No need to ask this question of you. It's a given. You aren't that abusive and are too much fun not to read. However it is a pointless task, to try and reason very much with you. You really don't know enough, to even understand what you google.
Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning and F-22 'Raptor' : News & Discussion
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Is this because the Rafale, as reported, uses binoculars in the back seat for situational awareness? The guy can look through the binoculars and keep track of them. It is a wonder why this feature wasn't pushed harder to India. They only got the single seat. They seem to be at a real disadvantage?
With the SCAF, that will be a single seat. Does that mean it can only handle half as many french wingman, as the Rafale?
I won't debate the comparison with the F-35. The CONOPS aren't fully developed. So I'd be making it up, like a Rafale fanboy.
the confusion here seems to be over the word upgrade.One can upgrade a radar without total replacement of the radarupgrade
ŭp′grād″
intransitive verb
- To raise to a higher grade or standard.
- To replace (a software program) with a more recently released, enhanced version.
- To replace (a hardware device) with one that provides better performance.
Upgrade is a very broad term. and by the first definition these aircraft are routinely upgraded. to include the new missiles that were mentioned meant the aircraft systems had to be upgraded to add the missile's capability.
F-16s get upgraded all the time to the point where there are several different sets of acroynyms being applied, and this is without counting the standard upgrades they get with things like software patches.
trying to have it both ways. on one side its "we can't judge an aircraft just because it has the latest and most sophisticated feature" on the other side the F-22 is old and the US is hoping to delay a Taiwan invasion!
please use your own definition of "context" The B-2 is 1980s tech but China has no equivalent to the B-2. The F-22 has far more sophisticated engines than J-20. One of the marks of the "LM marketing term generation" is not just that they have sophisticated electronics, but how those electronics interact and work in synergy to create situation awareness and ISR from the pilot all the way to the Generals to all the other weapon systems in the area land, sea, and air. The latest F-18C hornet upgrade have GaN AESA. that doesn't mean that now an F-18 is more advanced than an F-22.
You may have to kind of create a set standard. even the very unique situation of Taiwan creates an extremely complicated warplan that is not at all a matter of "the J-20 has better radar so now the American's are scared" The Japanese had better aircraft than the Americans at the start of world war II and the US adapted tactics to defeat them, along with thousands of other things that lead to victory over Japan, from ball bearings to Submarines. the assessment today would be "Japan has the zero, and the US is toast" not even close. and we don't even know if the J-20 is a "zero" Experience matters. When was the last time the Chinese did a full blown coordinated aerial attack on an Integrated air defense system? Ukraine has proven that war is unpredictable. Easy targets are not always easy, and a lack of experience carries a steep learning curve. Simulations were saying Kiev was supposed to fall in 48 hours. its been over a year now.
I don't think we should underestimate China, but I think we should realistically assess their capabilities and understand their tactical challenges and limitations even they know they have a long way to go, and they do. There are so many different ways to make China miserable, and they are not all from the United States either (india can do a number on them) The most helpful thing that China has done is scared the hell out of their neighbors and unite them against China. China is under the false impression that if the US is removed everyone will become their new best friends, not at all the case. Even a lot of Americans are making the mistake of assessing US Vs China, as opposed to US+allies Vs China. US+allies changes the picture enormously, and even if one says "Well we aren't a US ally!" fine, but many are no friends of china either
F-35 have already been in combat
That's not how upgrades works. Let me make it simpler. Adding a spoiler to a car is not an engine upgrade, even if it decreases drag and reduces the stress on the engine. The F-22 has not received a core upgrade since it was introduced, it's only received add-ons that were pre-planned for introduction as they were developed, like a new software mode or a new weapon.
If the J-20 is really all that it's cracked up to be, irrespective of all the ridiculous Western assessments that have assumed the Chinese are dumb, the F-22 is gonna really, really struggle against it.
The F-35 is not ready to fight a war at the intensity it has been designed for. Which is why two things have not happened, the announcement of FOC by air forces, including the USAF, and the start of full rate production, both go hand-in-hand. What that means is the F-35 has not been cleared for full spectrum combat duty, it only has limited capability. In layman's terms, the F-35 has a 5th gen airframe and 5th gen avionics, but 4th gen computing and limited software, which is why it's not ready for FOC.
The F-35 today is like a stealthy version of the F-16. It has a stealth airframe, larger sensors and is as performant as the F-16, so it does some things phenomenally well versus the Teens. But the problem is that's only its minimum expected capabilities. The fact that the new computer upgrade will give it 25 times more juice means the current lot flying today are powered by a computer that's 25 times weaker than it's supposed to be. So it's a given that its current capabilities are nowhere near the objective.
I would like the original source but I would also like to avoid reinforcing the same false narrative that has lead the french to this nonsensical trap.
Supercruise was never a requirement of the JSF, so why would LM pursue something that was never a requirement to begin with?
and since it was never a requirement, when did LM "realize" that the airplane they never designed to supercruise, could not supercruise?
That would be clear back in 1995 for JSF, or 2001 for LM when they won the JSF contract, years before the first "F-35" would take off in 2006.
in 2001 LM wins the JSF contract. JSF is not going to supercruise like the F-22. This is why I wonder when LM allegedely said these things. LM always knew the F-35 would never supercruise, so why would they say these things to begin with?
I thought 5th gen was just a "marketing term" remember?
they can't even decide what is "marketing" and what is an actual design "target."
You just changed your magical "context" again. You said the F-35 couldn't go into combat until FOC. I pointed out that the F-35 has already been in combat. You then changed things
now perhaps I am being too picky, but I also can't read your mind and what you intended to mean. What it looks like to me under this "context" is that you are playing fast and loose with definitions. you need to be a little more precise with your words. We are going to end up in the same communications problems over and over.
64 over Finland, 36 over Switzerland. You know F-35 has been to combat so don't play dumb please. Am I saying Syria is like China? no. Am I saying combat tours have already been recorded and are a matter of historical record? yes.
Damn ! This seems to have become a bi annual or tri annual affair with RST I've noticed. Every now & then some newbie comes along & takes RST to the cleaners . That he has everything from his academic qualifications to his grasp over the language to his integrity questioned is a bonus.
The real killer here is RST getting a dose of his own medication as far as obfuscation , conjecture , goal post shifting etc goes. You should be reading this entire conversation . @Bali78
The real killer here is RST getting a dose of his own medication as far as obfuscation , conjecture , goal post shifting etc goes. You should be reading this entire conversation . @Bali78
What I mean is that combat is not operation. You can be a soldier your all life without seing not a single combat. Yes F-35 are used in QRA or to have ELINT, that's operations. But No F-35 had to fire a missile.
Israeli F-35's you fool. Do some research.
Also...
Did you know the F-35 is proven in combat with six services having employed the aircraft in combat operations or NATO missions? Highlighted below are some of the ways the F-35 is delivering impressive results for the warfighter today.
- The U.S. Air Force’s 34th Fighter Generation Squadron recently completed exercise Red Flag 21-1 without losing a single F-35A sortie to a maintenance issue.
- The U.S. Air Force also recently flew F-35As more than 4,700 miles from Alaska – from negative 30 to 85 degrees Fahrenheit – to Guam for exercise Cope North 2021, where F-35s conducted Agile Combat Employment training on an austere airfield.
- The U.S. Air Force deployed the F-35 to the U.S. Central Command area of responsibility for 18 consecutive months and the jet delivered operationally: 42 jets, 1,100 airmen, 1,319 sorties, 352 total weapons dropped and 3,774 25MM rounds expended.
- The Royal Norwegian Air Force fighter detachment has wrapped up the second deployment of the F-35 fighter aircraft to executed NATO’s Air Policing mission in Iceland.
The F-35 is Combat Ready and Combat Proven
Did you know the F-35 is proven in combat with six services having employed the aircraft in combat operations or NATO missions? Learn how the F-35 is delivering impressive results for the warfighter today.
Raptor pilots test AF's next-gen helmet
Developmental flight tests are underway for the Air Force’s new Next Generation Fixed Wing Helmet. The NGFWH program goal is to provide pilots a more comfortable, stable, and balanced platform to
www.acc.af.mil
Only the Israeli Adir's have done any sort of combat operations. Only the American and Japanese f-35's have similar sorts of experience with the f-35 after Israel.
Romania announces it'll buy F-35s, in the shadow of Russian 'aggression' - Breaking Defense
The move comes as the country looks to up defense spending and modernize its military forces in the wake of Russia's invasion of neighboring Ukraine.
That's training not even operations.
That's ferrying and training as stated is your citation.
That's deployment, some sorts of weapons training during the deployments. But not combat.
That's deployment, not combat.
1319 sorties in 18 months, that's 2.5 sorties per day, for 42 aircraft which is not much. We would do that with 10 planes.
How does one explain to Bubba J the difference between ADVANCED CONCEPTS like product development / enhancement & a product maturity ?
The more evidence Bubba J provides in what Bubba J believes is something which'd vindicate his / her position that the Lightnings are battle ready the more he exposes his / her position .
Then Bubba J gets mighty pissed off when I call this trailer park level analysis . @Innominate
LM's marketing brochures of the time didn't take into account the F-35, 'cause it didn't exist. LM removed both TVC and supercruise when the F-35 became their poster boy.
Marketing brochures and slogans change based on the product.
Can you please tell me which country it went into combat with? What sort of air force does the enemy have? What sort of targets were taken out? How many enemy aircraft were shot down?
Lol. You can go to combat with limited capability too, that's called IOC.
There are two levels of clearance, initial and final.
Debuts, Finally
Grant of initial operational clearance has definitely flagged a major milestone for the F-35 programme as it has been declared technically ready for operational deployment
www.sps-aviation.com
Reality:
The F-35 Stealth Fighter May Never Be Ready for Combat
Testing report contradicts the U.S. Air Force’s rosy pronouncements
In several instances, the memo rated the F-35A less capable than the aircraft we already have.
The head of the Pentagon recognized the American F-35 fighter jet as a “piece of crap” - Geek Tech Online
Aviation Week & Space Technologypublished an article in which Pentagon chief Christopher Miller, shortly before his resignation, spoke impartially about the American F-35 fighter, calling its creation program a “piece of crap.” In its material, the publication refers to the words of former...
geektech.me
As it stands now, the F-35 is cleared for combat in a permissible environment. In a hostile environment, where the enemy also has fighter jets trying to kill the F-35, it's not yet cleared for combat duties.
So "cleared for combat" is based on context. Simply put, it can kill terrorists in the desert who can't shoot back, but not the Russians or Chinese. So when they say it's been in combat, they are talking about the former, not near-peer adversaries. It achieved the former in 2015. As for final clearance, FOC, it's possibly many years away in reality, 'cause that requires full release of Block 4 capabilities, ie, 2029 or so at the minimum.
Lockheed Martin to upgrade F-35 mission data lab for Australia, Canada, and UK
The US Department of Defense (DoD) has contracted Lockheed Martin to establish full operating capability (FOC) of the Australia Canada United Kingdom Reprogramming...
www.janes.com
New Electronic Warfare Suite Top Feature Of F-35 Block 4, Air Combat Boss Says
The F-35's Block 4 upgrade has many features, but Air Combat Command's commander says its electronic warfare abilities will be most critical.
www.thedrive.com
F-35 Flies for the First Time with Tech Refresh 3, Paving the Way for Block 4 | Air & Space Forces Magazine
An F-35 flew with the Tech Refresh 3 upgrade for the first time, a crucial step in planned upgrades for the fighter jet.
www.airandspaceforces.com
Yeah, so it's gonna take until 2029 at the minimum to make it combat ready, ie, true FOC. The original date was 2022, which was then split into 2022 and 2024 in two phases, which was then pushed to 2026, and now we are at 2029, and it's guaranteed to get pushed into the next decade.
So, no, the F-35 can get deployed into combat today, but it will only get killed in a fight against Russia or China... 'cause "Most of what we need the F-35 to do rests on the Block 4 electronic warfare capabilities"
Do you purposely play dumb or does it come naturally? What the hell does, 1,319 sorties, 352 total weapons dropped and 3,774 25MM rounds expended, mean in Frog? The tittle of article says Combat Ready and Combat PROVEN then goes on to say how many weapons it dropped during its 1319 sorties the F-35 flew, but your froggy brain tells you that means training? Oy vey!
And I like how you leave out Israel F-35's that has been penetrating Syrian IADS and Russian S400s to bomb Hezbo positions.
But it didn't said if some goats or cows were injured or if it was hezbos ? Perhaps a nice mokeup ? No claim nowhere !