What's with the racist overtones , chump ? Can't you be civil ? Or are you itching to have your *censored* whooped ?
Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning and F-22 'Raptor' : News & Discussion
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There's nothing impressive about beating the F-15's range. It's the worst out of all TE 4th gen aircraft in existence today.
How the U.S. Air Force Trains for a War with Russia (or Russian Fighters)
A Flanker was spotted engaged in a dogfight over the Nellis Air Force Base, Nevada, range with against an F-16.
nationalinterest.org
“I had no idea I was going to be supersonic for 25 minutes…We climbed up to 20,000ft at 0.9 Mach and did some checks on the engines and then the next thing we were going to do was climb to 35,000ft and be at 1.35 Mach for the Mach lever checks, very similar the [Pratt & Whitney] TF30 [on the F-14A Tomcat]–you’re going to bring the throttle back to idle when you’re supersonic and it’s going to make sure the RPM stays high up enough to prevent an engine stall,” Gallop said. “We finish up at 20,000ft and I’m expecting to climb at 0.9 to 35,000 and accelerate to 1.35 Mach… Oh no… We just plug in the blowers, pull the nose up, accelerate to 1.35 in the climb, level at 35,000ft, check the engines, blowers back in, accelerate to 1.55, climbed it up to 47,000ft, and then we just brought it back to min burner.”
The jet stayed supersonic for much longer than expected. “We brought it back to min burner, but I’m cruising at 1.3 Mach,” Gallop said. The two-seat Flanker was clean and it was demilitarized–which means it weighed about 3000lbs less than the typical stock Su-27, but nonetheless, the jet was impressively fast especially at high altitude. Slowing the Flanker down after almost 25 minutes of supersonic flight also showed interesting results.
“I take it out of burner and I’m just at mil power and the speed dropped down to–I was still supersonic,” Gallop said. “By the time we got done, 25 minutes supersonic, I looked at the gas and go ‘you know I could turn around fly back the way I came supersonic and still have a normal amount of gas left to land.’”
Here we are talking about the F-35 doing barely 10 min of supersonic flight and a USN F-14 pilot who flew the Su-27 claims he can comfortably manage a 50-minute flight supersonic on the Flanker. Please stop comparing the F-35's performance to 4th gen fighters, it can get really embarrassing for the F-35 designers.
The only thing really special on the F-35 is its stealth design, which will work only for a few more years anyway, since the aircraft is not going to be a stealth aircraft forever. Its avionics are now pretty much standard for a modernised 4th gen aircraft. Even the F-16V and F-15EX are getting similar avionics now. In fact the F-15EX's EW suite is superior to the one on the F-35.
Fact: An IAF official stated that while the stealth of the F-35 in its current form will be overcome in 5–10 years, the aircraft will be in service for 30–40 years, and that is the reason that Israel insisted on the ability to make its own changes to the aircraft's electronic warfare systems.
Wow you're not too bright are you? Did you even read your own article? The flanker was CLEAN and DEMILITARIZED which weighed 3000lb less than a militarized flanker in a clean configuration. Lol. What world do you live in? Maybe you're running a fever from that chicom virus, eh? Take all the guts out the F-35 and its RAM and it will dance around a Flanker.There's nothing impressive about beating the F-15's range. It's the worst out of all TE 4th gen aircraft in existence today.
Years ago, I spoke to Gerry Gallop—a former Grumman F-14 Tomcat pilot—who travelled to Ukraine to help purchase the two Su-27s. Gallop was impressed with the sheer performance of the Soviet-built jet.How the U.S. Air Force Trains for a War with Russia (or Russian Fighters)
A Flanker was spotted engaged in a dogfight over the Nellis Air Force Base, Nevada, range with against an F-16.
“I had no idea I was going to be supersonic for 25 minutes…We climbed up to 20,000ft at 0.9 Mach and did some checks on the engines and then the next thing we were going to do was climb to 35,000ft and be at 1.35 Mach for the Mach lever checks, very similar the [Pratt & Whitney] TF30 [on the F-14A Tomcat]–you’re going to bring the throttle back to idle when you’re supersonic and it’s going to make sure the RPM stays high up enough to prevent an engine stall,” Gallop said. “We finish up at 20,000ft and I’m expecting to climb at 0.9 to 35,000 and accelerate to 1.35 Mach… Oh no… We just plug in the blowers, pull the nose up, accelerate to 1.35 in the climb, level at 35,000ft, check the engines, blowers back in, accelerate to 1.55, climbed it up to 47,000ft, and then we just brought it back to min burner.”
The jet stayed supersonic for much longer than expected. “We brought it back to min burner, but I’m cruising at 1.3 Mach,” Gallop said. The two-seat Flanker was clean and it was demilitarized–which means it weighed about 3000lbs less than the typical stock Su-27, but nonetheless, the jet was impressively fast especially at high altitude. Slowing the Flanker down after almost 25 minutes of supersonic flight also showed interesting results.
“I take it out of burner and I’m just at mil power and the speed dropped down to–I was still supersonic,” Gallop said. “By the time we got done, 25 minutes supersonic, I looked at the gas and go ‘you know I could turn around fly back the way I came supersonic and still have a normal amount of gas left to land.’”
Here we are talking about the F-35 doing barely 10 min of supersonic flight and a USN F-14 pilot who flew the Su-27 claims he can comfortably manage a 50-minute flight supersonic on the Flanker. Please stop comparing the F-35's performance to 4th gen fighters, it can get really embarrassing for the F-35 designers.
The only thing really special on the F-35 is its stealth design, which will work only for a few more years anyway, since the aircraft is not going to be a stealth aircraft forever. Its avionics are now pretty much standard for a modernised 4th gen aircraft. Even the F-16V and F-15EX are getting similar avionics now. In fact the F-15EX's EW suite is superior to the one on the F-35.
Fact: An IAF official stated that while the stealth of the F-35 in its current form will be overcome in 5–10 years, the aircraft will be in service for 30–40 years, and that is the reason that Israel insisted on the ability to make its own changes to the aircraft's electronic warfare systems.
Nobody cares outside India what an IAF official's opinion is on US stealth fighters. India has never even smelled much less sat in a stealth fighter. Btw U.S, china, Russia and Europe disagrees with this IAF boob who doesn't know what he's talking about. Or it could be he's trying to ease the Indian peoples mind knowing India will not be flying any stealth fighters anytime soon like their chicom enemies across the border. There's a reason why many nations are flying the F-35 and nations that are not offered the F-35 fly Gripen, Flanker or Rafail. Only first world nations fly the F-35 and that is a fact. Indian Rafail will not last against the chicoms since Rafail with tanks and bombs will have the RCS of a house and fly like a brick. J-20s will eat them like a bowl of rice. Stop talking out of your butt and get educated.
This is how dopey you are. Navy was never getting 1000 F-35C they are getting 273 including USMC F-35C. That equals to 27 F-35C per Carrier meaning two squadrons of F-35C per Carrier just like the 80's and 90's when our Carriers had two squadrons of F-14s on each carrier. 6th gen will replace the F-18E.
Forget it. You don't know anything about this subject.
You were obviously living under a rock.
Firstly, this is what they were dreaming of.
After the F-35, the Navy Will Make Its Next Fighter Without the Air Force
The service has decided its fighter requirements are different than the Air Force’s.
It didn't happen because the USN pointed out the F-35C isn't capable of replacing the SH.
So, yes, they were so impressed by the F-35C that when Lock Mart proposed to make a more capable F-35C to replace the SHs for F/A-XX, the USN flatly rejected it.
Then they pointed out that stealth may be overrated.
A top US Navy top officer thinks that one of the F-35's most hyped capabilities is 'overrated' | Business Insider India
REUTERS/Mike BlakeA Lockheed Martin Corp's F-35C Joint Strike Fighter is shown on the deck of the USS Nimitz aircraft carrier after making the plane's first ever carrier landing using its tailhook system, off the coast of California, November 3, 2014. Chief of Naval Operations Adm.
The damage control following Greenert's comments was actually funny because what he said was in fact correct and even the USAF is coming around to the same conclusion now.
And Germany chose the SH over the F-35.
Germany officially knocks F-35 out of competition to replace Tornado
An official from the ministry confirmed that the F-35 is not a finalist in the competition, which seeks a replacement for the 90-jet fleet.
www.defensenews.com
As for India, you do not have to worry about us. We have our own plans for stealth and it's coming along quite well. For now we should be focusing on Switzerland and Finland. After all, they may both end up making a decision that you won't like.
Apples and oranges, they could cue a seeker (even a HMD could), but providing actually targeting info. for an OTS is a different matter.IRST could cue missiles since the 80s.
Zooming and targeting are pretty basic fuctions for electro-optical sensors, especially when the Rafale is also meant to carry DIRCM.
We do not yet know completely about the full Atoll hardware configuration. We now know there are two more sensors on the side bays. When you have more than twice as many sensors as the F-35, then the comparison ends right there.
Again, the design philosophy for the MAWS is different. It does what the F-35's EODAS does, only in a different spectrum. And then, it has 4 additional radars and various other sensors that the F-35 completely lacks.
In foggy or rainy conditions, the F-35's EODAS becomes completely useless. Whereas the Su-57's MAWS continues functioning since it's all-weather.
The fact that it can only manage 150 miles is enough proof. You are looking for things that aren't there.
The F-35 has plenty of issues when going at supersonic speeds, like overheating of avionics and degradation of the stealth coating.
For the F-35, as opposed to the F-22 where supersonic flight is baked into its tactics, the ability to fly supersonic is more of a “break glass in case of emergency” feature, said Bryan Clark, an analyst with the Hudson Institute and a retired naval officer.
The Pentagon will have to live with limits on F-35’s supersonic flights
The Navy's and Marine Corps' versions of the F-35 will have restrictions on how long they can fly at supersonic speeds because of a risk of damage to the tail section.www.defensenews.com
“Supersonic flight is not a big feature of the F-35,” Clark said. “It’s capable of it, but when you talk to F-35 pilots, they’ll say they’d fly supersonic in such limited times and cases that — while having the ability is nice because you never know when you are going to need to run away from something very fast — it’s just not a main feature for their tactics.”
In fact, going supersonic obviates the main advantages of the F-35, Clark said. “It sort of defeats all the main advantages of the F-35,” he explained. “It takes you out of stealthiness, it burns gas like crazy so you lose the range benefits of a single engine and larger fuel tank. When you go into afterburner, you are heating up the outside of your aircraft.”
That creates all kinds of signatures that can be detected by an adversary, Clark said.
They themselves think going supersonic is a bad idea for the F-35.
Just a second ago you didn't even believe the Rafale could supercruise. Dunno why you are comparing it with the Typhoon now. No one is saying the Rafale is better than the Typhoon at supercruise. And the Typhoon is only a participant in both tenders anyway.
The Rafale can supercruise, the F-35 cannot. Simply put, it's a bad idea for the F-35 to go sueprsonic, whereas for the Rafale supercruise is a design feature.
Zooming and actual optical magnification are not the same thing.
Yeah, it ends because the F-35's is better. Western electronics has been better than Russian electronics since forever.
The radar-based MAWS is probably in case the missile has finished burn. Certain IR wavelengths pass through fog. And your argument defeats itself, since if IR can't see through fog, the shot would need to use radar anyway, which the F-35 detects. UUV is just as vulnerable to to fog.
That was probably the mission profile that asked for 150 miles. You don't go from M1.2 to <M1.0 instantly, if it wasn't supersonic after 150 miles, then it wasn't maintaining M1.2 for 150 miles. This is simple math.
Sure it does. They are talking about signatures.
I said the Rafale couldn't supercruise with a full mission load, which involves drop tanks.
Er... If DDM-NG can cue DIRCM, then it can target missiles. This is elementary. *smh*
You are confused between zooming/magnification and resolution. Zooming is civvie speak for "variable magnification".
You are confusing that with just making the font bigger on your smartphone screen, which is a completely different thing. *smh*
UV is all-weather. It can see through clouds (water) the same way as fog (water). This is also elementary. *smh*
Yes, it can, with a belly drop tank. Never mind the fact that it has enough range to not need it anyway.
From Dassault:
Last paragraph.
More significantly, it can supercruise in dry power, even with four missiles and a belly drop tank.
In short it also means it can supercruise while carrying small PGMs.
Get it through your head the F-35C was meant to replace the F-18C not the F-18E.Forget it. You don't know anything about this subject.
You were obviously living under a rock.
Firstly, this is what they were dreaming of.
The near term goal is to replace half of the Super Hornet fleet, the older half, with the F-35C Joint Strike Fighter.After the F-35, the Navy Will Make Its Next Fighter Without the Air Force
The service has decided its fighter requirements are different than the Air Force’s.www.popularmechanics.com
It didn't happen because the USN pointed out the F-35C isn't capable of replacing the SH.
So, yes, they were so impressed by the F-35C that when Lock Mart proposed to make a more capable F-35C to replace the SHs for F/A-XX, the USN flatly rejected it.
Then they pointed out that stealth may be overrated.
A top US Navy top officer thinks that one of the F-35's most hyped capabilities is 'overrated' | Business Insider India
REUTERS/Mike BlakeA Lockheed Martin Corp's F-35C Joint Strike Fighter is shown on the deck of the USS Nimitz aircraft carrier after making the plane's first ever carrier landing using its tailhook system, off the coast of California, November 3, 2014. Chief of Naval Operations Adm.www.businessinsider.in
The damage control following Greenert's comments was actually funny because what he said was in fact correct and even the USAF is coming around to the same conclusion now.
And Germany chose the SH over the F-35.
You can argue it was politics, but it is what it is.Germany officially knocks F-35 out of competition to replace Tornado
An official from the ministry confirmed that the F-35 is not a finalist in the competition, which seeks a replacement for the 90-jet fleet.
As for India, you do not have to worry about us. We have our own plans for stealth and it's coming along quite well. For now we should be focusing on Switzerland and Finland. After all, they may both end up making a decision that you won't like.
The current order is for the Hornets, duh. But a modernised F-35C was offered to replace the SH, which the navy rejected.
Lol. You post a 2015 article and a 2019 article when back then the F-35C was delayed. Did you even read your own article? They aren't even going to use the 6th gen for deep penetration missions (that's the F-35C's job) but use standoff weapons. Also the USN 6th gen will share many commonality with the F-35c. Lol. You should read your own articles, bub.
USN Carrier loadout is going to be two squadrons of F-35C and two squadrons of their 6th gen fighter with a wing of UCAVs and E-2Ds.
Rafale is a dead plane (especially with Indian pilots) taking on chicoms with their advanced IADS and J-20s and soon J-31s. Get with the program you Indians are getting left behind in the jet fighter race and IAF chief is pulling claims out of his butt to make the IAF feel better from their inferiority complex and to calm the population. Stealth is the future and Europe, US, Israel, UAE, Russia and China know this very well except India, according to their IAF chief.
No, the USN-NGAD is being made for penetration missions and it is expected to do all the other missions the F-35 is supposed to do, but better. If you actually think about it, any USN carrier will be better off without the F-35C. 4 squadrons of NGAD will obviously be better than 2+2. Which is also why the USN may ultimately not end up with all their ordered F-35Cs.
A single-engine jet for a CATOBAR carrier means it's going to have a very short service life.
Rafale is a dead plane (especially with Indian pilots) taking on chicoms with their advanced IADS and J-20s and soon J-31s. Get with the program you Indians are getting left behind in the jet fighter race and IAF chief is pulling claims out of his butt to make the IAF feel better from their inferiority complex and to calm the population. Stealth is the future and Europe, US, Israel, UAE, Russia and China know this very well except India, according to their IAF chief.
The funny thing is both the USAF and USN agree with what the IAF chief said.
And you are the only one on the planet who is giving that much importance to the J-20 and the J-31. Even the Chinese are not.
As I said, you shouldn't worry about India, we have 2 ongoing stealth programs already. You should be more worried about why your precious 20-year ahead F-35 actually has to fight for first place rather than take first place by just showing up. Even if the F-35 wins, it's not gonna be funny to the Pentagon if the 80s designed Rafale is a very close second. And if you lose... let's just say you don't wanna go there.
@WHOHE do not engage in personal attacks or racial slurs. Please maintain civility.
From your article!
USAF and USN does not agree with IAF says that is your delusion you choose to believe.
And I'm not concern about J-20s and J-31s they are inferior to our F-22s and F-35s however against US 4th gen fighters I am concern and if I was an Indian or IAF fighter pilot I'd be VERY concern that chicom air force is flying more advanced fighters than India. J-20 and J-31 no matter how inferior they are compare to F-35 and F-22 they will get the first look and first shot against anything IAF flies.
Get this through your head... Every time Rafale competes with F-35 it loses. The Rafale only wins (sometimes) when the F-35 is not offered usually developing/poor countries. F-35s are made for first world nations who can afford to fly the best and most advanced fighter that has ever taken to the skies. India is not there yet which is why US offered F-16 and F-18E.
The NZZ article, you will notice that according to them it is not the Rafale that proved to be the best during the evaluation of Armassuise but the F-35. Still according to them, it was the F-35 that emerged victorious in the evaluation. On the other hand, the NZZ also says that this disturbs several members of the Federal Council because some want to buy a European aircraft and that it is as a result of this disagreement that there have been leaks. To me it doesn't matter if it was close what matters is the F-35 won the evaluation and Rafale is at its end when it comes to upgrading it to make it relevant for the future while the F-35 is just beginning. F-35 already surpassed the F-22 when it entered service in avionics and stealth the F-35 tech wise will be on par with USAF and USN NGAD when it enters service in 2030 for the foreseeable future.
USAF and USN does not agree with IAF says that is your delusion you choose to believe.
Lulz @ Indian stealth program. It took you decades to build an inferior 4th gen fighter in tejas, it took you decades to build an inferior tank that is already outdated and now we're supposed to buy that IAF will have their own 5th gen fighter? When in 2050? Tejas, Arjun use foreign tech and so will this AMCA when it flies in 2050... If it ever flies.
And I'm not concern about J-20s and J-31s they are inferior to our F-22s and F-35s however against US 4th gen fighters I am concern and if I was an Indian or IAF fighter pilot I'd be VERY concern that chicom air force is flying more advanced fighters than India. J-20 and J-31 no matter how inferior they are compare to F-35 and F-22 they will get the first look and first shot against anything IAF flies.
Get this through your head... Every time Rafale competes with F-35 it loses. The Rafale only wins (sometimes) when the F-35 is not offered usually developing/poor countries. F-35s are made for first world nations who can afford to fly the best and most advanced fighter that has ever taken to the skies. India is not there yet which is why US offered F-16 and F-18E.
The NZZ article, you will notice that according to them it is not the Rafale that proved to be the best during the evaluation of Armassuise but the F-35. Still according to them, it was the F-35 that emerged victorious in the evaluation. On the other hand, the NZZ also says that this disturbs several members of the Federal Council because some want to buy a European aircraft and that it is as a result of this disagreement that there have been leaks. To me it doesn't matter if it was close what matters is the F-35 won the evaluation and Rafale is at its end when it comes to upgrading it to make it relevant for the future while the F-35 is just beginning. F-35 already surpassed the F-22 when it entered service in avionics and stealth the F-35 tech wise will be on par with USAF and USN NGAD when it enters service in 2030 for the foreseeable future.
It's referring to something else entirely. What the AF-NGAD and B-21 are expected to do, the F-35 can never do.
But the Rafale is expected to do this, although not to the same range.
Lol. Actually they do. They say the same as well.
As I said, don't worry about India. Your information regarding Indian programs is very scant, you should try going to other threads and read up about it first.
Actually you should be worried. Because neither the F-22 nor the F-35 have the combat range to challenge the Chinese. Only the NGAD is expected to solve this problem. The land bases are too far away.
This is the first real contest between the two, genius.
India has asked for 4th gen jets. The IAF has already said that the jet needs to be fully operational.
"Winning the technical evaluations" is far too broad a statement. First off, it's just a media report, not an official report. Second, there are various reasons why an aircraft can win tech evals. For example, the Typhoon won MMRCA tech evals, but it doesn't change the fact that the Rafale is superior to the Typhoon for every single mission, which is as per the Swiss as well. The only reason the Typhoon won India's tech eval was because the IAF paid far too much attention towards performance rather than avionics, the Typhoon's supersonic performance was much better. Similarly, we need more details about the tech evaluations in Switzerland before coming to a conclusion, let alone the fact that we need an official report first.
And no, the F-35 is nowhere near the NGAD when it comes to tech. The design philosophy is completely different. Ask the IAF chief. In fact, when it comes to advanced technologies, the F-35 is already outdated. It was made for a time when the F-35 was expected to become fully operational in 2014, with FRP beginning in 2016. The F-35 should have been in the Block 5-10 development phase at this time. It should have been receiving significant hardware upgrades right now, including a GaN radar. Now pretty much all non-American 4th gen jets have technologies that the F-35 uses. Gripen E and Rafale F4.2 are a step ahead.
I see hillbilly boy here concentrate more on badmouthing the Rafale & run down Indian capabilities than post facts on why the F-35 is the most successful stealth fighter in the history of aviation.
For some unfathomable reasons , The French members here who almost always exhibit their touchiness on anything remotely critical of the Rafale , ready to defend it's reputation with their own life if necessary - all virtually of course ( @BMD can testify to this given the severe mauling he's been subjected to over the years ) , seem curiously subdued here (Wonder why ? ) with the result that the task of defending the Rafales seems to have fallen on the shoulders of a member who readily answers to the title of an unreliable narrator - a fantastic literary device .
@Bon Plan ; @Picdelamirand-oil ; @A Person
For some unfathomable reasons , The French members here who almost always exhibit their touchiness on anything remotely critical of the Rafale , ready to defend it's reputation with their own life if necessary - all virtually of course ( @BMD can testify to this given the severe mauling he's been subjected to over the years ) , seem curiously subdued here (Wonder why ? ) with the result that the task of defending the Rafales seems to have fallen on the shoulders of a member who readily answers to the title of an unreliable narrator - a fantastic literary device .
@Bon Plan ; @Picdelamirand-oil ; @A Person
I remember Rafale won technically the F15 in south Korea. Suddenly a special relation ship clause emerged....Lol. NGAD is not a result of F-35 failure stop pulling claims out of your butt. Swiss will select the F-35 and you will claim all sorts of BS reasons why Swiss selected the F-35. Just remember wherever the Rafail competes with F-35 it always loses. All those nations where Rafale has been selected recently the F-35 was not offered.
I remember a powerpoint F35 (ie with supercruise, with the F16 agility, nearly ready FOC...) won by 0,02 / 10 margin on Rafale in Netherlands. Real life F35 is not war ready (block 4 is now for 2027 at best), not agile, not able to supercruise.
About Swiss : we just have some days to wait young Jedi.
LM marketing....
some years ago an israeli air force general said exactly the same.... Stealth will vanished.