Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning and F-22 'Raptor' : News & Discussion

Innominate said:
The Israelis will likely use them to strike deep inside Iran.
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As you would know..While the F-35 has basically increased its internal fuel to be equivalent to drop tanks. So any criticism of the F-35 on internal fuel is mute. I don't know of a fighter that has a bigger range on internal fuel than the f-35. The F-22 has a shorter range and actually needs drop tanks, to match the F-35 internal range.
Funny how no one criticised the F-22 :)

However they are looking at the new F-22 drop tanks to be used on the F-35.
www.thedefensepost.com

F-22 Stealth Fuel Tanks Could Be Adapted for Other Aircraft

The low-drag external fuel tanks and pylons Lockheed is developing for the F-22 could be integrated with other fighter jets, such as the F-35.
www.thedefensepost.com www.thedefensepost.com
the LDTP’s new efficient design would leave “very little, if any, radar cross-section disruption compared to a ‘clean’ F-22 once the tanks and pylons are jettisoned.”
Similarly, the stealth tanks and pylons could provide similar capability upgrades to the F-35 “while simultaneously reducing the burden on aerial tankers,”
 
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At IOC, it was anticipated that FOC would be achieved in 2022-2023, while an additional tranche of up to 30 jets was then still under consideration.
www.flightglobal.com

F-35A software delays push back Australian full operational capability

Deliveries of the Royal Australian Air Force's final batch of Lockheed Martin F-35A Lightning II fighters is expected to resume following the release of a "truncated" Technical Refresh 3 (TR-3) upgrade by the Joint Strike Fighter Project Office (JPO).
www.flightglobal.com www.flightglobal.com

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Since then, deliveries have continued, and the RAAF now has two fighter squadrons and an operational conversion unit based at RAAF Williamtown, north of Sydney, as well as a fighter squadron based at RAAF Tindal, near Darwin in the north of the country.

The final nine aircraft were to have been rotated through the fleet as attrition spares and to cover deeper maintenance of aircraft at BAE Systems’ regional maintenance centre at Williamtown.

Since IOC, RAAF F-35As have travelled to Alaska and Nevada to participate in Red Flag exercises, and to Japan, the Philippines, Malaysia, Singapore, and Indonesia to participate in several regional exercises.

But the Australian government’s National Defence Strategy and accompanying Integrated Investment Plan released in April this year saw the additional tranche of F-35As abandoned.

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Herciv said:
At IOC, it was anticipated that FOC would be achieved in 2022-2023, while an additional tranche of up to 30 jets was then still under consideration.
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FOC was when all the 72 arrived, making Full Operational Capability. Some systems are foc 'Final OC'. TR3 delay means that the final aircraft should arrive before xmas or possibly early next year. We are stopping at 72 and looking at 6th gen. At this stage there are no decissions made and infact could be another 24 F-35. Replacing the Super Hornet, when they retire. 2025 was going to be the decision year, however the SH retirement has been extended with block lll, well past the previous proposed 2030 retirement
 
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Optimist said:
FOC was when all the 72 arrived, making Full Operational Capability. Some systems are foc 'Final OC'. TR3 delay means that the final aircraft should arrive before xmas or possibly early next year. We are stopping at 72 and looking at 6th gen. At this stage there are no decissions made and infact could be another 24 F-35. Replacing the Super Hornet, when they retire. 2025 was going to be the decision year, however the SH retirement has been extended with block lll, well past the previous proposed 2030 retirement
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RAAF should have just extended the service life of the Hornets and gone all in on the NGAD.

Then you could have had a formidable force of 2 NGAD squadrons apart from the SH in time to face Chinese aggression, or just waited patiently for the F-35 to finish development.

Now you have old crap that cannot fight the Chinese. And soon, Indonesia will have a superior air force with the Rafale and IF-X.
 
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randomradio said:
RAAF should have just extended the service life of the Hornets
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As I said in the post. We are extending the combat life of the Super Hornets with block lll
The next buy of whatever, will be to replace the Super hornets. We bought them in 2010, so even a 2050 retirement isn't out of the question. It all depends on what is needed.

Australia Starts Looking Beyond The F-35 For Next-Gen Fighter Needs | Aviation Week Network

Next-generation fighters will be available when Australia searches for a replacement for a squadron of Boeing F/A-18E/Fs in the mid-2030s.
aviationweek.com aviationweek.com
 
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Optimist said:
As I said in the post. We are extending the combat life of the Super Hornets with block lll
The next buy of whatever, will be to replace the Super hornets. We bought them in 2010, so even a 2050 retirement isn't out of the question. It all depends on what is needed.

Australia Starts Looking Beyond The F-35 For Next-Gen Fighter Needs | Aviation Week Network

Next-generation fighters will be available when Australia searches for a replacement for a squadron of Boeing F/A-18E/Fs in the mid-2030s.
aviationweek.com aviationweek.com
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I was referring to the Hornets, not the SH.

The bigger issue is the not-up-to-spec F-35As that cannot fight the Chinese as per the Pentagon's own opinion. I mean, that's what you've bought them for.
 
Optimist said:
The Hornets are long gone.

Enjoy your delusions about the F-35.
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The Hornet miss was a failure in hindsight. Upgrading it back then would have delayed the F-35 option by a decade. With Hornets leaving in 2031, you could have made your decision for NGADs right about now.

It's not my delusions. Most of the RAAF F-35s have only 14 kW of cooling, upgradeable to 47 kW at significant cost to engine life. And to go beyond Block 4, RAAF needs to strip the jet apart and rebuild it, even upgrade or replace the engine depending on what's gonna be decided over the next few years.

An Insider’s View Of Options To Fix The F-35’s Cooling Crisis | Aviation Week Network

The fighter needs more cooling system capacity to keep electronics from overheating, but long-term requirements may entail major changes.
aviationweek.com aviationweek.com
A difficult decision looms for the leadership of the Lockheed Martin F-35 program. A major upgrade of the stealth jet’s overloaded cooling system is coming, but should program officials scope the improved thermal management system to address future needs, or should they scope it merely to solve the immediate overheating issues?

The answer could make the difference between a relatively straightforward upgrade and a far more intrusive modification, according to Honeywell Defense and Space, the supplier of the existing power and thermal management system (PTMS) for the F-35.

  • Upgrades may address different waste heat levels
  • Block 4 upgrade program will worsen cooling shortfall
Matt Milas, president of Honeywell Defense and Space, says he is concerned that program officials are favoring the more radical upgrade option, which he warns would require replacing the cooling system’s “plumbing”—the network of tubes bearing a liquid coolant that snakes through the F-35’s interior, including through the jet’s load-carrying bulkheads.

“That presents a lot of problems because now you have to swap out some of the plumbing,” Milas tells Aviation Week. “When you swap out the plumbing, you have to take the skins off the wings and things like that.”

F-35 designers assumed the electronics would need to handle no more than 14 kW of waste heat.

Instead of requiring 14 kW of cooling capacity, the Block 3F F-35 demanded up to 32 kW.

The cooling shortfall is widening as the Block 4 upgrade program adds more powerful electronics and sensors. The improvements have increased the requirement for the cooling system to handle up to 47 kW of waste heat. Furthermore, classified upgrades envisioned for the 2030s could drive the requirement up to at least 62 kW—and perhaps as high as 80 kW.
 
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Solange anechoic chamber to develop SPECTRA​
 
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One of the highlights of the visit is the Solange base. So high, that at 2 meters, it could fit inside two of the Louvre's pyramids! 40 meters high and 60 meters in diameter, it is normally used to evaluate aircraft stealth. And to ensure that this stealth aircraft “will be no bigger than a bird on the radar by 2030”, a great deal of research is being undertaken. 15 of the 29 workshops on the tour are concentrated in this giant space.


Build in 1982 : 40 years ago ...

Bâtiment Solange, CELAR, Bruz (Ille-et-Vilaine)

silo de grand hauteur sur plan circulaire avec bâtiments accolés à rez-de-chaussée, dont la fonction est inconnue.
archiwebture.citedelarchitecture.fr archiwebture.citedelarchitecture.fr
 
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randomradio said:
The Hornet miss was a failure in hindsight. Upgrading it back then would have delayed the F-35 option by a decade. With Hornets leaving in 2031, you could have made your decision for NGADs right about now.
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You continue to show us what you don't know. The old Hornet is obsolete in the modern battlefield. We went with the F-35. There was and currently is, nothing better to buy.

The F-35 is no exception. Aircraft are updated, as new requirements emerge. You are currently doing so with your SU's

The upgraded to block 3 Super Hornets and Growlers are said to be retired in 2040. We will start looking for its replacement from 2030.
 
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Optimist said:
You continue to show us what you don't know. The old Hornet is obsolete in the modern battlefield. We went with the F-35. There was and currently is, nothing better to buy.
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Versus who?

The US is upgrading their Hornets. It's the first Western jet with a GaN radar.

www.ainonline.com

AESA Radar for ‘Classic’ Hornet Fighter Makes First Flight | AIN

The APG-79(V)4 radar is being procured in an upgrade effort to ensure that the U.S. Marine Corps Hornet fighters can meet the planned "sundown" date.
www.ainonline.com www.ainonline.com

Optimist said:
The F-35 is no exception. Aircraft are updated, as new requirements emerge. You are currently doing so with your SU's
Click to expand...

You're missing the point.

The F-35s owned by RAAF cannot carry new upgrdes beyond some Block 4 technologies without significant rebuilds is the point. Our Su-30s will undergo such a rebuild but after 25 years of service. Your F-35s need to undergo the same upgrade within 10 years.

Only newly produced F-35s will be upgradeable. So Canada, Finland etc. That's why the RAAF seem to have blocked the last squadron, they probably did not want multiple customizations of the aircraft. Such a waste of time and money.

All RAAF had to do was extend the Hornets by a decade, and place orders for the F-35s around now, and get the upgradeable versions like Canada. And instead of F-35s, RAAF could have jumped straight on to NGAD. And this would have happened at the same time China would have gained the capability to threaten Australia.

Now you gotta deal with China with less capable F-35s.
 
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randomradio said:
Versus who?

The US is upgrading their Hornets. It's the first Western jet with a GaN radar.

www.ainonline.com

AESA Radar for ‘Classic’ Hornet Fighter Makes First Flight | AIN

The APG-79(V)4 radar is being procured in an upgrade effort to ensure that the U.S. Marine Corps Hornet fighters can meet the planned "sundown" date.
www.ainonline.com www.ainonline.com



You're missing the point.

The F-35s owned by RAAF cannot carry new upgrdes beyond some Block 4 technologies without significant rebuilds is the point. Our Su-30s will undergo such a rebuild but after 25 years of service. Your F-35s need to undergo the same upgrade within 10 years.

Only newly produced F-35s will be upgradeable. So Canada, Finland etc. That's why the RAAF seem to have blocked the last squadron, they probably did not want multiple customizations of the aircraft. Such a waste of time and money.

All RAAF had to do was extend the Hornets by a decade, and place orders for the F-35s around now, and get the upgradeable versions like Canada. And instead of F-35s, RAAF could have jumped straight on to NGAD. And this would have happened at the same time China would have gained the capability to threaten Australia.

Now you gotta deal with China with less capable F-35s.
Click to expand...
www.afr.com

Ukraine to Australia: ‘We don’t want your flying trash’

During two years of war, Australia and Ukraine have struggled to get beyond mutual incomprehension.
www.afr.com www.afr.com

The F-35 is the best jet you can buy today.
 
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