LOC Flare up: Related news and Discussions

[lcafanboy]

Dawood Ibrahim your problem,not ours. Your corrupt people lived with that man.he went to Dubai and vanished. Your mistake,not our mistake

Any kid knows Dawood Ibrahim stays in white House Karachi. We are not idiots whom Pakistanis can take for ride.

Start war if you want.Don't accuse us to an extent that we forget rules. We are sick and tired of baseless allegations. Your Kashmir not in our control.

Jani hum jab Bhi ladenge woh din bhi humara hoga, tareekh bhi humaari hogi, woh waqt bhi humara hoga aur Goli Bhi Bhi humari hogi...
Aur haan RULES bhi humare honge....☺
Aur Akhir main Humare Kashmir Pe control Bhi Humara hi Hoga....
As you can see Indian Army has for last 4yrs opened Travel Agency, 72 Hoors Service which operates 24x7 sending all the Ola Uber Terrorist pigs Pakistan sends to this side of the border....

 

[AbRaj]

We are like brothers. Dragons and maarkhors together.

Wrong anology. More apt word defining that would be

BTw one history lesson for you . ---MOD EDIT: NOT NEEDED---

Roze mein likha hain ya nashe mein. Ya dono mein farq nahin?

I remember @Falcon used to rail against Kshitij Sharma & screambowl for low quality & low IQ posts. Why does he get a free pass? Or have we institutionalised ( pun unintended) the fact that we can't expect anything better from Paxtanis but we need their presence here? Hence this guy's juvenile outbursts & less than juvenile mentality in full display since the past few days is tolerated out here.

I recall that id The Deterrent used to make highly intelligent if at times totally false arguments & usually a judicious mix of facts & fiction but at least he knew how to articulate his points. This guy is like a drunk peeing in the commode. He's peeing everywhere except where he ought to.
@Milspec ; @nair ; @Ashwin ; @suryakiran ; @Ashwin ; @Arvind

same thing I told to @nair . Btw there was a good and knowledgeable Pakistani member who had very good knowledge about BMD systems and Projectiles, who left the forum due to excessive trolling by some members and mods let that happen. But no one is willing to act against this poster

 

[Hellfire]

I remember @Falcon used to rail against Kshitij Sharma & screambowl for low quality & low IQ posts. Why does he get a free pass? Or have we institutionalised ( pun unintended) the fact that we can't expect anything better from Paxtanis but we need their presence here? Hence this guy's juvenile outbursts & less than juvenile mentality in full display since the past few days is tolerated out here.

Man, life took a turn that am busy, I just log in infrequently, interact specifically, and log out. So, the differences are creeping in....

 

[Hellfire]

Sir
Do you mean to say that Levina was Right

Let us revisit this article:

Army asks Iran to observe principle of non-interference

Army chiefs from both sides "resolved to enhance security measures on either side of the border.”

www.dawn.com

Relevant extracts:

"Gen Bajwa had called Gen Baqeri on Monday to seek action against Baloch separatists, who have allegedly taken up refuge on Iranian soil. The call was made against the backdrop of Friday attack on a Frontier Corps patrol in restive Balochistan in which six troops were martyred. The Baloch Liberation Army has claimed responsibility for the attack.

Pakistani security agencies believe that over the past few years Iranian intelligence services have forged ties with Baloch separatists to counter Iranian militants, who are allegedly having sanctuaries in Pakistan."


Now:

The Coming Crisis Along the Iran-Pakistan Border

Qassem Soleimani’s killing will have trickle down effects that could ramp up Baloch militancy in both countries.

thediplomat.com

Relevant extracts:

'"Soleimani’s death is likely to increase militancy for two reasons. First, his successor, Ismail Qaani, is focused on Iran’s eastern border and on drug cartel movement in the border region. This is highly likely to escalate the tension in the region in the coming years. Second, Baloch Sunni militancy is rearing its head, and Qaani, having been looking after Iran’s priorities in the region, is likely to respond to this trend with more force than his predecessor, Soleimani.'"

and

"Under Soleimani, the Quds Force’s main concern regarding Pakistan was the recruitment of Pakistani Shias to fight in Syria to protect the regime of Syrian President Bashar al-Assad. Iran is said to have increased its footprint in Quetta, the provincial capital of Balochistan, as part of its efforts to recruit Pakistan Shias to join the Zainabiyoun Brigade militia group in Syria. These Shia Muslims pass through illegal border points in Balochistan to reach Iran without Islamabad’s knowledge. From there, they would be dispatched to Syria by the IRGC and Quds Force to fight the rebels opposed to Assad’s regime.

However, Soleimani’s successor Ismail Qaani could adopt a very different – and more dangerous — strategy for the region. Qaani has reportedly looked after Iranian priorities in the east, such as drug trafficking in the border region and aiding Afghanistan’s Northern Alliance in its fight against the Taliban. Under Qaani’s leadership, the Quds Force is likely to foment trouble not only in Middle East but also in Afghanistan and Pakistan. This development has serious implications for the security situation in Afghanistan as well as Iran’s relationship with Pakistan."


There are good reads:

Pakistan-Iran Bilateral Relations: More Growth, But Not Close – Part Two: Saudi Arabia and Balochistan - Future Directions International

There is potential for further deepening of Pakistan-Iran defence ties now that the economic and financial sanctions against Iran have been removed. Islamabad will have to be very careful in how it handles this matter, however, and will need to keep in mind how it would be seen by Saudi Arabia...

www.futuredirections.org.au

Pakistan blames Iran-based separatists for attack – DW – 04/20/2019

Earlier this week, gunmen ambushed a passenger bus in Pakistan's restive Baluchistan province, killing 14 people. It's not the first time Pakistan has blamed Iran-based militants for launching attacks on its soil.

www.dw.com

Saudi Investment in Pakistan Could Further Destabilize Its Border With Iran

Last fall, soon after Prime Minister Imran Khan took office, Pakistan unexpectedly invited Saudi Arabia to join the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor—the big-ticket Pakistan component of China’s huge Belt and Road Initiative. The influx of Saudi money is contributing to insecurity along...

www.worldpoliticsreview.com

Pakistan Receives Warning From Iran not to Join Saudi Proxy War - Turkish Policy Quarterly

Pakistan Receives Warning From Iran not to Join Saudi Proxy War

turkishpolicy.com

Pakistan: Caught in Saudi-Chinese Crosshairs - The Globalist

Suicide attack in Iran frames visit to Pakistan by Saudi crown prince.

www.theglobalist.com

Now let us revisit the issue. A claim of ownership of a supposed attack on a TEL in Pakistan (directly or indirectly). Leave apart the fact that a reciprocal attack would have taken place with a few hours on our own TEL (anyone who has any clue of Indian SFC units, will be able to understand this; not many have a clue though), the point to ponder is why would India risk a retaliation in attacking this way, when there is no war, will 'show our hand' and compromise our asset (if any) in-situ?

To assume and aver to any kind of control over BLA/TTP by any Indian, is blatantly an attempt either to gain 'eyeballs' or to undermine Indian narrative. We know at least one person who did this, our ex-PM Mr Manmohan Singh, at Shram-al-Shaikh, where he went ahead and claimed Indian support to BLA, a patent lie.

BLA stands a proscribed organization today. US proscribed it in 2019. Basic knowledge and some effort to use grey cells, would tell you that we would be shooting ourselves in the foot, if we were to support BLA, a US proscribed organization, while asking US help in FATF and other forums against Pakistani support to proscribed outfits. Does it take too much effort to think for yourself?


I can claim I went on moon - walking on foot. And I can say I stand by my claim.

 

[Hellfire]

@Hellfire, you are respected on this forum but you are way off in many occassions. You are not god's gift to mankind . Get your act together. I am not a fool and I know a lot more than you do. You were wrong on many things. I am not on twitter for reasons I can't explain you. Just an advice.
@Levina.

Like? Akhnoor Dagger capture? Or no AWACS in air on 27 Feb 2019? Or scrambling of AWACS? Or mobilizing Strike Corps when they were sitting in their peacetime locations? Or the date of war to start?

Simple advice.

Read up about Baluchistan issue in present times, know the players, identify the interests and most importantly, read open sources, which will give you the correct picture. It is all there in open domain. The only thing needed is to use the grey cells, which nobody seems to want to do, grandstanding to grab a few 'eyeballs'

 

[STEPHEN COHEN]

Like? Akhnoor Dagger capture? Or no AWACS in air on 27 Feb 2019? Or scrambling of AWACS? Or mobilizing Strike Corps when they were sitting in their peacetime locations? Or the date of war to start?

Simple advice.

Read up about Baluchistan issue in present times, know the players, identify the interests and most importantly, read open sources, which will give you the correct picture. It is all there in open domain. The only thing needed is to use the grey cells, which nobody seems to want to do, grandstanding to grab a few 'eyeballs'

If we Really are serious about POK
Then at some point of time
We will have to escalate

You Cannot make Omelettes without Breaking Eggs

So whether we have to blow up TELs or Brigade HQs , if it is necessary
It has to be done

Otherwise what is the point in loudly claiming that POK is ours

 

[STEPHEN COHEN]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1260788272860737537

 

[vstol Jockey]

Like? Akhnoor Dagger capture? Or no AWACS in air on 27 Feb 2019? Or scrambling of AWACS? Or mobilizing Strike Corps when they were sitting in their peacetime locations? Or the date of war to start?

Simple advice.

Read up about Baluchistan issue in present times, know the players, identify the interests and most importantly, read open sources, which will give you the correct picture. It is all there in open domain. The only thing needed is to use the grey cells, which nobody seems to want to do, grandstanding to grab a few 'eyeballs'

I had very clearly stated the meaning of capture. Probably you did not read that post and later you too posted that PA has vacated that area.
I had also stated that AWAC was not in station and I was correct as AWAC was over Punjab and moved up to East J&K later.
I had posted about use of other assets on ground in Balochistan when @Levina had posted about Abdali. and you are confirming the same from your post #2946.
But I am really surprised to see the kind of authority you claim to have about anything that happens in and around India.

 

[Sulla84]

Nitin Gadkari saying on TV that Wuhan virus came from Lab is serious. Looks like a firm signal from GOI to China, regarding its border shenanigans...

 

[vvabhiram]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1260836641054302208

Details of Indian ELINT plane Boeing 707 entering Pakistan Airspace

 

[RajibJ]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1260841407201202176

It was a Boeing 707 .many in twitter has posted snap from Flightradar then switched off and got away from flightradar somewhere within Pak airspace. A netra of Iaf was moving quickly towards Punjab then got off from tracking. Is it some sort of show of strenth going on with who respond first.

 

[vvabhiram]

Nitin Gadkari saying on TV that Wuhan virus came from Lab is serious. Looks like a firm signal from GOI to China, regarding its border shenanigans...

My opinion is , like people who believes that virus is manufactured in Wuhan laboratory, he also may believe the same. I don't think he has any concrete evidence for this claim.

 

[Sulla84]

My opinion is , like people who believes that virus is manufactured in Wuhan laboratory, he also may believe the same. I don't think he has any concrete evidence for this claim.

No one has any evidence... Thats not the matter here. When was the last time a senior Indian minister put such a grave allegation on China. India treads on egg shells when speaking about China in the open. The go ahead would have come from PM Modi himself.

 

[Ankit Kumar]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1260836641054302208

Details of Indian ELINT plane Boeing 707 entering Pakistan Airspace

Glitch hoga flight radar ka.

 

[Hellfire]

I had very clearly stated the meaning of capture. Probably you did not read that post and later you too posted that PA has vacated that area.

Following:

Pakistan's count down has started. Wait for details in next 4-5 days. Rawalpindi Corps commander lost Akhnoor Dagger to India and tried to hide his cowardice behind lack of solid response. Pak Army is a divided house now. There may be rebellion within the Pak Army now. Akhnoor is directly under Tenth Corps based in Rawalpindi and Lt. Gen Bilal Akber has turned out to be the biggest coward of them all.

People thought that PoJ&K is their jagir but they do not know that when time gets tough, unhe har baar bhag na padta hai.

I remain very specifically against a trend of chest beating which has been creeping in this forum. Posting nonsense like 'demotion' of Ambassador to Foreign Secretary is a joke.

Similarly capture of territory is far from truth. No two opinions about the tactical advantageous positions taken - but they do not indicate capture of territory.

It is the perception which has been spread here which I do not agree with. Let the narrative be calibrated so as to reflect that which comes with confirmation, as one can confirm and not with a 'done but we will not reveal' tag (although with the very nature of military operations going on, the will not be revealed for quite some time). But you have seen how some members here have literally become morose - questioning the efficacy of strikes.

My aim here remains to calibrate that - and not become PDF where they celebrate everyday as if they are achieving great victories when they are literally hemorrhaging along LC and they remain blissfully unaware.

My own old team mates are roving around, having a good hunting season of both the rare and indigenous game. Few are also ideally located to create spectacular display of fireworks if need be.

But again, I reiterate, intent is not to be a jingoistic platform but to spell out facts as they stand.

I spend time here to make this a credible platform, which can be considered credible by ours and other alike.

I had also stated that AWAC was not in station and I was correct as AWAC was over Punjab and moved up to East J&K later.

Following:

They seem to be testing us and baiting us. But have no heart for a fight. The moment you fly towards J&K and reach Punjab border from anywhere in India, you have to contact "Northern Control". This is somewhere above Patnitop area and this radar looks really deep in Pakistan from a height of over 14k feet. It covers an area right upto Afghan border and also nearly whole of Pak Punjab. It was this radar which first picked up all these fighters engaged in 27th Feb raid. It tracked them right from the time they got airborne. Within about 10 minutes the entire strike package and its intentions were clear to the Indian ADDC located in Punjab which controls the air defence of entire North India. The AWACs and additional fighters were launched to intercept this strike formation if they entered Indian air space.
The engagement between Wg. Cdr. Abhi and F-16 took place in this time when our other intercepters were still getting airborne.

I did not miss M2Ks but did not write about them as they were to the south and over Punjab. They were tracking the M-3/5 of PAF who were acting as bombers. The F-16s were tasked to take out SU-30MKIs. I have only confined my narrative to the absolute presence of mind and cool headedness shown by SU-30MKIs. Remember that AWACs were ordered after the strike was detected. had the AWAC been in air, the entire battle would have been controlled by AWAC and not by GCI officers from an ADDC.

I had posted about use of other assets on ground in Balochistan when @Levina had posted about Abdali. and you are confirming the same from your post #2946.

Is it Iran that is being blamed or India? Do let me know why are you in so much of an urgency to claim any such purported attack which even Pakistan does not blame on India? Any reason?

But I am really surprised to see the kind of authority you claim to have about anything that happens in and around India.

Perhaps difference between being an enthusiast/professional with working knowledge and being someone who had to deal with pertinent subject matter? What do you think?




How about you really address this, below?

@Hellfire, you are respected on this forum but you are way off in many occassions. You are not god's gift to mankind . Get your act together. I am not a fool and I know a lot more than you do. You were wrong on many things. I am not on twitter for reasons I can't explain you. Just an advice.
@Levina.

If you are not on twitter for your reasons, how does it concern me? I am obscure for my reasons. But do they, my reasons for being off public domain, concern you?

You have something to prove your claim of 'assets' being used by us to undertake said attack on TEL, as being claimed, do post them, otherwise, stop buttressing Pakistani claims of India supporting BLA when even their Army says Iran is doing it.

Glitch hoga flight radar ka.

Doubt. Although our assets do cross over at times to roam over their skies, the black trace lines appear suspect in the pic though.

 

[Saaho]

I always say that we need external support in case of full fledged war. With right people at right place,we can win any war. That's why I rate China much higher than anyone else. They are very important for us as well as some other friends.

And whats the reason that you think India will not play the same card? Or for that matter India will not have "right people in right places"? Is that your monopoly?

For instance, with USA? Remember, in 1971 India did exactly the same. It pre-empted the US intervention using Russian might. And 1971 USA was a massive power wrt to anything in the world.

 

[randomradio]

Let us revisit this article:

Army asks Iran to observe principle of non-interference

Army chiefs from both sides "resolved to enhance security measures on either side of the border.”

www.dawn.com

Relevant extracts:

"Gen Bajwa had called Gen Baqeri on Monday to seek action against Baloch separatists, who have allegedly taken up refuge on Iranian soil. The call was made against the backdrop of Friday attack on a Frontier Corps patrol in restive Balochistan in which six troops were martyred. The Baloch Liberation Army has claimed responsibility for the attack.

Pakistani security agencies believe that over the past few years Iranian intelligence services have forged ties with Baloch separatists to counter Iranian militants, who are allegedly having sanctuaries in Pakistan."


Now:

The Coming Crisis Along the Iran-Pakistan Border

Qassem Soleimani’s killing will have trickle down effects that could ramp up Baloch militancy in both countries.

thediplomat.com

Relevant extracts:

'"Soleimani’s death is likely to increase militancy for two reasons. First, his successor, Ismail Qaani, is focused on Iran’s eastern border and on drug cartel movement in the border region. This is highly likely to escalate the tension in the region in the coming years. Second, Baloch Sunni militancy is rearing its head, and Qaani, having been looking after Iran’s priorities in the region, is likely to respond to this trend with more force than his predecessor, Soleimani.'"

and

"Under Soleimani, the Quds Force’s main concern regarding Pakistan was the recruitment of Pakistani Shias to fight in Syria to protect the regime of Syrian President Bashar al-Assad. Iran is said to have increased its footprint in Quetta, the provincial capital of Balochistan, as part of its efforts to recruit Pakistan Shias to join the Zainabiyoun Brigade militia group in Syria. These Shia Muslims pass through illegal border points in Balochistan to reach Iran without Islamabad’s knowledge. From there, they would be dispatched to Syria by the IRGC and Quds Force to fight the rebels opposed to Assad’s regime.

However, Soleimani’s successor Ismail Qaani could adopt a very different – and more dangerous — strategy for the region. Qaani has reportedly looked after Iranian priorities in the east, such as drug trafficking in the border region and aiding Afghanistan’s Northern Alliance in its fight against the Taliban. Under Qaani’s leadership, the Quds Force is likely to foment trouble not only in Middle East but also in Afghanistan and Pakistan. This development has serious implications for the security situation in Afghanistan as well as Iran’s relationship with Pakistan."


There are good reads:

Pakistan-Iran Bilateral Relations: More Growth, But Not Close – Part Two: Saudi Arabia and Balochistan - Future Directions International

There is potential for further deepening of Pakistan-Iran defence ties now that the economic and financial sanctions against Iran have been removed. Islamabad will have to be very careful in how it handles this matter, however, and will need to keep in mind how it would be seen by Saudi Arabia...

www.futuredirections.org.au

Pakistan blames Iran-based separatists for attack – DW – 04/20/2019

Earlier this week, gunmen ambushed a passenger bus in Pakistan's restive Baluchistan province, killing 14 people. It's not the first time Pakistan has blamed Iran-based militants for launching attacks on its soil.

www.dw.com

Saudi Investment in Pakistan Could Further Destabilize Its Border With Iran

Last fall, soon after Prime Minister Imran Khan took office, Pakistan unexpectedly invited Saudi Arabia to join the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor—the big-ticket Pakistan component of China’s huge Belt and Road Initiative. The influx of Saudi money is contributing to insecurity along...

www.worldpoliticsreview.com

Pakistan Receives Warning From Iran not to Join Saudi Proxy War - Turkish Policy Quarterly

Pakistan Receives Warning From Iran not to Join Saudi Proxy War

turkishpolicy.com

Pakistan: Caught in Saudi-Chinese Crosshairs - The Globalist

Suicide attack in Iran frames visit to Pakistan by Saudi crown prince.

www.theglobalist.com

Now let us revisit the issue. A claim of ownership of a supposed attack on a TEL in Pakistan (directly or indirectly). Leave apart the fact that a reciprocal attack would have taken place with a few hours on our own TEL (anyone who has any clue of Indian SFC units, will be able to understand this; not many have a clue though), the point to ponder is why would India risk a retaliation in attacking this way, when there is no war, will 'show our hand' and compromise our asset (if any) in-situ?

To assume and aver to any kind of control over BLA/TTP by any Indian, is blatantly an attempt either to gain 'eyeballs' or to undermine Indian narrative. We know at least one person who did this, our ex-PM Mr Manmohan Singh, at Shram-al-Shaikh, where he went ahead and claimed Indian support to BLA, a patent lie.

BLA stands a proscribed organization today. US proscribed it in 2019. Basic knowledge and some effort to use grey cells, would tell you that we would be shooting ourselves in the foot, if we were to support BLA, a US proscribed organization, while asking US help in FATF and other forums against Pakistani support to proscribed outfits. Does it take too much effort to think for yourself?


I can claim I went on moon - walking on foot. And I can say I stand by my claim.

How much pressure do you think Pakistan will be under if Iran decides to modernise (practically rebuild) their air force after October?

 

[Ankit Kumar]

Doubt. Although our assets do cross over at times to roam over their skies, the black trace lines appear suspect in the pic though.

Crossing LoC has been heard , but this deep over IB. I think only the Mig25 did that in peace times.

 

[randomradio]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1260836641054302208

Details of Indian ELINT plane Boeing 707 entering Pakistan Airspace

Transponder data isn't always 100%. And when that's introduced into an internet app, it gets screwed up even more.

So maybe it did, maybe it didn't (the 707).

 

[vstol Jockey]

Following:







View attachment 15869




Following:









Is it Iran that is being blamed or India? Do let me know why are you in so much of an urgency to claim any such purported attack which even Pakistan does not blame on India? Any reason?





Perhaps difference between being an enthusiast/professional with working knowledge and being someone who had to deal with pertinent subject matter? What do you think?




How about you really address this, below?






If you are not on twitter for your reasons, how does it concern me? I am obscure for my reasons. But do they, my reasons for being off public domain, concern you?

You have something to prove your claim of 'assets' being used by us to undertake said attack on TEL, as being claimed, do post them, otherwise, stop buttressing Pakistani claims of India supporting BLA when even their Army says Iran is doing it.



Doubt. Although our assets do cross over at times to roam over their skies, the black trace lines appear suspect in the pic though.

You have posted these things in the past also and did not post the clarification to these posts at that time itself. I had clarified the word "Capture" and still maintain this.
AWAC not in station is same as not being airborne also for the specific mission. Can you please explain as to why the air battle was controlled from ground and not from AWAC? Let me see how much you know about air defence of India and how the system works.
In any case, we have had detailed discussions on it on PM. No point disecting it over and over again. even on PM, I had told you my point of view and we agreed to disagree.