Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning and F-22 'Raptor' : News & Discussion

randomradio said:
No, you can't have a system where a little bit of corruption is okay. Because there's nobody drawing the "do-not-cross" lines. If even a little bit of corruption happens, then that deal was compromised from the start, and there's no way we are getting what we are paying for.

China is extremely corrupt. We do not have their level of corruption, and we shouldn't either. The Chinese corruption has no checks and balances, there are no "do-not-cross" lines anywhere. That's why they can send thousands of people into work camps for organ harvesting without any legal recourse for the people.
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China does have corruption but they also get the things done. Pretty fast.
We have slightly lower corruption --may be-- but we cann't get anything done.

I will have the former than the later.

I was once reading about how Delhi Metro was implemented. The guy implementing it told the government : "I do not want to deal with any of your beaurocrats and any of your officials or your committees". Delhi Metro was implemented and decently runs.

And yes, there are red-lines in Chinese beauracracy, cross them and you are executed. China executes quite a few people each year.
 
The aircraft which crashed was F-35B. These lift fans have a serious problem. We had very high crash rates in Sea Harriers as the aircraft is more unforgiving than a normal fighter.
 
randomradio said:
This is a good thing. When parties know that people only remember scams and not the good things they do, then scams are the standards that the parties will be judged on. That's why NDA has been so clean. And that's also why Modi has also been so clean.

If you only see the good and stop seeing the bad, then the ones doing the bad things will get away with it. That's basically being blind to what's happening around you.

The point is, if a party does a good job, that was their job anyway. But if a party does bad stuff, then they should be remembered and targeted for it.

Otherwise a party that's been bad will simply come up and say, "Look, we did some good things in the past, so vote for us. Forget about the bad stuff we have done now". That's completely unacceptable.

There are plenty of criminals who also resort to charity and raise a curtain to hide all their filth. But we should always remember that filth first.

Let history remember the good things done. In 50 years, Narasimha Rao may get his own statue.
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Its NOT a good thing.
Because this causes people to reject a competent leader.
Honesty and competence are NOT synonymous.
We Indians have a messed up expectations from our leader-figures. That they must be having "Exemplary character". They must be "Extremely Honest". All of these are susceptible to value signalling.
Somehow, competence never figures in this equation. I will take a corrupt, immoral but EXTREMELY competent leader over a seemingly honest and good-character person because I have a country to run. But then I will like to have really draconian punishments for someone who is involved in a say more than 100 Cr scam.
 
randomradio said:
This part is wrong. The reason why we go for tenders is because we do not know what's out there.

Half the time the military creates requirements that are outdated. Through tenders, they send out RFIs and the vendors tell the forces what they have, and RFPs are created based on that.

In 2008, the IAF had no clue which western fighter is better. There is no standard to judge that in India. But through competition, all the vendors show off the best they have in order to win.

That's why all future deals will be through tenders for both price discovery and tech discovery, but the final deal will be GTG with L1 after the tender is scrapped.
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Well, IAF was asking for Mirages, I think they know what they want. Remember, this is the same IAF which got Su30-MKI designed by Russians and though its implementation is shoddy but to date it is a great plane. I think they knew quite well what was needed.

MMRCA way of selecting fighter made a mess of their requirements. We will be now getting planes in 2019. That is some 16-18 years after requirements. Some countries can make a NEW plane in this kind of timelines. Heck, if we had gone with LM/Boeing/Dassault and went for a completely new design, we would have received our first prototype by 2015.
 
Shajida Khan said:
China does have corruption but they also get the things done. Pretty fast.
We have slightly lower corruption --may be-- but we cann't get anything done.

I will have the former than the later.

I was once reading about how Delhi Metro was implemented. The guy implementing it told the government : "I do not want to deal with any of your beaurocrats and any of your officials or your committees". Delhi Metro was implemented and decently runs.

And yes, there are red-lines in Chinese beauracracy, cross them and you are executed. China executes quite a few people each year.
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The Chinese system of corruption is the last thing you need. It's absolutely terrible.

Look at the vaccine scandal in China.
Chinese parents are leaving the mainland to get vaccines for their babies

Nobody has been punished for it, since the people doing it are part of the ruling party.

Trust me, you don't want Chinese corruption for the sake of a bit of infrastructure.
 
Shajida Khan said:
Well, IAF was asking for Mirages, I think they know what they want. Remember, this is the same IAF which got Su30-MKI designed by Russians and though its implementation is shoddy but to date it is a great plane. I think they knew quite well what was needed.

MMRCA way of selecting fighter made a mess of their requirements. We will be now getting planes in 2019. That is some 16-18 years after requirements. Some countries can make a NEW plane in this kind of timelines. Heck, if we had gone with LM/Boeing/Dassault and went for a completely new design, we would have received our first prototype by 2015.
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When it comes to these things, it's never that simple.

The requirement was for a proven aircraft anyway, but the tender route is the best method.
 
Lockheed's F-35 Wins Pentagon Approval for Full Combat Testing

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...ins-pentagon-approval-for-full-combat-testing

BUT :
  • Tests to begin despite more than 900 ‘unresolved deficiencies
  • Results are crucial for approval of full production in 2019
"Despite some improvements, the combat testing will start with a “large amount of unresolved” software and hardware deficiencies “that will likely have a cumulative effect on F-35 mission capability,” during the exercises, Behler said."
 
US military grounds all F-35 jets

The US military has temporarily grounded its entire fleet of F-35 fighter jets in the wake of a crash in South Carolina last month.​
Inspections are to be carried out on faulty fuel tubes.​
An official report questioned earlier this year whether the F-35 was ready for combat after dozens of faults were found.​
The F-35 is the largest and most expensive weapons programme of its type in the world.​
The programme is expected to last several decades and global sales are projected to be 3,000. The US government's accountability office estimates all costs associated with the project will amount to one trillion dollars.​
In a statement, the F-35 Joint Program Office said the US and its international partners had suspended flight operations while a fleet-wide inspection of fuel tubes was conducted.​
"If suspect fuel tubes are installed, the part will be removed and replaced. If known good fuel tubes are already installed, then those aircraft will be returned to flight status.​
"Inspections are expected to be completed within the next 24 to 48 hours."​
 
F-22s Left Behind at Tyndall During Hurricane Likely Damaged: Air Force
​
The U.S. Air Force anticipates that a number of F-22 Raptors left behind at Tyndall Air Force Base, Florida, during Hurricane Michael were damaged by the storm, an official said Friday.​
"A number of aircraft were left behind in hangars due to maintenance or safety reasons, and all of those hangars are damaged," Air Force spokeswoman Ann Stefanek said in a statement. "We anticipate the aircraft parked inside may be damaged as well, but we won't know the extent until our crews can safely enter those hangars and make an assessment."​
Neither the extent of the damage nor how many fighters were left behind was disclosed.​
Officials also did not describe what maintenance was taking place that led officials to leave the jets at Tyndall instead of moving them to Wright-Patterson Air Force Base, Ohio, where other F-22s from the 325th Fighter Wing moved earlier this week.​
The damage could hamper operations for the already dwindling Raptor fleet as the Defense Department aims to restore its fighter readiness rates.​
While some aircraft have come out of active status for testing purposes, the Air Force has 183 of the Lockheed Martin Corp.-made F-22s in its inventory today. More than 160 belong to active-duty units; the remainder are with Air National Guard elements. Four aircraft were lost or severely damaged between 2004 and 2012.​
The Pentagon last estimated the F-22 unit cost at $139 million in 2009, roughly $163 million in today's money. The last F-22 was delivered in 2011. But in a classified report submitted to Congress last year, the Air Force estimated it would cost "$206 million to $216 million per aircraft" should it ever want to restart the production line for newer, more advanced F-22s.​
The DoD said that would amount to approximately "$50 billion to procure 194 additional F-22s."​
Roughly 120 fifth-generation stealth Raptors are combat-coded, or authorized to perform in wartime operations, at any given time. But the platform's mission-capable rate has decreased over the years.​
According to Defense News' fiscal 2017 statistics, F-22s had a 49.01 percent mission-capable rate, meaning less than half were flyable at any given time. In 2014, more than three-quarters of F-22s were deemed mission capable.​
The Pentagon wants to increase readiness rates for the F-22, F-16, F-35 and F/A-18 to 80 percent by next September -- a 31 percent bump for the Raptor alone.​
In July, the Government Accountability Office said the F-22 is frequently underutilized, mainly due to maintenance challenges and fewer opportunities for pilot training, as well as the fleet's inefficient organizational structure.​
Just this week, an F-22 at Alaska's Joint Base Elmendorf-Richardson made an emergency landing on a base runway. Photos showed the jet, from the 3rd Wing, leaning on its left side, which the Air Force said was the result of a landing gear malfunction.​
The latest incident comes months after an F-22, also assigned to JBER's 3rd Wing, experienced engine failure April 6 during a routine training flight at Tyndall. Days preceding the engine failure, another F-22 experienced a belly skid at Naval Air Station Fallon, Nevada.​
-- Oriana Pawlyk can be reached at [email protected]. Follow her on Twitter at @Oriana0214.​
 
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France has a habit from withdrawing from competitions before the final verdict delivers a prestige blow to the Rafale/
 
sunstersun said:
France has a habit from withdrawing from competitions before the final verdict delivers a prestige blow to the Rafale/
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They didn't withdrew, they simply didn't followed the proper tender and proposed a side offer. Not following tender rules is indeed a habit of Dassault.
 
A Person said:
Than the Typhoon? Perhaps. But even then, I doubt it when you take operating costs into account.
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The unit procurement cost for the air force version went down considerably, but operating costs remain high.
It offers stealth and Belgium can retain the nuclear role, other than that, it doesn't offer much over EF. Sad decision if true, but not unexpected the way the tender went.
 
Bon Plan said:
So was the SH18.
So was the Gripen.

But these are not french, so it's not interesting for you ( = usual french bashing).
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The difference is I know the SH18 and Gripen are inferior to the F-35. I don't try to claim different.

I really don't hold any biases against the French.
 
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