good faith? seriously are we running some charity or country.
Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me
Line of Actual Control (LAC) : India & Tibet Border Updates
- Thread starter Shashank
- Start date
Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me
1. These bureaucrats have slowed weapons procurement so much that most of the armed forces are now fighting using antiques from museums. Why are we still flying Mig-21? Because beaurocrats could not move their arses to negotiate a deal in more than 8 years.
2. These bureaucrats are the ones who set decide nuts and bolts of the treaties signed. Why did India signed a treaty with China regarding "LAC" without even agreeing to a common definition of LAC? Because some moron in beauracy was too impatient to produce a treaty without forcing counterparty to even agree on same definition of terms.
3. Balakot was a so called "intelligence driven mission", another word for beaurocrats driven mission. Why were IAF planes not allowed to shoot PAF planes when they are in missile lock? Policy. Why were no hard shelters made for Su30s in Srinagae base? Beaurocrats.
Bureaucrat's are part of the problem, unless some thing does not affect them they dont care about it. Our defence procurement is still under the mercy of these babus who neither hasten the privatization nor the procurement. Worse is they dont even let the forces fight back when they are attacked. These armchair bureaucrats who have no field experience, no stake, want to control every thing with no responsibility or accountability.
How can you say that armed forces are incompetent when we have never seen them fight in last two decades? Only way to keep them competent is not by putting them under bureaucrats but fighting real battles which help realize the shortcomings & advantages.
For argument sake lets say we fight & lose war, what is the max we are going to lose? Territory that is already ceded and controlled by the enemy.
As such it is not a big deal for the military. It is the economic aspect which is more worrying , that babu's cannot fund the war or do proper procurement. They constantly keep military impoverished and then end up making all the important decisions by themselves wrt to ceding gained territory or advantage to make us look like fools.
To put it short there is huge disconnect between the monkeys in south block & soldiers who fight on the ground. This is a legacy of nehruvian era who dint want to military to be strong and ended keeping them out of decision making process.
Incidents like balakot help us to know where we are wrt preparedness and what our strength is , its good it took place. We need to fight more such battles and improve our capability, instead of getting into a shell. More over its a one off incident, with which we cannot come to a sweeping conclusion of entire military.
On the other hand if we pull back/hold back after any unfavorable outcome it only helps the enemy. All that they need is luck for one such incident. It will just embolden them more. If we have decided to fight ,we need to be consistent & persistent which puts more pressure on enemy.
One of the biggest mistakes that we did and which will haunt us forever is the disengagement from P tso North and South Bank. We had PLA units even in Gogra/Hot Springs area dominated by the heights we had under our control. If you may read again the post in which I had shown the likely thrustlines for IA to take out PLA, you will realise that those heights gave us the ability to destroy three major force concentrations of PLA by completely surrounding them and forcing them into our selected killing zones with a dash to Lanak La thru Kongka La. The area in the rear of PLA forces in Gogra/Hot Springs is a narrow valley which affords very little mobility to their mech forces stationed in that area. from the F8 which allowed us to Dominate even the Khurnak Fort, we could have easily done a pincer behind PLA forces and decimated them. The alarm with which PLA destroyed its structures and withdrew from those areas shows how desperate they were to somehow free themselves from the stranglehold of IA in those areas. Now that we have removed our foot from their neck, they are playing ball and what we gained on 29th/30th Aug has again been lost on the negotiating table. If I was IA Chief, I will disregard PMO/RMO and ask my SFs to go and reoccupy some of the crucial peaks again. That will only force PLA to withdraw.
PLA forces are all Mech Forces deployed in Ladakh. a total of four divisions with associated support weapons. Thru P Tso N & S bank domination, we had three of them completely covered and surrounded.
PLA forces are all Mech Forces deployed in Ladakh. a total of four divisions with associated support weapons. Thru P Tso N & S bank domination, we had three of them completely covered and surrounded.
Well, fault is in our negotiation process. Why did we kept on negotiating for so long? Just call off the negotiation and warn China of nuclear annihilation if they try anything funny. Test a nuclear bomb or two while we are at it.
Right now China thinks it can win a war with India without even fighting it!
GoI is probably worried what will happen to its image if suddenly 20k soldiers die. Alo I think its more focussed on Pakistan now and want to ignore China with bare minimum.
GoI is mainly focused on domestic election politics. That is so much important that even ongoing pandemic has become secondary. Problem with all conflicts is that they are won or lost many years before they actually surface. By prepration or lack thereof.
China knows the Govt and top bureaucracy does not want a war and will veto any suggestions from the Army.
Refer Falcon's tweets where he lamented gains on the field were being given up on the table and the army was being told to give up its positions.
The present arrangement suits China. It does not suit us. But given the present circumstances we cannot change it.
You are being quite premature in your conclusion. We still haven't seen what the govt has planned.
Also, the present arrangement definitely does not suit China. Did you forget the economic impact this has had between us? They are being kicked out of our consumer sector and other strategic economic sectors like power and construction. They achieved the exact opposite of what they had set out to achieve and whatever perceived gains they have managed to achieve are still contested.
Victory and defeat are decided after the game is over.
Stop being so full of yourself and take a look at the real picture. India's trade is not massive loss as it is touted to be in our media. Due to their backdoor activities, they were already being restricted in the crucial sectors.
The govt is not looking to go to war. All the gains they have made will stay with them unless the situation on ground changes. Unless you have another Aug'20 like move up your sleeve there is nothing to back you up on the discussion table.
The govt is looking to get out of this mess more so now that the second wave has shredded our recovery plans.
This is the problem. All I said is you have to give some more time and then finally see the result before coming to a conclusion. But you guys are mostly about whining rather than analysing.
Chinese know that very well that India wont fight a war. Strategically I dont want India to shed blood but let US or other european power do the dirty work against china. But here on land border we should have given them a strong push back. Every time Indian govt insisted that we will have talks it simply sent a message that we are ready for compromise. At the end of the day its the same as what happened in the past with other other govts, this govt only flattered to deceive.
The very idea of using access to our market to gain points on the border issue seems to have fallen flat. Govt more or less seems to have already done u-turn and allowing chinese players free run barring few exceptions here & there. If we dont follow our own plan why do they even expect to get respect from enemy? On the contrary chinese have turned tables against us and are now using it to their advantage. As long they sponsor our IPL shows our masses should be ok.......lotus eaters, what ever decision they take is bound to fail.
There is no plan. The govt went for 12 rounds of talks each time they told us to shove it. Only the Kailash Range Op gave us some leverage which we gifted away.
GOI is not looking for a conflict. They have MAJOR compelling reasons but thats the truth. Our deployments are defensive in nature. There is not a single move to threaten the chinks.
Our only plan is to win local elections, rest of the long term strategic thinking is just a side hobby. Neither we can change the DNA of politicians nor the inbred culture of south block to keep capitulating on the negotiating table.
