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oh yeah thats a gamble. what happens if s400 does not meet expectations. Even those patriot systems in saudi and south korea have misfired. I dont think it would be wise to have our war planning centered around the capabilities of these systems.
Do you think that we will invest a multi billion dollars on a lemon? I dont think so. We were seriously handicapped in 2019 and thats why we didn't retaliated for feb27. We building our military, s400 & rafale are one among such build up.
Two squadrons of Rafale
Bettter than mirages. We used mirages for strike mission in 99 & 2019.
 
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Do you think that we will invest a multi billion dollars on a lemon? I dont think so. We were seriously handicapped in 2019 and thats why we didn't retaliated for feb27. We building our military, s400 & rafale are one among such build up.

Bettter than mirages. We used mirages for strike mission in 99 & 2019.
when rubber meets the road we will know which are oranges and lemons. All we have is its capability on paper, how it will fare on battlefield is still unknown.
 
when rubber meets the road we will know which are oranges and lemons. All we have is its capability on paper, how it will fare on battlefield is still unknown.
By that logic non of our military equipment except mirage not battle tested, including brahmos.
 
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Do you think that we will invest a multi billion dollars on a lemon? I dont think so. We were seriously handicapped in 2019 and thats why we didn't retaliated for feb27. We building our military, s400 & rafale are one among such build up.

Bettter than mirages. We used mirages for strike mission in 99 & 2019.
We didn't retaliate because of abhinandan. That's it not because we didn't have rafale or s400. Simple.
Abhinandan was a bargaining chip which they got unfortunately. Had he been shotdown inside Indian airspace there wouldn't have been any problem. We would have retaliated on their brigade headquarters. We weren't handicapped please don't regurgitate shite like Sawhney and shookla.
 
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We didn't retaliate because of abhinandan. That's it not because we didn't have rafale or s400. Simple.
Abhinandan was a bargaining chip which they got unfortunately. Had he been shotdown inside Indian airspace there wouldn't have been any problem. We would have retaliated on their brigade headquarters. We weren't handicapped please don't regurgitate shite like Sawhney and shookla.
Prisoners of war is an unavoidable reality. Soldiers are trained to face that reality. Don't take a ride on Abhinandan for our inaction.
 
Prisoners of war is an unavoidable reality. Soldiers are trained to face that reality. Don't take a ride on Abhinandan for our inaction.
It wasn't a war. It could be at best defined as an air skirmish. Abhinandan was the reason we couldn't retaliate. Had they not returned abhinandan we were going to bomb a lot more than what is told. There was a lot of political pressure to de-escalate because of abhinandan going down inside Pakistani airspace. And I don't blame the GoI for not retaliating. It was not required to lose more men for getting abhinandan. It was a pretty smart decision. Our objectives were pretty much achieved and Pakistan locked itself.

Please keep in mind that we went into Pakistan proper to bomb their positions. It doesn't happen with a nation with handicapped abilities. And RoE is one of the reasons that immediate retaliation to PAF failed. The Pakistanis couldn't even enter our airspace for more than 5 minutes. If we were handicapped the PAF could enter our airspace at will.
You might think we are at war but unfortunately the GoI doesn't think like that..
 
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It wasn't a war. It could be at best defined as an air skirmish. Abhinandan was the reason we couldn't retaliate. Had they not returned abhinandan we were going to bomb a lot more than what is told. There was a lot of political pressure to de-escalate because of abhinandan going down inside Pakistani airspace. And I don't blame the GoI for not retaliating. It was not required to lose more men for getting abhinandan. It was a pretty smart decision. Our objectives were pretty much achieved and Pakistan locked itself.

Please keep in mind that we went into Pakistan proper to bomb their positions. It doesn't happen with a nation with handicapped abilities. And RoE is one of the reasons that immediate retaliation to PAF failed. The Pakistanis couldn't even enter our airspace for more than 5 minutes. If we were handicapped the PAF could enter our airspace at will.
You might think we are at war but unfortunately the GoI doesn't think like that..
Respecting your opinion without agreeing on Abhinandan.
 
By that logic non of our military equipment except mirage not battle tested, including brahmos.
hard truth is we have not fought a big war or a skirmish for a long time to know what our capabilities are. Even during kargil army chief said the intruders would be evicted in weeks and then it went for more than 2 months. Then we had to scramble to get bombs from israel, got outdated satellite maps, imported ammunition was found faulty..etc.
Dont have the illusion that we can just fight a war with what we have, there are lot more unknowns than knowns. You have to remember it is not a static environment even enemy will also think like us and be well prepared. Even countries which keep fighting wars like US do not achieve their battle field objectives and are surprised by the enemies abilities.

This is not a boxing game where you deliver a knockout punch and declared winner. Do you know armenia which lost the war actually was the stronger side before , they actually won in 1994 war and had occupied azerbaijan territory.
 
It wasn't a war. It could be at best defined as an air skirmish. Abhinandan was the reason we couldn't retaliate. Had they not returned abhinandan we were going to bomb a lot more than what is told. There was a lot of political pressure to de-escalate because of abhinandan going down inside Pakistani airspace. And I don't blame the GoI for not retaliating. It was not required to lose more men for getting abhinandan. It was a pretty smart decision. Our objectives were pretty much achieved and Pakistan locked itself.

Please keep in mind that we went into Pakistan proper to bomb their positions. It doesn't happen with a nation with handicapped abilities. And RoE is one of the reasons that immediate retaliation to PAF failed. The Pakistanis couldn't even enter our airspace for more than 5 minutes. If we were handicapped the PAF could enter our airspace at will.
You might think we are at war but unfortunately the GoI doesn't think like that..
We dint have plan B, period. The moment you say we will dump every thing on you it means we had no idea what to do next. You dont fight war to get back prisoners but to achieve political objectives, prisoners are obviously collateral damage that you need to account for in your plan.

Next ROE is for idiots if you dint break it its your problem not enemies, dint pakistan use f16 againt us and fired missiles from across the border? So why dint we plan for it? if we were expecting pakistan to follow ROE every time , then whose problem is that.
 
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We dint have plan B, period. The moment you say we will dump every thing on you it means we had no idea what to do next. You dont fight war to get back prisoners but to achieve political objectives, prisoners are obviously collateral damage that you need to account for in your plan.

Next ROE is for idiots if you dint break it its your problem not enemies, dint pakistan use f16 againt us and fired missiles from across the border? So why dint we plan for it? if we were expecting pakistan to follow ROE every time , then whose problem is that.
Obviously those criticisms are valid, we didn't plan for the aftermath. The government was in the illusion that it will go like 2016 and the Pakistanis will deny the strike and not retaliate. And for the most part the IAF's performance wasn't bad on 27th Feb. Our air defence overreacted and lacked patience which showed how IAF couldn't handle sudden pressure. But the airspace remained secured. It was expected that things will go like Kargil they didn't but it was a learning experience.The RoE argument is weak I agree. But the IAF hasn't tasted blood like the IA has. It's not as ruthless as the IA had to become. I hope they learn and understand that we are at war with the Pakistanis.
 
We were never going to retaliate. Unless we had suffered a major blow, publicly. War at that point was not in favor of the Trinity.
More like we never had a reason to retaliate and abhinandan's capture only made our calculations more complex..
 
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. Our air defence overreacted and lacked patience which showed how IAF couldn't handle sudden pressure. But the airspace remained secured. It was expected that things will go like Kargil they didn't but it was a learning experience.
yes thats what we lack , battle experience. We need to fight more smaller battles fine tune our strategy and process before taking a big leap. 1962 showed what we lacked which helped us in 1965 & 1971. Its better to lose small battles and learn some thing than to lose a big war.
 
More like we never had a reason to retaliate and abhinandan's capture only made our calculations more complex..
Even if we HAD a reason to retaliate, it would not have been pursued. Unless there was a publicly visible attack, India will never retaliate. Does not matter how many soldiers, civilians die.
 
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Even if we HAD a reason to retaliate, it would not have been pursued. Unless there was a publicly visible attack, India will never retaliate. Does not matter how many soldiers, civilians die.
We did during balakot. We do retaliate. You are creating way too dismal a picture. The objectives of the retaliation maybe questionable but we do retaliate against Pakistanis atleast..
 
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yes thats what we lack , battle experience. We need to fight more smaller battles fine tune our strategy and process before taking a big leap. 1962 showed what we lacked which helped us in 1965 & 1971. Its better to lose small battles and learn some thing than to lose a big war.
Our army has enough battle experience. It's the air force that hasn't been used to its full potential. You can use air force in small battles. Though regular air strikes should become a norm against Pakistan...
 
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We did during balakot. We do retaliate. You are creating way too dismal a picture. The objectives of the retaliation maybe questionable but we do retaliate against Pakistanis atleast..
"public"... it was a massive public event before election. It was hitting one of the Trinity hard. So they acted minimally.