expensive.

What we need is extremely cheap ways to bring down drones. The cheapest would be DEWs, while the next most cheap would be SAMs like the Iron Dome.

The Israeli Iron Beam has already been deployed as of this year, so it would make sense to introduce it alongside our SPYDERs for now. Preferably it is integrated with MRSAM and Akash as well. This would allow the protection of air bases and C&C nodes.

The army has planned for next gen tank APS with DEW to be integrated with some anti-PGM and anti-drone capability as a last line of defence for the FRCV. Similarly, the FRCV's main IFV will likely come with a sufficiently large cannon that can provide CIWS capability at longer ranges than the APS. Above that would be SPAD-GMS+DEW providing air defence at short range, all of it operating under the SRSAM/QRSAM and MRSAM. This will give the army a 5-tier air defence system. Right now we only have a 2-tier system and it's largely obsolete. And the two new tiers are specifically needed to counter small drones at extremely low altitudes, apart from helicopters, ATGMs etc.

Our lack of sufficient modern air defences is the reason why I've been saying that our best case for a war with China is 2023 and beyond. The IAF's air defence modernistion is still incomplete. Right now, we have made other areas vulnerable in the process of fortifying Ladakh.
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Do we have Iron domes? There has been a deal of 2 billion$ with the Israelis but it has been shoved under the carpet.
Screenshot_20201001-010621.jpg

Is there any news of us procuring this now??
If this deal happened we would already have some number of iron dome systems.

Found the original source

Israel, India Sign $2 Billion ‘Iron Dome’ Deal | ASHARQ AL-AWSAT English Archive 2005 -2017

eng-archive.aawsat.com eng-archive.aawsat.com
 
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Jaymax said:
Swarms are years away. I speak from experience having directly worked with these. You make a swarm it will come in dumb with zero agility and it will be a Turkey shoot.
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Harop is entirely human controlled, so the swarming is more to do with whether the Harops can communicate with each other like fighter jets or not, for cooperative attacks. I'm not referring to an AI-led swarms, which is definitely years away, perhaps years being an underestimation.
 
Lolwa said:
Do we have Iron domes? There has been a deal of 2 billion$ with the Israelis but it has been shoved under the carpet.
View attachment 17970
Is there any news of us procuring this now??
If this deal happened we would already have some number of iron dome systems.

Found the original source

Israel, India Sign $2 Billion ‘Iron Dome’ Deal | ASHARQ AL-AWSAT English Archive 2005 -2017

eng-archive.aawsat.com eng-archive.aawsat.com
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That link is actually referring to the MRSAM deal. We haven't shown interest in Iron Dome yet. Especially since our primary AD needs are still unfulfilled.
 
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randomradio said:
That's going to get very, very expensive, since AAMs are very, very expensive.

What we need is extremely cheap ways to bring down drones. The cheapest would be DEWs, while the next most cheap would be SAMs like the Iron Dome.

The Israeli Iron Beam has already been deployed as of this year, so it would make sense to introduce it alongside our SPYDERs for now. Preferably it is integrated with MRSAM and Akash as well. This would allow the protection of air bases and C&C nodes.

The army has planned for next gen tank APS with DEW to be integrated with some anti-PGM and anti-drone capability as a last line of defence for the FRCV. Similarly, the FRCV's main IFV will likely come with a sufficiently large cannon that can provide CIWS capability at longer ranges than the APS. Above that would be SPAD-GMS+DEW providing air defence at short range, all of it operating under the SRSAM/QRSAM and MRSAM. This will give the army a 5-tier air defence system. Right now we only have a 2-tier system and it's largely obsolete. And the two new tiers are specifically needed to counter small drones at extremely low altitudes, apart from helicopters, ATGMs etc.

Our lack of sufficient modern air defences is the reason why I've been saying that our best case for a war with China is 2023 and beyond. The IAF's air defence modernistion is still incomplete. Right now, we have made other areas vulnerable in the process of fortifying Ladakh.
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When did we buy Iron Domes? If we do have them, can you post some pictures of them in service with us?
 
Killbot said:
When did we buy Iron Domes? If we do have them, can you post some pictures of them in service with us?
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I didn't say anything about the Iron Dome being in Indian inventory. If you are confused about the Iron Beam being deployed, that's in Israel, not India.
 
https://twitter.com/x/status/1311502789344989185
Sanglamorre said:
Will I get banned if I say Cuckshankar?
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Have you read about What RONALD REAGAN used to.say

" Talk Politely but Carry a BIG Stick "

This was originally said by Roosevelt but Reagan repeated it during the height of the Cold War

Words dont matter In International Geopolitical affairs , Only your Capabilities matter

Even Pakistanis keep abusing India
on a 24/ 7 basis

But we treat them like Barking Dogs
 
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Arvind said:
That's the problem. Barking dog killed three of ours, but we will treat them like "Barking Dogs".

You guys have great capabilities in finding strength in most cowardly behaviors.
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That is the strength of Pakistan
They Absorb casualties. WITHOUT CRYING

War means casualties
It is not a game of cricket

Who says that there wont be retaliation

Pakistan will also loose soldiers
theprint.in

Modi govt removes spending cap on defence for Q3 amid tensions with China

Removal of expense cap means defence ministry, which is processing over 100 emergency procurement contracts, can go ahead with spending without permission from finance ministry.
theprint.in
 
STEPHEN COHEN said:
That is the strength of Pakistan
They Absorb casualties. WITHOUT CRYING

War means casualties
It is not a game of cricket

Who says that there wont be retaliation

Pakistan will also loose soldiers
theprint.in

Modi govt removes spending cap on defence for Q3 amid tensions with China

Removal of expense cap means defence ministry, which is processing over 100 emergency procurement contracts, can go ahead with spending without permission from finance ministry.
theprint.in
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Dude, this is not war but making our soldiers as cannon fodder. It seems you are good to have our soldiers die if they also keep losing on their men.

Are we meeting any objective here?

A country shelling on our post inside our territory, killing our soldiers, help me understand why it should not be treated as an ACT OF WAR?
 
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Arvind said:
Dude, this is not war but making our soldiers as cannon fodder. It seems you are good to have our soldiers die if they also keep losing on their men.

Are we meeting any objective here?

A country shelling on our post inside our territory, killing our soldiers, help me understand why it should not be treated as an ACT OF WAR?
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We cannot go to a large scale war with Either Pakistan or China because of our SOCIETAL MINDSET

We cannot initiate a conflict

Our country and society will Only Accept Casualties in a Defensive Act of War
Like in Kargil

So people who talk of POK including Modi , are not sure how the people will react to casualties for Capturing Territories

Therefore we are sitting in Ladakh instead of opening fire

Earlier we did not even retaliate to Pakistani aggression on LOC

Today at least we are acting pre emptively and causing casualties to them

Wars are ultimately fought by Societies and Nations

Here US , Russia , China and Pakistan
All have an advantage unlike India
 
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