LOC Flare up: Related news and Discussions

[screambowl]

Such skirmish is not going to help to maintain Indian superiority in conventional warfare. Whether you cross LC do a raid and come back. After two months BAT will do the same. There are no winners and losers. It's political goal point. That's all

Please take a serious note on this:
India made Pakistan to accept in 1972 LC as temporary border because India came out to be conventionally superior. And cease fire line was demarcated. But as Pakistan gained back it's muscle they slowly turned the table by violating cease fire line and forced us to violate our own created cease fire line. Were they in position to do the same in 77? NO! Reason is clear.

And Pakistan becomes a nuclear weapon state. Slowly they worked to raise their muscle in POK. Now it's not India which decided when a cease fire line of 2003 will be violated. Pakistan is in position to violate it again and again, reason is clear. They have gained or came at par with Indian fire power. Which I believe is loss to India and win win situation for Pakistan.

 

[Bornubus]

Sir.

My apologies.

@Shashank was the one.




Of course you were kind enough with as follows






I agree, am ignorant to the wonderful sequence of posts you had made on the day.

@Shashank

Sir. Am still waiting for my answers to the queries raised to your experts

Not my fault if you can't understand the difference of Context and complaint with that post.


But then again why am I asking since you are too busy crying like a kid over a status never claimed by be.


Sir ....

 

[Falcon]

They would have allowed sindur instead of bhindi. Only women whose husbands are dead do not wear a bhindi or sindur. This gesture is offensive to the lady.

Secondly, they were not allowed to speak in their mother tongue, his mother do not know other languages.

Third, they should have given new sarees, not the salwars.

Fourth, in the agreement Pakistan said there will be no press. But press are allowed to abuse the two helpless ladies.

Removing Mangal sutra is not a good gesture as well.

People who watched all these things are getting the message that Pakistan is trying to change the very culture and customs of these helpless ladies.

Sir.

Red Beret? Any correlation with the Corps of Military Police?

To answer your points:-

Firstly, bhindi is not worn, bindi was on your mind? One is okra and the second is the ornamental 'dot' put on the forehead. Now, after dispensing with clarity as required, both have the potential to be a vehicle of administration of lethal poisons.

Secondly, they may not be having a marathi speaker, and as such, they were well within their rights to ensure that the conversation was monitored to prevent any passage of instructions being passed on to their prisoner (a valid apprehension).

Thirdly, why? Don't Indian women wear salwar-kameez? Next it could have been given a chiffon and not silk. Frivolous.

Fourthly, women were accompanied by members of Indian Diplomatic Staff till the place of meeting. They could have thrown a cordon of security for the women, private security as they may have been. What stopped them?

Fifthly, mangal sutra could have been weaponised too.

Lastly, what are your views on cavity searches undertaken by US, Australian security services of travellers from India to their country? What are your views of the same undertaken by Indian Security forces even today in Kashmir, of people we claim as Indians?

Your learned opinion is awaited.

 

[_Anonymous_]

Sir.

Red Beret? Any correlation with the Corps of Military Police?

To answer your points:-

Firstly, bhindi is not worn, bindi was on your mind? One is okra and the second is the ornamental 'dot' put on the forehead. Now, after dispensing with clarity as required, both have the potential to be a vehicle of administration of lethal poisons.

Secondly, they may not be having a marathi speaker, and as such, they were well within their rights to ensure that the conversation was monitored to prevent any passage of instructions being passed on to their prisoner (a valid apprehension).

Thirdly, why? Don't Indian women wear salwar-kameez? Next it could have been given a chiffon and not silk. Frivolous.

Fourthly, women were accompanied by members of Indian Diplomatic Staff till the place of meeting. They could have thrown a cordon of security for the women, private security as they may have been. What stopped them?

Fifthly, mangal sutra could have been weaponised too.

Lastly, what are your views on cavity searches undertaken by US, Australian security services of travellers from India to their country? What are your views of the same undertaken by Indian Security forces even today in Kashmir, of people we claim as Indians?

Your learned opinion is awaited.

The entire meeting was conducted with a glass screen separating Lt CDR Jadhav and his family through an intercom . While cavity searches and the removal of jewellery as well as personal articles can be explained in a particular context , how is it justified when there's no physical contact.

Perhaps instead of posing questions , with the experience you command in these matters , why don't you enlighten us on what should've been the SoP and your take on the entire event with necessary interpretations .

 

[Falcon]

1. I'm not a fan of how regionalistic India is, and I believe it often fosters infghting and disunity with negative consequences. But at the same time, India is so damn unique with so many different varieties of people, cultures, languages etc that it was always likely to be a somewhat loose, relaxed arrangement. But I do wish that all Indians, kept their regional pride intact on one side, but didn't let it become arrogance and didn't put it ahead of the fact that we're all Indians. And on that note, I would also like to see some sort of future arrangement where these regionalistic parties (SP, BSP, RJD, TMC, AIADMK, DMK etc) don't get to contest in national elections and play kingmakers; and even more so that they do not get "veto" power when it comes to the country's foreign policy.

Sir.

Your wishful thinking fails miserably at addressing the issues. That is a hard reality for you to understand.

2. It's true that Hindu India was used as a bogey and an imaginary external threat to rally Pakistan behind the Army and ISI, but I definitely still feel that through a deep sense of hatred and contempt, and a burning desire to take back Kashmir and eventually wipe us out, the Pakistanis are in fact obsessed with us; just my viewing of the situation. I also totally agree on the point about Indian Media, Indian Media seems to only know 2 extremes; either it is blatantly to the left, or alternatively it's one of those "commando comic" channels as they're called with their big shout-match "debates" and embarrassing, under-informed, boastful hosts.

And here I was under the impression that the concept of a SECULAR India eroded their raison d'existence as a separate homeland for Muslims of India as demanded prior to the bifurcation of the nation in 1947?

It is intriguing that you have, like many on this forum do, played right into the narrative that was being pushed to justify the creation of Pakistan in the first place. By using the exact phrase that the founders of Pakistan used to create a bogey "Hindu India" you have mainstreamed a rather silly and baseless point.

The point is not about Indian media alone. It is about Indians being uninformed in general, and undertaking a relentless campaign to relegate the minuscule that exist in the sub-group of informed, to a minority by drowning out, or subverting their voices by means of sustained attempts to deflect, ignore and suppress by sheer volume.

It is with great sadness that I re-quote the great Issac Asimov on this forum:

“Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'”

3. The main "Indian obsession" that you discuss on forumns, I'd say, is more about punishing Pakistan for its constant scheming and dastardly acts, than some sort of greater obsession with the country. If tomorrow the LOC could be made the permanent border and India & Pakistan completely disengaged from each other, I think most Indians would be satisfied to go about their business and probably wouldn't think about Pakistan again. Anyhow, we have bigger fish to fry now in the form of China.

Sir.

I again attempt to draw your focus to your own point here - an obsession of an Indian with Pakistan. I am amused to see that you fail to notice how you are exactly underscoring my contention that Indians are obsessed with Pakistan too, instead of obsessing with their own state of affairs and on pertinent questions that need to be addressed in their desire for an united and progressive nation.

Towards this, you have exactly placed in front of yourself, the greatest handicap this nation faces - of blaming Pakistan for using our own stupidities against us. I say stupidities and not stupidity as Kashmir remains a series of missteps and downright idiocy for India as a nation and an example of the ineptitude that is rampant amongst the highest decision makers of this country.

And as for the bigger fish statement, are you sure that it is not a reciprocal?

4. We haven't failed to disengage from Kashmir; we have been left no choice. Pakistan wants all of Kashmir, and that's just the appetizer. Add to that the fact that even the section of the Pakistani military that isn't ideologically obsessed with capturing Kashmir knows, that if there is peace between India and Pakistan, then they will start to become irrelevant and that without the India bogey they will be subject to scrutiny by their own people. So we have basically been forced to keep playing this game in Kashmir, and I am of the opinion that Pakistan will keep making us do this until it destroys itself in its eternal quest to destroy us.

Again you have subtly tried to shift blame to Pakistan and still proving my point.

Why, pray do tell me, is it that there is not one, and I repeat not one, thread in this forum on where India has gone wrong and where India needs to work which is short on idiocy and more on research and solidly based on foundations of International and National laws, treaties and obligations? Why is there a dearth of a discourse in that direction instead of celebrating a retaliation which killed personnel on their side while lamenting loss of own? Where does "strategicfront" distinguish itself from being any other social media platform of misinformed spreading their self informed opinions based on incorrect foundations?

Again, a Pakistan obsession? Yet you claimed it was reverse?

5. We definitely have our own internal issues to solve, but that doesn't erase a very significant external, existential issue for our country in the form of Pakistan; an entity whose very basis of creation is a hatred and contempt for Hindus, secularism and India, and an entity which is ideologically convinced of its religious, racial and cultural superiority and committed to our destruction/subjugation. And remember that when Armies of Islam fight someone, they fight in absolute and eternal terms, it then becomes a conflict all the way to the apocalypse; this is the Islamic mindset (add to that the hadith about Ghazwa e Hind). And we are so lucky that we have a neighbor armed with this mindset, who has a decent amount of military power, and nuclear weapons to top it all off. We may have a million internal issues, but that is an incredibly significant threat to our existence no matter which way you look at it.

A small 'we definitely have our own internal issues to solve..' yet not one thread on that.

Let us examine Kashmir issue? Why not discuss this core issue that straddles us as the first step? And stop blaming an adversarial nation for taking advantage of our ineptitude as a nation?

 

[Falcon]

Not my fault if you can't understand the difference of Context and complaint with that post.


But then again why am I asking since you are too busy crying like a kid over a status never claimed by be.


Sir ....

Sir.

It is very interesting to note the absolute lack of finesse in you. Seeing that you have been posting posts that may be 'hot air',, recent one being the claims of a ghatak operation being a SF one.

I understand your attempting a combative bravado

Keep at it. You are amusing to watch.

 

[Falcon]

That post was partially edited by the moderator otherwise you would've know my reply in the language you understand.


And yeah nobody interested in a boring chatter with you. I never quoted you, it's you who quoted me over the pain caused by my reply to an ignorant Pakistani

Are you sure he is a Pakistani, sir?

Or are you the typical example of many who start accusing other of being Pakistani when they can not hold their own against their own claims undermining their credibility?

 

[Falcon]

The entire meeting was conducted with a glass screen separating Lt CDR Jadhav and his family through an intercom . While cavity searches and the removal of jewellery as well as personal articles can be explained in a particular context , how is it justified when there's no physical contact.

Perhaps instead of posing questions , with the experience you command in these matters , why don't you enlighten us on what should've been the SoP and your take on the entire event with necessary interpretations .

Sir.

You may be aware of the recent 'liquidation' undertaken by North Koreans in Malaysia and how it was carried out? Please correlate.

 

[_Anonymous_]

Sir.

You may be aware of the recent 'liquidation' undertaken by North Koreans in Malaysia and how it was carried out? Please correlate.

Sir ,

I crave your indulgence . Was the aforementioned exchange conducted through diplomatic channels under the full glare of the world media , with attendant diplomats in tow ? Were assurances of security sought and given in the incident you've cited ?

In earnest anticipation of answers which would shed light on both the incidents cited by each of us .

Thanking you .

Warm Regards ,

 

[Srinivas]

Sir.

Red Beret? Any correlation with the Corps of Military Police?

I am not connected to armed forces. I am a software engineer.

To answer your points:-

Firstly, bhindi is not worn, bindi was on your mind? One is okra and the second is the ornamental 'dot' put on the forehead. Now, after dispensing with clarity as required, both have the potential to be a vehicle of administration of lethal poisons.

There is whole lot of science behind the bhindi India use, This is our custom and should not have been asked to remove it.

Secondly, they may not be having a marathi speaker, and as such, they were well within their rights to ensure that the conversation was monitored to prevent any passage of instructions being passed on to their prisoner (a valid apprehension).

Common, there are language experts on both sides.

Thirdly, why? Don't Indian women wear salwar-kameez? Next it could have been given a chiffon and not silk. Frivolous.

Most people who are old in the south and Maharastra do not wear them. There is no need to ask them to wear a new dreess instead a saree should have been fine. This is where the suspicion arises about the Pakistani establishment intention.

Fourthly, women were accompanied by members of Indian Diplomatic Staff till the place of meeting. They could have thrown a cordon of security for the women, private security as they may have been. What stopped them?

Only one is accompanying and he is not allowed to be with the ladies at the time of meet.

Fifthly, mangal sutra could have been weaponised too.

Common, Mangal sutra is very sentimental for a married lady.

Lastly, what are your views on cavity searches undertaken by US, Australian security services of travellers from India to their country? What are your views of the same undertaken by Indian Security forces even today in Kashmir, of people we claim as Indians?

Your learned opinion is awaited.

India waged a diplomatic war against this and made sure this kind of incidents will not happen again.

 

[Falcon]

Sir ,

I crave your indulgence . Was the aforementioned exchange conducted through diplomatic channels under the full glare of the world media , with attendant diplomats in tow ? Were assurances of security sought and given in the incident you've cited ?

In earnest anticipation of answers which would shed light on both the incidents cited by each of us .

Thanking you .

Warm Regards ,

Sir.

The grant of audience was not under the diplomatic access as granted under Vienna Convention. As I have posted earlier, the arrest of Mr Jadhav, and his incarceration, is legal as per the host nation.

Let us leave aside the fact that he was reportedly abducted from Iran as per some sources. Since there has been no attempt by India to physically provide evidence of the same and geotagging data is unavailable from his cell phone, one can not prove or disprove this theory.

If you look at the relevant clauses and conventions of Geneva and Hague, there is no clarification as to the treatment to be meted out to a 'spy' or 'agent' not covered under the diplomatic immunity. As such, the fate of that person lies exclusively with the target nation and it is upto them to deal with his or her as per their own wish.

It is under this grey area, that Mr Jadhav, being caught with apparently falsified documents as available in open literature, can be classified as a 'non state actor' and be treated as such.

The rights and courtesies are at the sole discretion of the state.

It is on similar lines one can argue for the case of Afzal Guru.

Need I say more?

 

[bonobashi]

I am not connected to armed forces. I am a software engineer.


There is whole lot of science behind the bhindi India use, This is our custom and should not have been asked to remove it.

He has already pointed out, 'bhindi' is vendekai. Please try to understand what has been said; please also try to understand what you might wish to say. The word you seem to be groping for is 'bindi'. Once again, 'bhindi' is a vegetable.

Common, there are language experts on both sides.



Most people who are old in the south and Maharastra do not wear them. There is no need to ask them to wear a new dreess instead a saree should have been fine. This is where the suspicion arises about the Pakistani establishment intention.



Only one is accompanying and he is not allowed to be with the ladies at the time of meet.



Common, Mangal sutra is very sentimental for a married lady.



India waged a diplomatic war against this and made sure this kind of incidents will not happen again.

And our own practises in Kashmir? Are you proposing that we should wage a diplomatic war against this as well?

 

[Falcon]

There is whole lot of science behind the bhindi India use, This is our custom and should not have been asked to remove it.

Sir.

What is this science of bindi?

And customs are not of importance for a person who is a 'non-state' actor if the holding nation decides to do away with granting him any rights. Let us be legally clear.

Common, there are language experts on both sides.

I wonder why we have so much success with Madras troops and Maratha troops in Kashmir? Pakistan may not be aware of this brilliant fact? Dialects certainly don't make a difference in short sentences?

Most people who are old in the south and Maharastra do not wear them. There is no need to ask them to wear a new dreess instead a saree should have been fine. This is where the suspicion arises about the Pakistani establishment intention.

So, you will dictate, or somebody else for that matter, what Pakistan does to undertake it's security measures? Quite presumptuous.

Only one is accompanying and he is not allowed to be with the ladies at the time of meet.

You failed to answer. No media was inside the meet itself to harass the ladies. It was before and after if I recall. So, my query is back, what steps did Indian mission undertake to provide private security guards to keep away the media? That was a legal right and could have been done.

Common, Mangal sutra is very sentimental for a married lady.

And husband is not? Try again.

India waged a diplomatic war against this and made sure this kind of incidents will not happen again.

You are answering in a manner that leaves me to really wonder about your knowledge of issues.

 

[Srinivas]

@Falcon why do you have to wage a war for an invinsible being who was never seen by any human, also why do you need a country because of your beliefs?


Isn't is a comedy when people talk about heaven and earth?

also why do you people wage jihad and kill others when clearly it is been an established fact that no one knows where you go when you die?

regarding bindi, it is a custom and I need not have to explain this. It is sentimental. Your ancestors wore it before they got converted.

check this tweet

https://twitter.com/x/status/945701606623817728

He has already pointed out, 'bhindi' is vendekai. Please try to understand what has been said; please also try to understand what you might wish to say. The word you seem to be groping for is 'bindi'. Once again, 'bhindi' is a vegetable.

And our own practises in Kashmir? Are you proposing that we should wage a diplomatic war against this as well?

I have rightly given the answer, he understood what I said.

regarding Kashmir, who are you to teach morals to me when pakistan army itself has done various genocides.

India is controlling the crowd who were sponsored by Pakistan to create chaos

One should not sit and speak peace or nice words when the enemy is behaving like a rouge and trying to tear your country using all the filthy techniques. First thing to should be eliminate the enemy force, kill their moral and make sure peace returns.

 

[bonobashi]

I have rightly given the answer, he understood what I said.

regarding Kashmir, who are you to teach morals to me when pakistan army itself has done various genocides.

First, he understood what you said, although it was wrongly said, and although he tried to correct you, you persisted. Continuing to make a mistake is no sign of superiority, just of ignorance and of inability to learn when instructed.

Second, it is not my question; it was his, and you failed to answer the question: if you object to body-searches of visitors to a prisoner condemned to death, you have to do so with clean hands. You cannot plead that to be wrong when you are doing it yourself in Kashmir.

Is that easy enough for you?

India is controlling the crowd who were sponsored by Pakistan to create chaos.

End of the day, Pakistan is a Jihad country and waging war on India. Some times things become ugly because of your enemy tactics. So India has to resort to violence.

One should not sit and speak peace or nice words when the enemy is behaving like a rouge and trying to tear your country using all the filthy techniques. First thing to should be eliminate the enemy force, kill their moral and make sure peace returns.

Rouge is a cosmetic women put on their faces. Rogue is a person who has gone beyond the bounds of civilised behaviour. Please decide.

Please also learn the difference between 'moral', how you should behave yourself and keep to decency, and 'morale', your feelings when a series of mistakes are pointed out to you, and you refuse to acknowledge them and keep up the pretence. When you speak of killing the moral of 'enemy force', I hope you are not proposing to turn them into *censored*-mongers and pederasts.

A suggestion: you may do well in software. Stick to it; times are hard, software engineers who do not concentrate on their work get terminated. Concentrate.

 

[Srinivas]

First, he understood what you said, although it was wrongly said, and although he tried to correct you, you persisted. Continuing to make a mistake is no sign of superiority, just of ignorance and of inability to learn when instructed.

Second, it is not my question; it was his, and you failed to answer the question: if you object to body-searches of visitors to a prisoner condemned to death, you have to do so with clean hands. You cannot plead that to be wrong when you are doing it yourself in Kashmir.

Is that easy enough for you?



Rouge is a cosmetic women put on their faces. Rogue is a person who has gone beyond the bounds of civilised behaviour. Please decide.

Please also learn the difference between 'moral', how you should behave yourself and keep to decency, and 'morale', your feelings when a series of mistakes are pointed out to you, and you refuse to acknowledge them and keep up the pretence. When you speak of killing the moral of 'enemy force', I hope you are not proposing to turn them into *censored*-mongers and pederasts.

A suggestion: you may do well in software. Stick to it; times are hard, software engineers who do not concentrate on their work get terminated. Concentrate.

your logic is blind and I will reply to you soon.

 

[Falcon]

@Falcon why do you have to wage a war for an invinsible being who was never seen by any human, also why do you need a country because of your beliefs?

Sir.

You are losing control of your discourse?

Isn't is a comedy when people talk about heaven and earth?

also why do you people wage jihad and kill others when clearly it is been an established fact that no one knows where you go when you die?

Funny.

Jihad is the duty of every faithful to wage against himself or herself to follow the one true path. That is my understanding of the term. Is it not like dharam and shuddhikaran or something similar in Hinduism?

regarding bindi, it is a custom and I need not have to explain this. It is sentimental. Your ancestors wore it before they got converted.

@RATHORE
There is the point I was making.

See?

I have rightly given the answer, he understood what I said.

regarding Kashmir, who are you to teach morals to me when pakistan army itself has done various genocides.

@RATHORE

And again.

@Srinivas So two wrongs make it right? What is your learned view of the bombing of Manipur by IAF?

India is controlling the crowd who were sponsored by Pakistan to create chaos.

That is done by the civil police and CAPFs, no?

End of the day, Pakistan is a Jihad country and waging war on India. Some times things become ugly because of your enemy tactics. So India has to resort to violence.

And you are an ignorant citizen

@RATHORE notice how this member has proved my points about how we fail as a nation?

One should not sit and speak peace or nice words when the enemy is behaving like a rouge and trying to tear your country using all the filthy techniques. First thing to should be eliminate the enemy force, kill their moral and make sure peace returns.

Ably supported by you and your ilk my dear.

 

[Falcon]

your logic is blind and I will reply to you soon.

@bonobashi

Sir.

I am yet to learn Binary. Thought English was the medium here. He has, the member, proved my points as being made to @RATHORE

 

[Srinivas]

Sir.

You are losing control of your discourse?



Funny.

Jihad is the duty of every faithful to wage against himself or herself to follow the one true path. That is my understanding of the term. Is it not like dharam and shuddhikaran or something similar in Hinduism?




@RATHORE
There is the point I was making.

See?





@RATHORE

And again.

@Srinivas So two wrongs make it right? What is your learned view of the bombing of Manipur by IAF?




That is done by the civil police and CAPFs, no?




And you are an ignorant citizen

@RATHORE notice how this member has proved my points about how we fail as a nation?




Ably supported by you and your ilk my dear.

@Falcon @bonbashi we will have a party here when I am free.

@Falcon I am not out of control, I am just reminding your your blind faith.

 

[RATHORE]

Sir.

Your wishful thinking fails miserably at addressing the issues. That is a hard reality for you to understand.




And here I was under the impression that the concept of a SECULAR India eroded their raison d'existence as a separate homeland for Muslims of India as demanded prior to the bifurcation of the nation in 1947?

It is intriguing that you have, like many on this forum do, played right into the narrative that was being pushed to justify the creation of Pakistan in the first place. By using the exact phrase that the founders of Pakistan used to create a bogey "Hindu India" you have mainstreamed a rather silly and baseless point.

The point is not about Indian media alone. It is about Indians being uninformed in general, and undertaking a relentless campaign to relegate the minuscule that exist in the sub-group of informed, to a minority by drowning out, or subverting their voices by means of sustained attempts to deflect, ignore and suppress by sheer volume.

It is with great sadness that I re-quote the great Issac Asimov on this forum:

“Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'”




Sir.

I again attempt to draw your focus to your own point here - an obsession of an Indian with Pakistan. I am amused to see that you fail to notice how you are exactly underscoring my contention that Indians are obsessed with Pakistan too, instead of obsessing with their own state of affairs and on pertinent questions that need to be addressed in their desire for an united and progressive nation.

Towards this, you have exactly placed in front of yourself, the greatest handicap this nation faces - of blaming Pakistan for using our own stupidities against us. I say stupidities and not stupidity as Kashmir remains a series of missteps and downright idiocy for India as a nation and an example of the ineptitude that is rampant amongst the highest decision makers of this country.

And as for the bigger fish statement, are you sure that it is not a reciprocal?




Again you have subtly tried to shift blame to Pakistan and still proving my point.

Why, pray do tell me, is it that there is not one, and I repeat not one, thread in this forum on where India has gone wrong and where India needs to work which is short on idiocy and more on research and solidly based on foundations of International and National laws, treaties and obligations? Why is there a dearth of a discourse in that direction instead of celebrating a retaliation which killed personnel on their side while lamenting loss of own? Where does "strategicfront" distinguish itself from being any other social media platform of misinformed spreading their self informed opinions based on incorrect foundations?

Again, a Pakistan obsession? Yet you claimed it was reverse?



A small 'we definitely have our own internal issues to solve..' yet not one thread on that.

Let us examine Kashmir issue? Why not discuss this core issue that straddles us as the first step? And stop blaming an adversarial nation for taking advantage of our ineptitude as a nation?

1. Hoping for a less regionalistic India IS wishful thinking, if there is a pragmatic solution please suggest it, because it doesn't appear India has found it yet.

2. I intentionally used the term Hindu India - it is a reference to the terms in which the Pakistani leadership/military/ISI framed us to influence the thinking of their masses; if that is not clear, I will put it in quotation marks from now on as you did.

3. Idealism is one thing, but in Democracy, it's not just that one person's ignorance is worth the same as another's knowledge, but the ignorance of the masses usually prevails.

4. Nowhere do I ever claim that India hasn't made a series of missteps, in fact, in the past I have described India's history as a bouquet of blunders and a never ending series of missed opportunities. But it would be incredibly inaccurate and unfair to try and chalk everything up to India's mistakes alone, and give Pakistan a complete free pass on all of its nefarious designs and activities. There is nothing obsessive about admitting that we have made mistakes that we need to fix, and trying to introspect and fix them, while simultaneously not giving a free pass to the perpetrators of 70 years' worth of dastardly acts and conspiracies.

5. Is forumn ka theka maine nahi leh rakha bhai. It is not my job to shape its direction or discourse - you might be asking the wrong person here. Your point in this regard seems like something you should be asking a mod. And if the dearth of such threads bothers you, go ahead and start one yourself, and feel free to tag those you are interested in discussing that with.

6. As for the Kashmir issue, what do you want to discuss now that hasn't already been discussed? The simple solution would be to turn the LOC into an International Border. If the Pakistanis were willing to do that, it'd be done by now. As we've discussed already their Army has a massive stake in ensuring that the biggest bone of contention between the two countries is never resolved.